Re: Aggregate Course Competition WINNERS ON POST 137!!!

[Jonathan Webb]

Hole #   Course and Hole   Par   Yardage
1   Merion East - 1    4   360
2   National Golf Links of America - 2   4   330
3   Oakmont - 3   4   430
4   TPC Boston - 4   4   298
5   Pine Valley - 5    3   219
6   Muirfield - 6   4   469
7   Barnbougle Dunes - 7   3   120
8   Crystal Downs - 8   5   550
9   Prairie Dunes - 9   4   450
Total Front      35   3226
10   Riviera Country Club - 10    4   315
11   Royal Melbourne (Composite) - 11   4   439
12   Augusta National Golf Club - 12   3   155
13   North Berick - 13   4   347
14   Friars Head - 14   5   535
15   Cypress Point Golf Club - 15   3   135
16   Cypress Point Golf Club - 16   3   222
17   Old Course at St. Andrews - 17   4   455
18   Pebble Beach Golf Links - 18   5   543
Total Back      35   3146
Total      70   6372

[Steve Lang]

  So Ben,

Aren't you advocating building a Tour 18 style venue?   Seems you've created perhaps the biggest name dropping game in recent gca.com history..  how can this ever be reconciled and a winner chosen?

[Michael George]

Ben:

Since you created the string, you make the rules.  I have deleted all posts and included my most recent submission in the original post.  The technically challenged judge is safe.

[Mark Saltzman]

3. Merion 3 181

Disqualification!

I hit driver into the front bunker when I played 3 at Merion.  I don't hit it far, but I'm pretty sure it was longer than 180 yards.

[Michael George]

Steve:

I think the answer to your question is the same as to how the golf publications arrive at their rankings - purely subjectively - which is fine because all we are talking about here is golf courses.

[Ben Sims]

So Ben,

Aren't you advocating building a Tour 18 style venue?   Seems you've created perhaps the biggest name dropping game in recent gca.com history..  how can this ever be reconciled and a winner chosen?

Steve,

I'm not advocating name dropping, far from it.  I'm merely trying to advocate good design as a worthy combatant to the scourge of 'roided up behemoths of the last few decades.  But not only that, maybe even illustrate how overrated length is as an indicator of difficulty. 

However, even more important than either one of those ideas, is that there is and should be a clear difference between the golf that professionals play and that of recreational golfers.  Fun and camaraderie should be the requirements of the golf courses for the masses.  Not a disillusioned idea that they need or deserve to play the tight, long monsters that the pros play.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Hole #   Course and Hole   Par   Yardage
1   Merion East - 1    4   360
2   National Golf Links of America - 2   4   330
3   Oakmont - 3   4   430
4   TPC Boston - 4   4   298
5   Pine Valley - 5    3   219
6   Muirfield - 6   4   469
7   Barnbougle Dunes - 7   3   120
8   Crystal Downs - 8   5   550
9   Prairie Dunes - 9   4   450
Total Front      35   3226
10   Riviera Country Club - 10    4   315
11   Royal Melbourne (Composite) - 11   4   439
12   Augusta National Golf Club - 12   3   155
13   North Berick - 13   4   347
14   Friars Head - 14   5   535
15   Cypress Point Golf Club - 15   3   135
16   Cypress Point Golf Club - 16   3   222
17   Old Course at St. Andrews - 17   4   455
18   Pebble Beach Golf Links - 18   5   543
Total Back      35   3146
Total      70   6372

Seth Raynor   central new jersey   uphill par 4    small green. Have to love a course on Punchbowl lane. Fits well?

[Ed Brzezowski]

Ed

What is Morris County and please describe the hole.

Posted to wrong reply. Central Jersey, Seth Rayor, uphill smallish green. Have to love a course on punchbowl lane..  I need some new glasses, sorry for the error.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Here's my entry. I think I also might do one of just courses I've played as well as it's a fun exercise.

1. Kingsley Club - Par 5 - 610 yards
2. NGLA - Par 4 - 330 yards
3. Pasatiempo - Par 3 - 214 yards
4. Barnbougle Dunes - Par 4 - 299 yards
5. Merion - Par 4 - 418 yards
6. Riviera - Par 3 - 199 yards
7. Ballyneal - Par 4 - 352 yards
8. Royal Troon - Par 3 - 125 yards
9. Royal County Down - Par 4 - 490 yards

3037 yards - Par 34

10. Royal Melbourne West - Par 4 - 312 Yards
11. Pacific Dunes - Par 3 - 148 yards
12. White Bear Yacht Club - Par 4 - 383 yards
13. Pine Valley - Par 4 - 486 yards
14. Seminole - Par 5 - 512 yards
15. North Berwick - Par 3 - 190 yards
16. Cypress Point - Par 3 - 231 yards
17. The Old Course - Par 4  - 455 yards
18. Pebble - Par 5 - 545 yards

3262 yards - Par 35

6299 yards - Par 69

[Garland Bayley]

3. Merion 3 181

Disqualification!

I hit driver into the front bunker when I played 3 at Merion.  I don't hit it far, but I'm pretty sure it was longer than 180 yards.

Latest World Atlas has it at 219.

[Eric Smith]

Saltz and iGarly,

You guys are of course correct; I looked at an old card. It is currently 219 and going even longer, I believe, for 2013.

Better DQ me, Cap'n. I like my course too much to change it!

[Mark Saltzman]

iGarly,

awesome!

And yes, please disqualify him.

His entry is too good and I can't stand the heat.

Lawyered.

[Bill McKinley]

Made some changes to my original layout.  Changed #2 & #5 to satisfy par requirements and eliminate having 2 redan holes.

1. National  par 4 330
2. Old MacDonald par 3 180
3. Oakmont par 4 430
4. Bethpage Black par 5 522
5. Merion par 4 418
6. Seminole par 4 385
7. Pebble Beach par 3 107
8. Eastward Ho par 4 350
9. Pine Valley par 4 425

par 35    3147 yards

10. Riviera par 4 315
11. Muirfield par 4 354
12. Augusta National par 3 155
13. Augusta National par 5 510
14. Shinnecock par 4 445
15. North Berwick par 3 192
16. Merion par 4  428
17. Carnoustie par 4 433
18. Old Course par 4 357

par 35  3189

par 70  6336

[Guy Nicholson]

1. Prestwick, Scotland, 346 yards, par 4
2. Highlands Links, Canada, 447 yards, par 4
3. Pine Valley, United States, 180 yards, par 3
4. Lahinch, Ireland, 475 yards, par 5
5. Mid Ocean, Bermuda, 433 yards, par 4
6. St. Enodoc, England, 378 yards, par 4
7. Pebble Beach, United States, 109 yards, par 3
8. Oakmont, United States, 288 yards, par 3
9. Royal County Down, Northern Ireland, 486 yards, par 4

Par 34, 3142 yards

10. Royal Melbourne West, Australia, 312 yards, par 4
11. Shinnecock Hills, United States, 160 yards, par 3
12. St. Andrews Old, Scotland, 316 yards, par 4
13. North Berwick, Scotland, 387 yards, par 4
14. Royal Portrush, Northern Ireland, 210 yards, par 3
15. Augusta National, United States, 530 yards, par 5
16. Cypress Point, United States, 230 yards, par 3
17. St. Andrews Old, Scotland, 455 yards, par 4
18. Royal Durban, South Africa, 275 yards, par 4

Par 34, 2875 yards

Par 68, 6017 yards

Six par 3s: 109, 160, 180, 210, 230, 288
Ten par 4s: 275, 312, 316, 346, 378, 387, 433, 447, 455, 486
Two par 5s: 475, 530

Locations: Scotland (4), Canada (1), United States (6), Ireland (1), Bermuda (1), England (1), Northern Ireland (2), Australia (1), South Africa (1)

[Tom ORourke]

Just courses I have played, a little Philly heavy but still....
   Course         Hole   Par   Yards
1.   Lehigh         4   4   340
2.   Pine Valley                      11   4   390
3.   Tobacco Road      3   3   150
4.   Half Moon Bay Ocean                   18   5   530
5.   Reynolds Great Waters                    9   4   375
6.   Rolling Green      12   4   360
7.   Bethpage                                    14   3   160
8.   Overbrook                       14   4   305
9.   Springhaven       1   4   415
               35   3,025
10.   Torresdale-Frankford                   18   4   365
11.   Tobacco Road      11   5   535
12.   Pine Valley                       2   4   365
13.   Merion         13   3   130
14.   Mid Pines                       4   4   330
15.   Woodside Planation                    5   4   420
16.   Llanerch                       18   4   280
17.   Kiawah Ocean      17   3   190
18.   Lehigh         12   4   410
               35   3,025
               70   6,050

[Ben Sims]

Keep the courses coming!

I must say that i am impressed with Guy Nicholson's layout.  A par 3 longer than a par 4!  A par 4 longer than a par 5!  That's what I'm talking about!  he was also one of only a handful so far to not use #10 at Riviera.  Not sure whether to award or dock points for that.

But it doesn't matter what I think.  The judge diametrically opposes my view point in regards to college football, so he may hate Guy's course.

Oh, and yes, Eric Smith is DQ'd due to ineffective and lazy waiver application for his over yardage. 

[Niall C]

I drew this out on a banana skin for the shape of the coastline.....and it seems to work.  Cool thread Ben.

1 Machrihanish        Par 4         428  (great tee shot to start the day)
2 Royal Aberdeen     Par 5         507  (good chance for a bird with 2 accurate shots)
3 NGLA                  Par 4         426  (probably my favourite hole in America)
4 RCD                    Par 3         219  (back downhill after the Alps hole, even better view than the Redan at National!)
5 Portrush (Dunluce)Par 4         379  (cracking risk and reward drive and a wonderful greensite)
6 Royal Dornoch      Par 3         161  (after all the views a small target to sharpen the focus)
7 Pine Valley           Par 5         573  (longest hole on 'the course' something for the big boys and a real 3 shotter for most)
8 RCD                    Par 4         364  (just love this hole and it fits on the banana skin)
9 Renaissance          Par 3         138  (short 3 with a wild green and great bunkering, nice backdrop)

10 Maidstone           Par 4         362 (tough hole for its length, really like the elevated green and approach)
11 Gullane No. 1      Par 4         479 (good long, downhill 4 with another killer backdrop)
12 NGLA                 Par 4         435  (I just love the green here)
13 TOC                   Par 4         376  (you may be on a score but I like what it asks of you at this point in the round)
14 Maidstone           Par 3         129  (great short 3 as a breather before the finish)
15 North Berwick      Par 3         178  (couldn't not have this, I can see it out of my window!)
16 Pasatiempo          Par 4         365  (love the green)
17 Royal Dornoch     Par 4         390  (some find it fiddly but I like the strategy)
18 Pebble Beach       Par 5         543  (all world finish and a last chance to open the shoulders)

Par 70  6448 yds

I resisted putting some of my favourite holes as I wanted it to work in 'real life' in terms of coastlines....well, as much as possible.  I especially wanted the 4th hole at Kilspindie but I couldn't not have the 4th at RCD for my longer 3.

While a lot of my '300' holes are around the same number I think the variation in elevation and wind direction makes all of those holes play differently to the number on the card on any given day.  I was not too precious about having 300-320-340 etc.

Ah.  Just read the from the tips bit.  I had gone from the tees most people would play.  Back to the drawing board.

Simon

Just substitute the Postage Stamp for no. 8 on RCD and you should be OK.

Niall

[Eric Smith]

Oh, and yes, Eric Smith is DQ'd due to ineffective and lazy waiver application for his over yardage. 

I blame golfblog100.com 

[Guy Nicholson]

he was also one of only a handful so far to not use #10 at Riviera.  Not sure whether to award or dock points for that.

-1 for geographical tokenism. 

[Ben Sims]

Keeping the competition at the top.  In fact, besieging Ran to put a sticky on it.  Our judge lacks some basic clicking skills to take him into the past.  He doesn't do restorations.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

This is a course drawn from English Links only. Rye is not there because they don't have a card of the course on their website. These are all from the white medal tees in the hole order played by the members.

1. 427 yards par 4 Royal Liverpool
2. 489 yards par 5 West Lancashire
3. 173 yards par 3 Seaton Carew
4. 372 yards par 4 Silloth on Solway
5. 113 yards par 3 Saunton East
6. 406 yards par 4 Royal North Devon
7. 377 yards par 4 Formby
8. 494 yards par 5 Royal West Norfolk
9. 199 yards par 3 Berwick upon Tweed

Out: 3050 yards par 35

10. 334 yards par 4 Royal Lytham and St Annes
11. 362 yards par 4 West Cornwall
12. 181 yards par 3 Royal Birkdale
13. 341 yards par 4 Hayling
14. 533 yards par 5 Royal St George's
15. 168 yards par 3 St Enodoc
16. 508 yards par 5 Royal Cinque Ports
17. 182 yards par 3 Littlestone
18. 433 yards par 4 Wallasey

In: 3042 yards par 35

Total: 6092 yards par 70

[Jason Topp]

I suspect organizing a trip around Mark's hole selections would guarantee a fantastic experience.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Now an English inland eclectic. No Swinley Forest - you can't check yardages on their web site. This is a sub-6,000 yard par 68, beginning and ending, unusually, in short holes. White medal tees throughout. I think this would be a pretty tough course on which to match your handicap.

1. 217 yards par 3 Berkshire Blue Course
2. 305 yards par 4 Alwoodley
3. 339 yards par 4 Ganton
4. 460 yards par 4 Liphook
5. 148 yards par 3 Woodhall Spa Hotchkin Course
6. 540 yards par 5 Notts
7. 372 yards par 5 Luffenham Heath
8. 427 yards par 4 Huntercombe
9. 202 yards par 3 Brancepeth Castle

Out: 3010 yards par 34

10. 460 yards par 4 Sandiway
11. 322 yards par 4 Sunningdale Old Course
12. 418 yards par 4 Beau Desert
13. 230 yards par 3 The Addington
14. 343 yards par 4 Coombe Hill
15. 116 yards par 3 Cavendish
16. 510 yards par 5 Walton Heath Old Course
17. 354 yards par 4 Fulford
18. 152 yards par 3 Moor Park High Course

In: 2905 yards par 34

Total:  5915 yards par 68

[Greg Holland]

1 Shinnecock Hills - par 4 - 395 yards
2 Pinehurst No. 2 - par 4 - 503 yards
3 Wannamoisett - par 3 - 135 yards
4 Kinloch - par 4 - 328 yards
5 Camargo - par 3 - 180 yards
6 Royal Melbourne - par 4 - 428 yards
7 Plainfield CC - par 4 - 470 yards
8 Pine Valley - par 4 - 326 yards
9 Muirfield - par 5 - 505 yards

   Par 35, 3270 yards

10 Pine Valley - par 3 - 161 yares
11 Merion - par 4 - 370 yards
12 Fisher's Island - par 4 - 390 yards
13 ANGC - par 5 - 510 yards
14 Royal Dornoch - par 4 - 445 yards
15 Crystal Downs - par 4 - 320 yards
16 Cypress Point - par 3 - 233 yards
17 Oakmont - par 4 - 315 yards
18 Pine Valley - par 4 - 483 yards

   Par 35, 3227 yards

Par 70, 6497 yards

[Sven Nilsen]

1 Merion (Par 4) - 360 yds
2 Pine Valley (Par 4) - 368 yds
3 National Golf Links of America (Par 4) - 430 yds
4 Lahinch (Par 5) - 475 yds
5 Crystal Downs (Par 4) - 355 yds
6 Royal Melbourne West (Par 4) - 428 yds
7 San Francisco (Par 3) - 189 yds
8 Pebble Beach (Par 4) - 427 yds
9 Yale (Par 3) - 235 yds

Out - 3267 yds (Par 35)

10 Riviera (Par 4) - 315
11 Pacific Dunes (Par 3) - 148 yds
12 Barnbougle Dunes (Par 4) - 278 yds
13 Augusta National (Par 5) - 510 yds
14 Royal Dornoch (Par 4) - 459 yds
15 North Berwick (Par 3) - 190 yds
16 Cypress Point (Par 3) - 230 yds
17 St. Andrews (Par 4) - 495 yds
18 Royal Lytham & St. Annes (Par 4) - 410 yds

In -  3,035 yds (Par 34)
Total - 6,302 (Par 69)

Par 3's - 148, 189, 190, 230, 235
Par 4's - 278, 315, 355, 360, 368, 410, 427, 428, 430, 459, 495
Par 5's - 475, 510

The Redan and SF#7 are similar in scorecard length but I can't imagine many folks will be pulling the same club.  The same could be said for the Biarritz and the 16th.  The similarity in the lengths of holes 1, 2 and 5 is more than made up for by the distractions at each.  The 3rd at NGLA, the 6th at RMW and the 8th at PB play to different effective lengths, especially considering the nature of the tee shot on 8 and the approach required for each hole.  

General themes:

Holes 1 - 3:  an homage to 80 page threads
Holes 4 - 6:  the good doctor's influence
Holes 7 - 9:  Tupac v. Biggie
Holes 10 - 12:  short but sweet
Holes 13 - 15:  stand alone masterpieces
Holes 16 - 18:  a fitting close

I'd vote for an out and back routing with the predominant wind working with you on the front and hurting on the back.  I can see a St. Andrew's like loop after 8 returning for 11 along the coast.
  
Edit: to correct an egregious misspelling and converting the yardage of the 12th at Barnie from meters to yards.