[Sam Morrow]

Since there is the thread about public courses turning private and becoming masterpieces I will go the other way. What (if any) private courses would be regarded as not as good if public? For the sake of argument let's say the course condition is the same as when private.

[Chip Gaskins]

this will be fun...  thread of the year?  hopefully we will see some honest answers!

[JR Potts]

Unfortunately, I think the answer is, "almost every single one of them."

[Sam Morrow]

Unfortunately,  think the answer is, "almost every single one of them."

That was my initial thought.

[Mike_Young]

Augusta National for sure...

[JC Jones]

Probably a majority of the courses in the northeast save those in/near the Hamptons.

[jeffwarne]

Probably a majority of the courses in the northeast save those in/near the Hamptons.

I really don't understand this thread
or this quote.

So Sleepy Hollow and Quaker Ridge would be less regarded if they were public, but Maidstone and Atlantic wouldn't?

[Philippe Binette]

I wonder what the general public would say about garden city... but I don't think it would be less regarded

I don't think it's a matter of how they would be regarded... but how, if they would have be maintained as a public course for the last 50 years, what people would think of them.

I could see how the general public wouldn't see anything special in places like Merion... nothing spectacular, no lakes etc..

[PCCraig]

Less regarded by whom?

[Mark Saltzman]

I really don't think it's the 'top 100' courses that would be less regarded.  It is the local private clubs that would be.  Around Toronto there are a lot of really good private courses, and then there are a whole bunch of private, OK courses.  A lot of people are very impressed by the conditioning, atmosphere, ambiance, etc of the OK private club and elevate them and equate them to courses of much higher quality.

The great courses are great, public or private.

[Sam Morrow]

Less regarded by whom?

The same people who would regard certain public courses better if they were private.

[Sam Morrow]

I really don't think it's the 'top 100' courses that would be less regarded.  It is the local private clubs that would be.  Around Toronto there are a lot of really good private courses, and then there are a whole bunch of private, OK courses.  A lot of people are very impressed by the conditioning, atmosphere, ambiance, etc of the OK private club and elevate them and equate them to courses of much higher quality.

The great courses are great, public or private.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to say that or ask that question.

[Mac Plumart]

I think if an average everyday "retail golfer" got to play Seminole, they would not be impressed and would have very little interested in returning.

[Mark Saltzman]

I think if an average everyday "retail golfer" got to play Seminole, they would not be impressed and would have very little interested in returning.

I have heard from two such retail golfers the exact same opinion of Seminole..."it was nothing special."

I don't trust their opinions and would love to form my own, educated, opinion!

[Mac Plumart]

Of course you don't trust their opinion.  Seminole is special.  But it doesn't have the non-sensical b.s. that make people think a golf course is great when it actually isn't.

I thought this was the kind of thing we were going for in this thread.

[jeffwarne]

Of course you don't trust their opinion.  Seminole is special.  But it doesn't have the non-sensical b.s. that make people think a golf course is great when it actually isn't.

I thought this was the kind of thing we were going for in this thread.

Mac,
If you strip away the history and there is no clubhouse and you were to go around in a cart at Seminole,
can you explain to a retail golfer what he is missing at Seminole?

Do you think he'd have interest in returning if he felt he had gotten value for his money?

[Sam Morrow]

Of course you don't trust their opinion.  Seminole is special.  But it doesn't have the non-sensical b.s. that make people think a golf course is great when it actually isn't.

I thought this was the kind of thing we were going for in this thread.

Mac,
If you strip away the history and there is no clubhouse and you were to go around in a cart at Seminole,
can you explain to a retail golfer what he is missing at Seminole?

Do you think he'd have interest in returning if he felt he had gotten value for his money?

If you strip away the history and clubhouse do you still have a great golf course?

[Mac Plumart]

Great golf course.  YES!!

Value for his money?  That is a personal decision.  I think the "retail golfer" will think no.  As I don't think they'll understand the course.  Perhaps similiar feelings to people who don't like The Old Course at St. Andrews. 

[Chip Gaskins]

one sacred cow down, more to come...

[jeffwarne]

Great golf course.  YES!!

Value for his money?  That is a personal decision.  I think the "retail golfer" will think no.  As I don't think they'll understand the course.  Perhaps similiar feelings to people who don't like The Old Course at St. Andrews. 

I would venture a guess that every private course that has hosted a US Open prior to 2002 would be less regarded if they were public, given the USGA's track record of (not) awarding US Open to many public courses before bethpage (save Pebble).
i.e. many of these courses would not have been held in high regard by most golfers had they not held US Opens.
Shinnecock was totally off the radar prior to 1986

[Philippe Binette]

NGLA would be polarizing, love it or stupid would be the opinions

Maybe some private course that host major championships would finally be regarded for what they are... lol

[Ronald Montesano]

Here are the flaws with this thread...

1. We can only suppose what someone who is not I/us would think of a golf course. No one on this site is a retail golfer, at least the kind to which we often refer condescendingly, yet also the kind that keeps the industry alive. It's like the Red/Blue divide come election day. The liberal elite forgets that the Red mass is the one that usually defends our country and grunts its mills, factories, highways and other blue-collar work tasks. Let us not become a liberal elite GCA;

2. Said person's reaction might or might not be based solely on how well she/he played (I suspect it would);

3. Does Public status necessitate some specific fault/flaw? Do you really mean "crapped-out muni conditions wrought by a municipality that doesn't give a rat's posterior beyond making money and providing a minimal service to residents"?

4. Don't forget that none of you (nor I) was born with an innate sense of what is right about great golf course architecture. I've been consciously learning about GCA for 12 years and, as Patrick Mucci will confirm, still have much to learn. If a general public were exposed to what we consider to be great GCA, it would also need and deserve the same amount of time/learning curve to come to appreciate what was suddenly dropped into its lap.

[Sam Morrow]

Here are the flaws with this thread...

1. We can only suppose what someone who is not I/us would think of a golf course. No one on this site is a retail golfer, at least the kind to which we often refer condescendingly, yet also the kind that keeps the industry alive. It's like the Red/Blue divide come election day. The liberal elite forgets that the Red mass is the one that usually defends our country and grunts its mills, factories, highways and other blue-collar work tasks. Let us not become a liberal elite GCA;

2. Said person's reaction might or might not be based solely on how well she/he played (I suspect it would);

3. Does Public status necessitate some specific fault/flaw? Do you really mean "crapped-out muni conditions wrought by a municipality that doesn't give a rat's posterior beyond making money and providing a minimal service to residents"?

4. Don't forget that none of you (nor I) was born with an innate sense of what is right about great golf course architecture. I've been consciously learning about GCA for 12 years and, as Patrick Mucci will confirm, still have much to learn. If a general public were exposed to what we consider to be great GCA, it would also need and deserve the same amount of time/learning curve to come to appreciate what was suddenly dropped into its lap.

Aren't these things what make a thread like this fun Tricks?

[Carl Rogers]

I would imagine that if the Trump courses went public .... take away the high maintenance and the name and what would you have??

[Garland Bayley]

Clearly, you take away the Veblen goods aspect of most exclusive privates, they will be less regarded! Why? They are no longer Veblen goods!

As for the bottom tier privates, I think most people recognize them as nothing special. They are only a place to get an assured convenient tee time, and loose nothing in quality recognition by going public.

I have already picked out the public I will move my game to when I get old and have less need to take advantage of the extremely economical per play deal I get now from lots of play at a bottom tier private. The public is clearly the better course.

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