[Keith OHalloran]

On a different thread, Mac said that the routing at BD was awkward but ultimately lead to good hole locations, so he was ok with it. So the question is, are you ok with an awkward routing that leads to a good hole? If so, is it proportinate? Would you take a really wierd routing that ends with the 14th at sand hills, but a less awkward routing to the if you ended at a hole that was not as great? Any examples?

[Mac Plumart]

Keith...

One course I am really interested to play is Highlands Links in Canada.  I haven't seen many pictures or heard too many people talk about it...but one aspects I've read about is its routing.  I read that there are some long green to tee transitions, but they make the those walks like nature walks and they are actually a positive aspect of the course.  Anyway, that is what I've read and I am interested to check it out.

And as for my 2 cents on what is acceptable on green to tee transitions, it centers on the flow of the course.  If the course feels like it starts and stops, then I don't like it.  If it flows...I'm okay with it.  For example, I've played many courses (mainly courses designed for golf carts) where you play a hole (and the hole can be really good) but then you stop, get in a cart or walk across a neighborhood street, through someone's yard, to get to the next tee box.  This kills the flow as mentally I shift out of playing golf for the time I make the transition and then have to get re-settled into golf.  I really don't enjoy this at all.

You bring up Sand Hills.  To me, that routing is wonderful.  Hole out, begin your ride/walk to the next hole.  The transitions aren't too long, however sometimes they are up hill, sometimes they are a bit long, but the hole time the vibe of the course and flow is maintained.  The environment never changes, so mentally you stay in the round the entire time. 

Again, 2 cents...take it or leave it.

[Keith OHalloran]

Take it 

[Mac Plumart]

Keith...

another good one came from a thread awhile back when they talked about the routing of TPC Sawgrass.  You play 16 and as you get closer to the hole you see 17 (which of course you've been thinking about for about a week straight leading up to playing the actual hole) and after holing out on 16 you walk all the way across the back of the pond/property to 16 tee box.  The walk isn't short (not crazy long either) but the whole time 17 looms and lurks and taunts and intimidates. 

Really, really well done. IMO.

[Keith OHalloran]

If it is really well done, is it actually an awkward routing? Or is it a well planned walk?

[Mac Plumart]

Oops.  I thought by awkward you meant really cool and neat.  You mean the other kind of awkward.  

[Joe_Tucholski]

So in my mind a bunch of things can make a routing awkward.  I also figure what is awkward to one person won't be to another.  From some recent rounds here are some examples of what I consider awkward.
1) A very long distance between tee to green (Kapalua Plantation)
2) A walk backwards essentially on the hole you just played (like 12-13 at Rustic Canyon and 6-7 at Bandon Dunes)
3) A walk between housing developments (Monarch Dunes or LaQuinta Mountain)
4) A walk through the city (Lincoln Park)
6) A really extreme site that makes it just really tough (Wolf Creek)
7) A green to tee walk where you have no idea where to go and could easily end up playing the wrong hole (Pacific Dunes...not sure if this is really the case but there were multiple marshals out to tell me where to go and I consider that awkward).

Really only two of these are a real buzz kill for me.  First is the very long distance between tee to green.  I can't really say how far is too far, and it might not even be a distance but as Mac suggested a combination of distance and setting.  The longer the distance the better the setting must be for it to be ok.  In the case of Kapalua the long cart rides really killed it for me.  I really like the 5th hole and I like the 6th hole but the long cart ride on a road sticks out in my mind and killed the feeling of the round.  I'm guessing it's a road so they can shuttle players in vehicles for the PGA tour but I would be less upset if the cart ride was an intimate ride through the jungle vegetation.

In regards to long distances I also find that I don't really care if there is a long walk/ride from 18 back to the clubhouse.  I also am pretty open to a really long walk between the 9s.  I guess I feel it's natural for a break to occur here and I often mentally reset between 9's (have a terrible front and think of the back 9 as a different round and play well...or the reverse).

The second awkward routing that I really dislike is through housing developments...usually these trips are on the longer side so it's kind of like first with a bad setting.

The other examples are awkward in my mind but aren't really that big a deal to me as long as they lead to a good hole.

[Tim Gavrich]

The walk from the first green to the second tee at the incredibly charming Fenwick Golf Course in CT takes you down a block of the little village, and if you look to your right, you'll see the late Katherine Hepburn's house on the water.  It's a unique walk among all the golf courses I've played and is awkward in that it's really the only lengthy such walk on the course, but that walk is so charming that it's absolutely and immediately excusable.

[Ian Andrew]

You can tolerate cross over’s and long walks for quality holes. While the flow may not ideal, the golf is worth the interruptions. That can still be an excellent routing because the decisions were made for better golf.

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