Your Top 20 Favourites (or Best) in ENGLAND

[Kevin Pallier]

Sean

By my count there's close to 150 at Muirfield so you may be right 

Nah - I love North Berwick too 

[Sean_A]

delete

Ciao

[Jim Nelson]

I just returned from a golf trip to England (my first) and played Walton Heath Old, Swinley Forest, Sunningdale Old and New, Royal St. Georges and Royal Cinque Port. i am thoroughly impressed with the quality of courses in England and would highly recommend such a trip to friends.  Considering the wet and cold spring, the courses were in pretty good shape.  Here's my question.  I asked just this question to a local and the list was topped by Royal Birkdale yet RB is barely mentioned here.  What gives?  I was thinking a great trip would be to start out at RB and others in that area of interest, swing thru London over a weekend and take in a course or two plus a day off, then head down to RSG and Deal again.  The relative absence of Royal Birkdale may make me rethink the first part of the trip. 

ps.  Looks like spring has finally arrived in England.

[Sean_A]

Jim

Birkdale is a very good course very much in the mould of modern design which in terms of quality probably makes the bottom half of the top 25 in England.  I think its lack of quirk holds it back some, for me anyway.  Still, for anybody interested in English championship courses its fairly high on the must see list.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

I think Royal Birkdale is overrated by most people -- as most championship sites are.  In fact, I prefer all of the other Open rota courses in England [Royal St. George's, Royal Lytham, and Royal Liverpool] to Birkdale.  I'm a bit surprised that none of those make Sean's top 20, but I'm even more surprised that he left out St. George's Hill, Sunningdale, Walton Heath and West Sussex.

No question to me that the depth and breadth of English courses is astounding.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Tom,

The high number of 'No Doaks' on Sean's list might suggest that a short tour of some of England's lesser known gems is due in anticipation of the updated Confidential Guide.

You are assured of a warm welcome at Reddish Vale! 

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

The high number of 'No Doaks' on Sean's list might suggest that a short tour of some of England's lesser known gems is due in anticipation of the updated Confidential Guide.

You are assured of a warm welcome at Reddish Vale!  

Duncan:

I've actually been to Reddish Vale, back in 2000.  Sadly, though, it is the only one of those "no Doak" courses I've seen.  I am trying to make time for a trip such as you describe, but my clients in New Zealand and China and France and Chicago seem to all think they have first dibs this summer.

I thought there were a number of cool golf holes at Reddish, but there's no way it would make my list of the top 20 courses in England.

[Sean_A]

Tom

The thing about the best 20 in England is that there would be a ton of similarity if quality is the only criteria.  I spose if I had to try for the best 20 my list would be

St Enodoc
Sunny Old
Sandwich
Rye
Deal
St Georges Hill
Formby
Swinley Forest
Birkdale
Sunny New
Woking
Hoylake
Saunton East
Burnham
Brancaster
Addington
Princes
Alwoodley
Beau Desert
Kington

For me, this list isn't anywhere near as interesting as my favourite 20.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Tom

The thing about the best 20 in England is that there would be a ton of similarity if quality is the only criteria.  I spose if I had to try for the best 20 my list would be

St Enodoc
Sunny Old
Sandwich
Rye
Deal
St Georges Hill
Formby
Swinley Forest
Birkdale
Sunny New
Woking
Hoylake
Saunton East
Burnham
Brancaster
Addington
Princes
Alwoodley
Beau Desert
Kington

For me, this list isn't anywhere near as interesting as my favourite 20.

Ciao

Sean:

Thanks.  I did not think our tastes were that far apart, and they aren't.  It makes a lot more sense if you are thinking of this as a "Gourmet's Choice" list rather than a "top 20" list.  I have not seen Yelverton, but couldn't really imagine you were rating it above Sandwich.  Which, as it turns out, you're not.

[Sean_A]

Tom

The thing about the best 20 in England is that there would be a ton of similarity if quality is the only criteria.  I spose if I had to try for the best 20 my list would be

St Enodoc
Sunny Old
Sandwich
Rye
Deal
St Georges Hill
Formby
Swinley Forest
Birkdale
Sunny New
Woking
Hoylake
Saunton East
Burnham
Brancaster
Addington
Princes
Alwoodley
Beau Desert
Kington

For me, this list isn't anywhere near as interesting as my favourite 20.

Ciao

Sean:

Thanks.  I did not think our tastes were that far apart, and they aren't.  It makes a lot more sense if you are thinking of this as a "Gourmet's Choice" list rather than a "top 20" list.  I have not seen Yelverton, but couldn't really imagine you were rating it above Sandwich.  Which, as it turns out, you're not.

Tom

The melt is there are several courses on the Best list which I am not overly bothered if I ever visit again.  I can't say that for a single course on the Favourites list. You tell me which is more important.  I spose the bottom line is about half on the Best are not great courses anyway, so no need for a fuss.

Ciao

[Duncan Cheslett]

I thought there were a number of cool golf holes at Reddish, but there's no way it would make my list of the top 20 courses in England.

It wasn't on Sean's list either until he came back for another look!

[Sean_A]

Duncan

Reddish Vale has been on and off - a bubble course.  Now that some headway is being into clearing the course out I think Reddish Vale will remain in unless I happen to very quickly see a bunch of other cool English courses or if the green fees rockets up as we dicussed it should.  They are definitely out there, but I am a lazy bugger

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Oh god I hate these but I did join in before it started!  


(On checking there’s only 4 of these that I’ve only played once.  And any course that shows me all its guiles on one playing ain’t worthy of a top 20 place, but conversely  it does mean a no of places that I have only played once probably didn’t get a fair crack...)


Those I ‘m determined to play again.

Addington
Alwoodley
Berkshire Red
Burnham and Berrow
Formby
Ganton
Huntercombe
Princes, shore and Dunes.
Royal Ashdown Forrest
Royal Cinque Ports
Royal Liverpool
Royal St Georges
Royal West Norfolk
Rye
Saint Georges Hill
Siloth
Stoneham
Sunningdale Old
Swinley Forrest
Woking


Found it very hard to get this list down from 30.

Never played Wentworth, St Enedoc, Saunton East, Notts, Kington,  Broadstone, Beau Desert  and more than  half of Sean’s list (tee hee).

Royal Worlington goes in "with a bullet" and I loved Liphook too. So out go Ashdown Forrest and Stoneham.

With another play I suspect Sauton East would push my old favourite Princes out.   As I said before there's a bunch of courses competing to get in.

However a return to Woodhall Spa leaves me thinking I got it right first time and it's all world top 50 ranking has me puzzled.

[Ben Stephens]

Tom,

I think I have to disagree with you regarding Birkdale. Having played Sandwich, Hoylake, Lytham and Birkdale. I preferred Birkdale to Hoylake which I thought had too many mundane holes in the old racecourse area and Lytham which was ok. I can remember an earlier discussion that we had on Birkdale that it was the direction of the holes and the doglegs that did not appeal to you. Out of the 4 English courses in the Open rota Birkdale has the strongest finish and the better set of par 3's.

Still have Sandwich as the top course in England for the Open followed by Birkdale, Lytham and Hoylake. I think Hoylake is too overrated and I have played better links courses in England.

Muirfield and Carnoustie like Birkdale have holes going in different directions.

Cheers
Ben

Jim:

I think Royal Birkdale is overrated by most people -- as most championship sites are.  In fact, I prefer all of the other Open rota courses in England [Royal St. George's, Royal Lytham, and Royal Liverpool] to Birkdale.  I'm a bit surprised that none of those make Sean's top 20, but I'm even more surprised that he left out St. George's Hill, Sunningdale, Walton Heath and West Sussex.

No question to me that the depth and breadth of English courses is astounding.

[Wayne Freeman]

Kevin ...  I've got your top 10 scheduled in late Sept/Oct. plus Rye, Walton Heath, and Deal...   very excited.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

For what it is worth I love two courses that are regularly considered overated by some on this site.
Namely Royal Birkdale and Woodhall Spa, both of which I would always place in my world top 30.
The bunkering at Woodhall is to me as good as anyhwere I have ever played,still waiting on the trip to Melbourne, I think the greensites are brilliant and although the course is perhaps short by modern day cometition standards, so what.
I love the firm and fast playing surfaces and the overall fairness of the course as a test of golf.

Royal Birkdale I like for many of the same reasons, I think number 12 is the best par three in links golf, the first one of the best opening holes anywhere and I actually like its lack of quirk, which comes as somewhat of a relief over many links courses.
As much as I like Sandwich, there is simply too much quirk that can govern where the ball ends up.
Now before anybody blasts me, I know that is what links golf is all about, I grew up playing it, but sometimes too much of agood thing is simply that too much, Sandwich is over that line for me.
Muirfield, Carnoustie and Brikdale, less quirk more reward for good shots.
Not so sure about the 17th green at Birkdale, that is a little overdone, but the variety of four pars is just delightful.
Numbers one throught three to open up your round are brutal and number 6 could be as tough as any par four anywhere.
If you like quirk, plenty of it on numbers 9/10 even though it may be missing elsewhere.

The run of courses along that coastline,Formby,Hillside, S&A, Wallsey, West Lancs etc..a vacation by themselves.

[Pete Buczkowski]

Tom

The thing about the best 20 in England is that there would be a ton of similarity if quality is the only criteria.  I spose if I had to try for the best 20 my list would be

St Enodoc
Sunny Old
Sandwich
Rye
Deal
St Georges Hill
Formby
Swinley Forest
Birkdale
Sunny New
Woking
Hoylake
Saunton East
Burnham
Brancaster
Addington
Princes
Alwoodley
Beau Desert
Kington

For me, this list isn't anywhere near as interesting as my favourite 20.

Ciao

Interesting list Sean.  The only course that I am confident you would include on both your favorites and best of lists is Ganton.  Day rate under 100 quid (twilight only 45), very welcoming membership, and true one-off interesting course.  It is a bit raw too which adds to the intriuge.  Playing in the Saturday Captain's game is among my top couple experiences in golf.

[David_Tepper]

" I was thinking a great trip would be to start out at RB and others in that area of interest, swing thru London over a weekend and take in a course or two plus a day off, then head down to RSG and Deal again.  The relative absence of Royal Birkdale may make me rethink the first part of the trip."

Jim Nelson -

Regardless of whether Birkdale is under- or overrated, one could argue (and I am!) that the stretch of coastline from Hoylake to Lytham-St. Anne's is the best concentration of links golf in GB&I (which would make it the best in the world, I suppose). You could easily spend a week based in Southport playing Hoylake, West Lancs, Formby, Southport-Ainsdale, Hillside, Birkdale, Hesketh & Lytham-St. Anne's and feel like it was time very well spent.

In addition, you would not be very far from Manchester and some very good inland courses in that area.. If you fly into and out of Manchester, you can save London and the south coast for your 3rd visit.

DT 

[Sean_A]

Pete

You and that Mark guy are killing me. 

David

Northwest England links doesn't have near the pull for me that southeast England links does.  For a guy not looking to play for week, the likes of  Sandwich, Deal & Rye backed with Littlestone and Princes is tough to beat.  For a guy looking for a mega tour with relatively little travel the southeast is impossible to beat when the heathlands are included. 

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

Sean -

You could very well be right about the southeast being more attractive than the Lancs coast. It could be a case of the quality of the former trumping the quantity of the latter. I have played along the Lancs coast but have yet to journey to the southeast.

On the other hand, for those whose bucket list includes playing the Open Rota courses, the 90-mile or so stretch from Hoylake to Birkdale to Lytham-St. Anne's is rather efficient for fulfilling that goal.

DT

[Sean_A]

Sean -

You could very well be right about the southeast being more attractive than the Lancs coast. It could be a case of the quality of the former trumping the quantity of the latter. I have played along the Lancs coast but have yet to journey to the southeast.

On the other hand, for those whose bucket list includes playing the Open Rota courses, the 90-mile or so stretch from Hoylake to Birkdale to Lytham-St. Anne's is rather efficient for fulfilling that goal.

DT

David

No question the Open rota courses of the northwest are big pull and the depth of links is impressive - and you left out poor old Wallasey - heavy sigh for poor old Wallasey.  For some, this area is the king of England and perhaps all of GB&I.  I was only trying point out that it isn't a done deal.

Ciao

[Brent Hutto]

Being a person for whom "depth" is less important than some, I'd have to go with Sean's southeast coast preference. I tend to think in terms of two courses with maybe an option for a third on a given trip.

I've made a trip in recent years to the southeast to play Sandwich and Deal (bonus round at Princes) and a few years early played Birkdale and Formby in the northwest. While not a one of those courses was less than compelling, the duo of Royal St. Georges and Royal Cinque Ports is the first pick hands down. Not really even close.

So I think it really comes down to whether you want to check multiple Open Rota courses off your list or not. I also think that the town of Deal is a better place to spend a week non-golf-wise than any place I know of on the Lancs coastline.

[Jud_T]

Sean,

While all of your favorites are intriguing, from the subset of the two lists it seems the must-sees are:

Addington
Beau Desert
Burnham
Kington
Rye
St. Enodoc
Woking

[Jim Nelson]

" I was thinking a great trip would be to start out at RB and others in that area of interest, swing thru London over a weekend and take in a course or two plus a day off, then head down to RSG and Deal again.  The relative absence of Royal Birkdale may make me rethink the first part of the trip."

Jim Nelson -

Regardless of whether Birkdale is under- or overrated, one could argue (and I am!) that the stretch of coastline from Hoylake to Lytham-St. Anne's is the best concentration of links golf in GB&I (which would make it the best in the world, I suppose). You could easily spend a week based in Southport playing Hoylake, West Lancs, Formby, Southport-Ainsdale, Hillside, Birkdale, Hesketh & Lytham-St. Anne's and feel like it was time very well spent.

In addition, you would not be very far from Manchester and some very good inland courses in that area.. If you fly into and out of Manchester, you can save London and the south coast for your 3rd visit.

DT 

That is an impressive list of courses and I get the point.  A trip to itself indeed.  I just finished a trip which included Swinley Forest, Sunningdale Old and New, Royal St. Georges,  Royal Cinque Port and Walton Heath Old.  One person couldn't make it, so knowing he will want to when healed, I was thinking we could make another trip with some of the Northwest courses.  Sounds like it should be two separate trips based on all the info.  I have taken two trips to Ireland (Southwest and Northeast with Dublin) and two to Scotland (St. Andrews/East Lothian and Aberdeen/Inverness) while barely sniffing England.  With my last trip in the books, I can say I was thoroughly impressed with English golf and don't really understand why American golfers, in general, barely give it a look.  Wonder why that is.  Lack of promotion?  More difficult access to the courses?  Don't know but golfers are missing out on some great tracks if they don't give England golf a chance.

[Pete Buczkowski]

This thread underscores what I have felt for a long time...England may be the best country in the world to visit for golf.  There are so many areas to visit and such diversity.  It's probably blasphemy but I remember my trips to England more fondly than Scotland.