Your Top 20 Favourites (or Best) in ENGLAND

[Scott Warren]

James,

It would be great to plan a Buda around Pulborough and Crowborough Beacon.

"The Battle of the Boroughs"!

[James Boon]

Scott,

We have such a list of possible Buda venues, we could be booked up to 2030 with a little forward planning! 

I know Pulborough was one you enjoyed while over here, so valuing your opinion as I do, I'm certainly keen to make the effort and get there!

Cheers,

James

[Mark Chaplin]

West Sussex and Hayling Island are the natural bed partners. Crowborough is over an hour away which is a trek for BUDA.

[Sean_A]

Sean

I always toss a coin between it and Royal Liverpool as my least favourite modern Open venue. I think there is a distinct gap between them and the others. That said - I like it's nuances though.

No spectacular seaside views to divert ones attention. A P3 to start. B2B P5's at 6 & 7. Six P4's to finish. Grassy hollows and dells throughout.

I find it more of a plotters course and whilst it could do with some filling in of some bunkers I dont mind the specific focus on hitting the ball into tight areas for the best approach to the greens. It really is a test of patience and whilst it doesn't have the great highs of many other current Open venues the course has a marked degree of consistency.

Kevin

That is interesting.  I look at the Open rota differently.  I see Sandwich and TOC as the superior two of the lot with Hoylake coming in a distant third - more respected than loved by myself.  All the others I would sort of lump together as more or less of the same quality (maybe place Turnberry & Birkdale at the top of this heap) - not too far behind Hoylake with the exception of Lytham.  I find the course so contrived and dictating with bunkering to be a complete mess.  There are some good holes, but not nearly enough for me to have much time for this sort of design.  

Chappers

Hayling & Stoneham are the perfect bedfellows.  I don't know if these two are well enough known or good enough to entice Pests, but they make a very good pair.

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean - I'm zeroing in on Pulborough being the course people will travel to then adding a links!

[Mark Pearce]

I look at the Open rota differently.  I see Sandwich and TOC as the superior two of the lot with Hoylake coming in a distant third - more respected than loved by myself.  All the others I would sort of lump together as more or less of the same quality (maybe place Turnberry & Birkdale at the top of this heap) - not too far behind Hoylake with the exception of Lytham.  I find the course so contrived and dictating with bunkering to be a complete mess.  There are some good holes, but not nearly enough for me to have much time for this sort of design.  

Given that all the other empirical evidence suggests we have very similar tastes in golf courses your take on the Open rota always astonishes me.  I can see RSG and TOC being in the top tier and understand that my view that Muirfield is at least the equal of both isn't universally held.  I also like Hoylake more than many.  But how anyone can prefer Hoylake to Muirfield is quite beyond me.  I know you don't much like Carnoustie but having Turnberry and Birkdale heading Carnoustie and Muirfield?  That's just perverse.

[Sean_A]

I look at the Open rota differently.  I see Sandwich and TOC as the superior two of the lot with Hoylake coming in a distant third - more respected than loved by myself.  All the others I would sort of lump together as more or less of the same quality (maybe place Turnberry & Birkdale at the top of this heap) - not too far behind Hoylake with the exception of Lytham.  I find the course so contrived and dictating with bunkering to be a complete mess.  There are some good holes, but not nearly enough for me to have much time for this sort of design.  

Given that all the other empirical evidence suggests we have very similar tastes in golf courses your take on the Open rota always astonishes me.  I can see RSG and TOC being in the top tier and understand that my view that Muirfield is at least the equal of both isn't universally held.  I also like Hoylake more than many.  But how anyone can prefer Hoylake to Muirfield is quite beyond me.  I know you don't much like Carnoustie but having Turnberry and Birkdale heading Carnoustie and Muirfield?  That's just perverse.

Mark

I can throw you a bone and call Muirfield head of the chasing pack.  As you know, I am not thrilled by Muirfield, but know its a good course.  My main issue is that if the bunkering is the best thing about a course, and I think this is the case for Muirfield, than I am not likely to rank it with the best. 

Ciao

[John Mayhugh]

Ran's post really drives home how strong English golf is.  He has 20 courses ahead of Ganton.  Of those he lists ahead of Ganton I would put 10 below it and there are seven I haven't played.  However, in each case I can see the arguments that might be made.  Any course that might, arguably, be better than Ganton is a great course and one that any golfer should be happy playing for the rest of their life.

Amazing, really.  I've played 17 courses in England (listed below in approximate order played), and though I haven't ranked them it's easy to see a large number of the courses I haven't played fitting into my top 10. 

West Sussex
Rye
Swinley Forest
Royal St. Georges
Royal Cinque Ports
Walton Heath Old
Kington
Painswick
Burnham & Berrow
Woking
Beau Desert
Notts
Cavendish
Ganton
Flamborough Head
Alwoodley

[Will Lozier]

In no particular order and limited to courses I have played, here are 15 I think are viable candidates with a couple being stretches* to actually be in the Top 20 in the entire country...

Alwoodley
Ganton
Deal
RSG
Rye
St. Enodoc
Sunningdale Old
Wentworth East*
Wentworth West*
Swinley Forest
Woking
West Hill*
The Addington
Walton Heath Old
Camberley Heath*

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin

That is interesting.  I look at the Open rota differently.  I see Sandwich and TOC as the superior two of the lot with Hoylake coming in a distant third - more respected than loved by myself.  All the others I would sort of lump together as more or less of the same quality (maybe place Turnberry & Birkdale at the top of this heap) - not too far behind Hoylake with the exception of Lytham.  I find the course so contrived and dictating with bunkering to be a complete mess.  There are some good holes, but not nearly enough for me to have much time for this sort of design.  

Sean

Hoylake doesn't have any significant highlights for mine (other than say 1 / 8 / 10). Lytham I think is close to the most overbunkered links course I've seen.

I have TOC, Muirfield and Sandwich as my favourite Open Venues. Plenty of great holes, variety and interesting recovery shots to please me. Interested as to your take on Muirfield though - I didn't think it's focus was on it's bunkering ?

[Sean_A]

Kevin

That is interesting.  I look at the Open rota differently.  I see Sandwich and TOC as the superior two of the lot with Hoylake coming in a distant third - more respected than loved by myself.  All the others I would sort of lump together as more or less of the same quality (maybe place Turnberry & Birkdale at the top of this heap) - not too far behind Hoylake with the exception of Lytham.  I find the course so contrived and dictating with bunkering to be a complete mess.  There are some good holes, but not nearly enough for me to have much time for this sort of design.  

Sean

Hoylake doesn't have any significant highlights for mine (other than say 1 / 8 / 10). Lytham I think is close to the most overbunkered links course I've seen.

I have TOC, Muirfield and Sandwich as my favourite Open Venues. Plenty of great holes, variety and interesting recovery shots to please me. Interested as to your take on Muirfield though - I didn't think it's focus was on it's bunkering ?

Kevin

The greens aren't of particular interest nor is the land.  For me, Muirfield is make or break around its terrific bunkers.

I would be interested see more top 20 English lists or revamped ones. 

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Earlier this year we played Pulborough, Hayling and Littlehampton basing ourselves in Ardundel which is a historic town with great pubs and restaurants. Perfect BUDA fodder with shortish drives between courses. Interestingly Pulborough ensure during the interview and confirmation of membership if you wish to join you accept they will never be anything other than a two ball club.

As an aside i'm not a Hoylake fan but was very impressed with an Army major who shot a 76 in last year's Army championships, not a bad score considering he had a dodgy start going out of bounds five times and racking up a 14. He played the remaining 17 holes in six under par!

[Bill_McBride]

As an aside i'm not a Hoylak fan but was very impressed with an Army major who shot a 76 in last year's Army championships, not a bad score considering he had a dodgy start going out of bounds five times and racking up a 14. He played the remaining 17 holes in six under par!

Damn those cops!   

[Bill_McBride]

I've only played 19 courses in England, but consider myself very fortunate to have played the high quality and/or fun these courses represent:

(In no particular order)

Hoylake
Wallasey
Delamere Forest
Beau Desert
Alwoodley
Painswick
Rye
Littlestone
Deal
Sandwich
Princes
Liphook
Hankley Common
Walton Heath Old
New Zealand
Huntercombe
Burnham & Berrow
Rye #2 course, lots of fun
Broadway

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Royal Birkdale...8+
Woodhall Spa...8+
Ganton...7
Sunningdale Old...7
Walton Heath Old...7
Swinley Forest...7
Burnham and Berrow...6+
Royal St Georges...6
St Georges Hill...6
Royal Lytham...6+

[Tony_Muldoon]

Royal Birkdale...8+
Woodhall Spa...8+
Ganton...7
Sunningdale Old...7
Walton Heath Old...7
Swinley Forest...7
Burnham and Berrow...6+
Royal St Georges...6
St Georges Hill...6
Royal Lytham...6+

It just goes to show, to each his own...

If you threw Lytham away (  ) I’d be pretty happy with that list; if it was in reverse order. 

Four don’t make my top 20.  But then I’ve never seen a course from the prospective of a very skilled competitive golfer like yourself. The two courses you rate highest Michael, just don’t seem to have the fun factor to me.

[Bart Bradley]

Royal Birkdale...8+
Woodhall Spa...8+
Ganton...7
Sunningdale Old...7
Walton Heath Old...7
Swinley Forest...7
Burnham and Berrow...6+
Royal St Georges...6
St Georges Hill...6
Royal Lytham...6+

Can you explain your opinion of Royal St. Georges?  In what ways is Walton Heath Old, for example, a better golf course?

Thanks,

Bart

[Sean_A]

Granted, there are very few responses, but from a rough count it seems like SANDWICH, SWINLEY and surprisingly for me ALWOODLEY get the most mentions.  

There is a bit of a drop off then follows DEAL, RYE, WALTON HEATH OLD, WOODHALL SPA and very surprisingly HUNTERCOMBE - I ask again, is Huntercombe a first tier course covered in trees?

There is another drop off with NOTTS, BURNHAM & BERROW, GANTON, HOYLAKE, BRANCASTER, BERKSHIRE RED, SAUNTON EAST, WEST SUSSEX, ST ENODOC & SUNNY OLD.  No real surprises other than Sunny Old comes in quite late.  

We now get into the territory of spin the bottle as the remainder of the courses don't really get enough mentions; the best of the rest being: Royal Lytham, Royal Birkdale, Addington, St Georges Hill, Woking, St Georges Hill & Liphook.  

I am very surprised Formby and Sunny New didn't do better as they fit quite comfortably with most above.  

Looking at the terrific Unofficial GCA Rankings things between the two look fairly steady.  At a glance it looks like Silloth, Birkdale, Woking, Sunny New and Lytham are all considered top 20 by UGCAR (and not far off in this thread) in addition to all the courses mentioned above except for Burnham, Huntercombe and Addington.    

So, were Huntercombe and Liphook badly overlooked by the Unofficial GCA rankings?  How bout Alwoodley (21)?  Are Birkdale and Lytham really all that?  I don't need to ask about Formby - I know the Unofficial group got it well wrong with this course.  

Out of all the courses mentioned Queenwood intrigues me the most.  AA, can you elaborate on its qualities?

Ciao

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Sean,

I was going to ask you about Formby, as you've been very complimentary of it in the past. Why doesn't it make your list?
Is it £££, when it should be ££?

[Sean_A]

Sean,

I was going to ask you about Formby, as you've been very complimentary of it in the past. Why doesn't it make your list?
Is it £££, when it should be ££?

Donal

Cha-ching.  However, Formby does run a very good dormy house deal; 2 games (over two days) and b&b for £175.  I think this is excellent value if you have enough time for two days of golf. 

I don't think any of the other English courses (not included in my top 20) I think architecturally very highly of offer a comparable deal in high season, but I may be wrong (maybe Princes?).   

Ciao

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Sean,

I'd be interested in seeing your "Top 20 in England (if £s were not a factor)"

Some months back you gave us your top 100; I can't recall if it was a bang for your buck based list or not.

[Sean_A]

Donal

I could give you a list, but it wouldn't mean anything to me.

Ciao

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Ben your list is far closer to my reality. I think Hoylake, Fornby and Wallancy should be in there somewhere higher than near the bottom too. You can drop any of your last 3 to 5 to make room.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin

The greens aren't of particular interest nor is the land.  For me, Muirfield is make or break around its terrific bunkers.

I would be interested see more top 20 English lists or revamped ones. 

Sean

What do you make of the bunkers on #8 at Muirfield ?

[Sean_A]

Kevin

The greens aren't of particular interest nor is the land.  For me, Muirfield is make or break around its terrific bunkers.

I would be interested see more top 20 English lists or revamped ones. 

Sean

What do you make of the bunkers on #8 at Muirfield ?

Kevin

I never said the scheme couldn't do with a bit trimming down.  #8 is wildly over-bunkered - no question.  Muirfield could probably lose 50 bunkers and the course wouldn't be any worse off, however, every good spot for a bunker is utilized - hard not to with 150 of the bloody things.  You can have Muirfield, I will keep North Berwick - tee hee.

Ciao