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Jud_T

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One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« on: October 29, 2011, 11:09:09 AM »
My daughter is considering applying to the University of St. Andrews, so we may visit in the spring.  Ironically, she's the only family member that doesn't play golf.  While she and I can walk the Old Course on Sunday and get a round in on the Himalayas, the primary purpose of the visit would obviously be to check out the University.  I'm thinking I may be able to sneak away for a single round while she's interviewing and sitting in on classes.  As I won't have much time flexibility, TOC is probably out of the question.  For reference I've played TOC, Carnoustie and Kingsbarns.  If you were in my position, where would you play?  Is there any reason NOT to play the New Course? (didn't George Peper say it was the best course in town?).  Would anyone in their right mind choose to check out the Castle instead?  Or go back to Kingsbarns since it was probably one of my worst rounds in the past decade and as a result I have little memory of it?  Eden?  All comments including non-golf suggestions would be much appreciated (I'm guessing beers at the Dunvegan isn't at the top of her list of things to do).
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 11:15:42 AM by Jud Tigerman »
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Eric Smith

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 11:16:03 AM »
Did you lose your Confidential Guide?
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Jud_T

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2011, 11:22:55 AM »
Quote from: Eric Smith on October 29, 2011, 11:16:03 AM
Did you lose your Confidential Guide?

No.  He gave both the New and Eden a 5.  I'm guessing Kingsbarns would rate significantly higher (7-8?), but I've played it and prefer to play the old school courses when in the hood.  Also the closer to the University the better, given the circumstances.  The Castle seems like a love/hate affair.  The only Kidd course I've played is Bandon Dunes and it ain't my favorite.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 11:28:53 AM by Jud Tigerman »
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Michael George

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2011, 11:27:18 AM »
Jud:

You had me at your daughter applying to University of St. Andrews.  That is genius and should be on some list as to how to get to Scotland to play golf.  I am getting brochures for my oldest right now.

In answer to your question, I always say play another course over a course that you have already played.  "New" would be the concensus - my guess.
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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Jud_T

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2011, 11:31:36 AM »
Quote from: Michael George on October 29, 2011, 11:27:18 AM
Jud:

You had me at your daughter applying to University of St. Andrews.  That is genius and should be on some list as to how to get to Scotland to play golf.  I am getting brochures for my oldest right now.

In answer to your question, I always say play another course over a course that you have already played.  "New" would be the concensus - my guess.

Michael,

Aside from a student being able to get a Links Trust card at the student rate (170 pounds per annum!), the University is quite good, a bit easier to gain admittance to and less expensive than comparable private schools on this side of the pond.
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Eric Smith

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2011, 11:34:12 AM »
Jud,

Certainly an exciting time for your daughter. Can't even begin to imagine when it's my time to step into your shoes and send my girls off to college. I love the idea you and your family are exploring and wish you the best.

My CG post was emoticon free but I promise you I was smiling when I typed it. Cheers.
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Adrian_Stiff

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2011, 11:43:03 AM »
Castle course is the one I want to try.

TOC-Castle-New-Jubilee-Dukes-Eden-Torrance-Devlin-Strathyn-Balgove is how I would order them* I reserve my right to change the position of The Castle course after I have properly played it.
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Jud_T

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2011, 11:44:47 AM »
Adrian,

Thanks.  I'd certainly be interested to see the Castle if for no other reason than to see what all the fuss is about.
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Michael George

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2011, 12:06:25 PM »
Jud:

I have heard great things about the University.  I am sure that your daughter has worked very hard to get to this point.  

Good luck.  
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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Jud_T

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2011, 12:33:43 PM »
Michael,

Thanks.  It's quite a stressful process for many kids that needn't be.  There's plenty of great schools out there and we have to remember it's about the kid's journey, not our own.  So many parents are out of control with regards to applying to college that you can't believe it.  On the one hand it's incredibly difficult to get into a lot of the name schools these days, much more so than when I went to school back in the dark ages.  On the other hand, if one looks beyond the highest pedigree and best geographic locations, there are a lot of great schools out there.  And a happy and motivated kid from a B+ college stands a much better chance than an unhappy kid with an ogre of a stage mother (or father) with an Ivy League degree.
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2011, 01:10:50 PM »
New course for traditional links experience.... Castle course for checking out modern architecture.... Eden course for fun two and a half hour round last thing in the evening (i.e. at least an hour after last "official" tee time)
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Stan Dodd

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2011, 01:47:54 PM »
Jud,
Try the New for sure and then the Eden IMHO.
The Castle is a good potatoe field ruined.
My good friend has 2 kids at St. Andrews what a great college town. 
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Phil McDade

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2011, 02:50:22 PM »
Jud:

I can't offer comparisons to the courses in the list, but two that I played I think you'd enjoy -- the Balcomie course at Crail (the old one, not Hanse's new one), or the Eden.

The Eden, of course, is quite close by, right next door to TOC, and because of the depth of choices in the area, doesn't get a ton of traffic -- easily walkable in 3 hours or so, I'd guess, and some very good Colt greens (ignore the silly pond on the back nine). Crail Balcomie is great fun, not a long trip down there from St. Andrews, and of the courses I played, was maintained in the truest sense of links golf -- hard-running turf, wind almost always present, some old-fashioned architecture, and a fair amount of quirk.

It's not golf, but I also think a visit to the British Golf Museum in the Old Town is well worth the time.
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Bill McKinley

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2011, 03:13:41 PM »
I would go with Crail Balcomie or or give Kingsbarns another chance.  But Crail is very fun.
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Ulrich Mayring

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2011, 03:25:55 PM »
In St Andrews proper I'd also recommend the Eden. There are many reasons:

* £40 is unbeatable in St Andrews.
* On the 3rd hole you can hit over TOC, which plays as out of bounds to the Eden.
* The 4th is a fantastic seaside hole.
* The best views of the town outside TOC.
* The 5th is the best par 3 in St Andrews.
* The lake on 14.
* The weakest 18th in golf history.

Ok, so the last two are more "you have to see it to believe it" ;-)

Ulrich
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Tom Kelly

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 03:47:02 PM »
The New Course.
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Steve Salmen

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2011, 04:13:07 PM »
Without question I'd play Elie.  The 12th is one of my top 5 favorite holes in the world.
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Jud_T

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2011, 04:15:55 PM »
Thanks for all the suggestions guys.  I suppose it may come down to exactly how pinched for time I am. 
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Michael Goldstein

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2011, 04:20:32 PM »
Elie!
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John Crowley

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2011, 04:24:19 PM »
I have played most of those previously mentioned. Do not go anywhere near the Castle course. The Jubilee is arguably the best course of all. Crail Balcomie is a very good option fun and quirky.
Enjoy!
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Carl Johnson

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2011, 04:56:25 PM »
If you want to stay on the St. Andrews Links, I'd recommend the Jubilee.  Otherwise in Fife, I'd recommend Elie (The Golf House Club).
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BCrosby

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2011, 06:07:36 PM »
The advice above is surprising. I would have thought the New would would be the consensus pick.

It's first couple of holes are weak, but it then turns into a pretty good golf course.

I've not played the Eden, but Ulrich's comments make me want to. If only because it sounds like a course with an extraordinary range of holes from the really good to the simply awful. To think, if Steel hadn't made his changes, Eden would be just another great Colt course. ;)

Bob  
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 06:10:28 PM by BCrosby »
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2011, 06:15:38 PM »
The New or the Jube would be a great bet, they're both good golf courses, but EVERY GCAer should - no, MUST - play the Eden at least once. The spirit of Harry Shapland lies there. Ignore the small area of unsuitability and revel in those BRILLIANT greensites and you will have a great day. Count me in!!!
best,
FBD.
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Ed Brzezowski

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2011, 06:48:21 PM »
Quote from: Ulrich Mayring on October 29, 2011, 03:25:55 PM
In St Andrews proper I'd also recommend the Eden. There are many reasons:

* £40 is unbeatable in St Andrews.
* On the 3rd hole you can hit over TOC, which plays as out of bounds to the Eden.
* The 4th is a fantastic seaside hole.
* The best views of the town outside TOC.
* The 5th is the best par 3 in St Andrews.
* The lake on 14.
* The weakest 18th in golf history.

Ok, so the last two are more "you have to see it to believe it" ;-)

Ulrich
you think 5 is better than 9 on the new course?
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: One Round in St. Andrews- Not TOC
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2011, 10:46:30 PM »
If you are a true history nut play the Eden. If you want the toughest test play the Jubilee. If you want a delightful round of golf on a course second only to the Old, play the New. in bad weather the ninth on the New is as brutal as it gets.

bob
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