[Howard Riefs]

Maybe an ignorant comment on my part Tim.  I'm basing it on the thought that the difficulty of the hole is the green which is lower down on the list of hdcp determinants, as opposed to distance and hazards, but I may be overstating this...

I'm pretty ignorant on this topic, so wasn't trying to dispute as much as learn more.  I have a very layman's understanding of how handicaps are assigned.  I didn't realize there was an order or priority to handicap determinants.  Would love to hear more from someone that has been involved in handicapping a course.

Background on allocation of handicapping strokes for holes is in Section 17 of the USGA's Handicap System Manual:

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-17/

[Dean Stokes]

Ben, thank you for trying to assist with photo sharing....I am trying hard!!!! lol.

[Patrick Kiser]

So those with a problem with the pond, blame Mike Keiser - something I will never do because: (1) I love the pond, and (2) he provided to the golfing world an amazing place and helped provide a platform where great architects like Kidd and Doak would have more opportunities to build great courses and I would have more opportunities to play great golf.

Ron Whitten threw Trails under the bus for the pond when the course first was open for play.

The lake has matured into the most natural/organic, best "fake lakes" I've ever seen. I love hole #11 and the setting is very tranquil with a massive green encouraging approaches from the left.

This hole is one of the reasons I love Trails.

The lake doesn't do it for me at all, but that approach cut in from the left sure does.  What a cool shot into that green.

They did the lake thing too at Clear Creek, but they made up for it with a nice right to left approach.  I miss Clear Creek...

[Jud_T]

Ben, thank you for trying to assist with photo sharing....I am trying hard!!!! lol.

Dean,

I use Tinypic.  Download photos and paste link between the image button icons on our site.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I would think that is why Golfweek has so many raters. It allows for a honest statistical profile on a course to be developed. One guy, who for whatever reason lost it, will not adversely impact  a courses rating. Also one never knows if he is a first year rater who really has not learned the process. Hopefully after reading and listening to a few more speakers architects and Brad he will gain some insight. This is a subjective process. However I am hard pressed to think anyone would honestly say that course should be plowed up.  I think Trails has the best set of par 3's at the resort. I also think they would make any list of best par 3's.

[William_G]

So those with a problem with the pond, blame Mike Keiser - something I will never do because: (1) I love the pond, and (2) he provided to the golfing world an amazing place and helped provide a platform where great architects like Kidd and Doak would have more opportunities to build great courses and I would have more opportunities to play great golf.

Ron Whitten threw Trails under the bus for the pond when the course first was open for play.

The lake has matured into the most natural/organic, best "fake lakes" I've ever seen. I love hole #11 and the setting is very tranquil with a massive green encouraging approaches from the left.

This hole is one of the reasons I love Trails.

The lake doesn't do it for me at all, but that approach cut in from the left sure does.  What a cool shot into that green.

They did the lake thing too at Clear Creek, but they made up for it with a nice right to left approach.  I miss Clear Creek...

Clear Creek?? Are "they" C & C?

Not sure what you are lamenting with the "lake thing", as this lake fits in...see above..LOL

[Patrick Kiser]

So those with a problem with the pond, blame Mike Keiser - something I will never do because: (1) I love the pond, and (2) he provided to the golfing world an amazing place and helped provide a platform where great architects like Kidd and Doak would have more opportunities to build great courses and I would have more opportunities to play great golf.

Ron Whitten threw Trails under the bus for the pond when the course first was open for play.

The lake has matured into the most natural/organic, best "fake lakes" I've ever seen. I love hole #11 and the setting is very tranquil with a massive green encouraging approaches from the left.

This hole is one of the reasons I love Trails.

The lake doesn't do it for me at all, but that approach cut in from the left sure does.  What a cool shot into that green.

They did the lake thing too at Clear Creek, but they made up for it with a nice right to left approach.  I miss Clear Creek...

Clear Creek?? Are "they" C & C?

Not sure what you are lamenting with the "lake thing", as this lake fits in...see above..LOL

You can not recover from a lake.  I'm just not into lakes around a green in general.  See my signature part 

Yes, Clear Creek is ... correction ... was a C&C, but it is no longer open.  Hard times...

[William_G]

Pat,

How about oceans?

You realize that recovery shots are immediately preceded by bad shots, LOL.

Thanks...Love Trails!

[Garland Bayley]

Pat,

How about oceans?

You realize that recovery shots are immediately preceded by bad shots, LOL.

Thanks...Love Trails!

How many greenside oceans have you seen?

[Jeff Doerr]

I think one simple change at BT....



An electric funicular that quietly shuttled you to the 14th tee would add a lot.

[William_G]

Pat,

How about oceans?

You realize that recovery shots are immediately preceded by bad shots, LOL.

Thanks...Love Trails!

How many greenside oceans have you seen?

My favorite is #7 at PB... or the second shot on #4 at Pacific... lol

[Garland Bayley]

Pat,

How about oceans?

You realize that recovery shots are immediately preceded by bad shots, LOL.

Thanks...Love Trails!

How many greenside oceans have you seen?

My favorite is #7 at PB... or the second shot on #4 at Pacific... lol

I hope you have seen more than two, but I doubt you have seen many.
Next, how many of these greenside oceans were constructed by the golf architect?

[William_G]

Garland

hahaha, you are correct I don't see many as I keep it on the short grass most of the time...

I also enjoy recovery shots, especially fantasstic ones, but they all require my hitting a bad shot immediately prior

Love the "wet 3"

obviously a discussion of built versus found is due another thread

moving on

thanks

[Jim Franklin]

Pat,

How about oceans?

You realize that recovery shots are immediately preceded by bad shots, LOL.

Thanks...Love Trails!

How many greenside oceans have you seen?

My favorite is #7 at PB... or the second shot on #4 at Pacific... lol

I hope you have seen more than two, but I doubt you have seen many.
Next, how many of these greenside oceans were constructed by the golf architect?

The Old Course.

[Don_Mahaffey]

After 36 yesterday at BT I'm laying down in front of the dozer.  I'm all for live and let live...to each his own and all that but I don't get how any serious golfer can dislike that course.   Only thing I can imagine is it's hard to get around without recording a crooked number and low handi cappers don't like that possibility.   

[Mike_Trenham]

After 36 yesterday at BT I'm laying down in front of the dozer.

Occupy Bandon, count me in.

[William_G]

After 36 yesterday at BT I'm laying down in front of the dozer.

Occupy Bandon, count me in.

+++1, LOL

[Paul Richards]

When I read titles to threads like this one, I remind myself why I spend so little time these days on GCA.

 

[Mac Plumart]

Paul...

you should read more than just the title, there are some good points raised and some good discussion about the hole.

[Michael George]

Paul:

If you read the first post, it was from Jim Franklin indicating that a friend of his made this statement and that he thought he was crazy.  The thread became about what is right and wrong about Bandon Trails.

However, I think the discussion on this board is excellent.   

[PThomas]

I think BT is terrific!

[William_G]

Paul...

you should read more than just the title, there are some good points raised and some good discussion about the hole.

agreed, I think the discussion about the land available and the decisions to use it as such are very enlightening as to what it takes for GCA to become reality...

for instance the aspect of holes 7-13 all being sandcapped as they are through the forest as opposed to 1-6 and 14-18

thanks

[Bill_McBride]

I think one simple change at BT....



An electric funicular that quietly shuttled you to the 14th tee would add a lot.

Funny, my first course, Indian Valley in Novato, Marin Co., Calif, had a similar funicular, also from the 13th green to 14th tee!

[Patrick Kiser]

I think one simple change at BT....

An electric funicular that quietly shuttled you to the 14th tee would add a lot.

Funny, my first course, Indian Valley in Novato, Marin Co., Calif, had a similar funicular, also from the 13th green to 14th tee!

Bill,

It's been a while for me, but I thought Indian Valley still had this.  No?

[Michael George]

If you check out Ran's write-up on Kirtland, it has a carriage car up from 17 green to 18 tee. 

However, it does not have the Swiss flare of this one.  Does this car ride have the yodeling music ala "The Price is Right"?

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