Ron Whitten's review of Friars Head & Hidden Creek

[Jimmy Muratt]

Ron Whitten just posted his review of both Friar's Head and Hidden Creek Golf Club on Golf Digest.com. He got to play with Bill Coore at both courses.  

Here is the link....
http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/critic/index.ssf?/courses/critic/hiddencreek.html

He seemed to really enjoy both courses and the minimalistic approach that Coore & Crenshaw are admired for.  

[John_Conley]

Thanks for sharing.

Ron used to offer up a decimal score like American Bandstand did with hit dance singles.  While he didn't do that here, I sense that they tied.

[Scott_Burroughs]

John,

Whitten got rid of the decimal rating system about 2 years ago, by my calculations.  Probably too many course owners got pissed off for 'low' ratings.

[H._Wethered]

John Conley

I got an entirely different impression and thought that Ron was dodging that very issue.  If they tied in Ron Whitten’s mind then he would have just said that rather than dodging the question.  I would suggest that one of the 2 courses must have been better, but Ron didn’t want to express that opinion either out of sensitivity to his friend, Bill Coore, or the people involved with the “lesser” course.  Perhaps the better approach would have been to write about them separately so that he could express his opinions about them in absolute rather than relative terms.

[Nigel_Walton]

Herbert Warren Wind and Bernard Darwin are rolling around in their graves. Is this really the state of architecture journalism today? Did Mr Whitten say anything substantive in this piece? Is Hidden Creek even in the same league as Friar's Head?

Ran Morrissett for head of the Golf Digest rating process!

[A_Clay_Man]

There's only gonna be one review this treehouse is looking forward to, and that is happening right now. Yes, the emperor is in the area, as I write and can see his face now playing the tenth at FH.

[THuckaby2]

I thought that was supposed to be hush-hush, Adam.

But now that the cat is out of the bag, yes, the world is waiting for that one... and even more, for what he might have to say about certain others in the area.

TH

[Steve Lapper]

With no attempt to preempt the Emperor, the article seemed to me to be less an attempt to survey the actual courses and more a running dialogue of Ron's trip with Bill (their excellent adventure).

As someone who has played both courses multiple times and who's admiration & bias for both runs very high, the reader (who will likely never see either) is left with a mere teasing taste of the course's characteristics.
Only one or two paragraphs(out of  14) are devoted to each and a critical mistake was made. The 10th green at FH is one of the larger greens on the course, just superbly hidden and deceptive in its reveal. I'm surprised he didn't mention much of the other holes as the rolling ninth and short 5th. Both readily surprise most first-timers.
   I guess Ron Whitten was a little overcome by the fog to say the least.
   His assessment of Hidden Creek was a bit better (probably less fog and paid more attention to his own game). Steve Kay's notation of the cartpath is spot on and Roger has heard that from near everyone by now. I'm just not sure Ron would have noticed had Kay not pointed it out. All in I am less than enamoured with Whitten's abilities and other than his pulpit and venue, I dare to say he is vastly less worthy than the majority of posters here!

[RJ_Daley]

I found it interesting in the way RW revealed his criticism of the 4th hole cart path location by conversation with Steven Kay.  I am not certain if that was an attempt at self deprication by recounting how the cart path placement was not initially considered by him and had to be pointed out to him by Kay; or, if it was some other way of RW gently prodding Bill Coore about it.  However, from the pictures in Ran's write-up of HC here on GCA, the path isn't glaringly apparent unless one looks closely at the first pic of the redan, and I assume the second pic is taken from the path as it curls infront.  I'd like to know how much it is apparent and/or distracting in reality, and if it was placed there for technical reason's, if it is objectionable at all.

I have to agree that the concept of no yardage - only par on the scorecard at FH is a bit over the top, if the yardage books and caddies are available.  And, since it is a very private member course, what is the difference in revealing the yardage after one has played it a time or two?  I much prefer the notion of yardage with no par at ND.  

I very much agree with Nigel's and Slapper's remarks.

[JakaB]

It was a sad day when Ron Whitten stoped posting on this site...who can he write to but his audience..the write up fit the format....if you really want to know what he thinks take the time to look him up and ask..until then take that magazine for what it does best and get your honest opinions here....where else can you hear a take on the overnaturalization of nature...though after further review I am starting to back away from that stance because I don't really find the cleaned out dunes near the greensites to be natural at all...playable and enjoyable yes..but questionably natural.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Dick,

I noticed what you did on the 4th hole from the GCA write-
up, but from the tee, it certainly can be seen, although it
does look like a sand path, not a concrete one:

[Steve Lapper]

The cart path on the 14th at HC is really just a case of aesthetics as it seems to wind down a bit to avoid the native brush uncleared on the right hand and it glares obvious because of the stature of the hole...it is one of the most dramatic and defining at HC and comes so early, but never leaves your mind.

  The card at FH is a direct result of minimalism meets temporary (or maybe permanent??). The course will likely never (and never should be) marked by plate or marker and will almost always play per windspeed and direction...quite akin (with good reason) to Sand Hills..Either way who needs o read #'s when you can ask?

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

who can he write to but his audience..the write up fit the format....

Jakab,
I disagree.

When writing a review of two of the more private modern courses in a column that has often highlighted public courses, who is the audience? If you are writing a review on a private course, who is the audience? Why do they demand less?

Many of Whitten's other reviews don't read like diaries of his round. Consequently, that is the reason I have read them. Check out Raptor Bay for an example.

[Matt_Ward]

Is the purpose of a course critique to inform or conform?

I read the piece and I was hoping for much more than what was presented in terms of actual course details and then a commentary / viewpoint to support one's position.

When people get "too close" it can sometimes be most difficult to provide the kind of independent review that's often called upon and what is really sought by readers.

P.S. I have to agree with slapper -- the necessity of such a critique boggles me because since the courses are mega private the likelihood of Joe Sixpack and Mary Wineglass actually playing there is no better than their odds at playing PV, Cypress or any other similar type private club. I would hope such reviews would highlight the public side of the ledger because of the access issue IMHO.

[Dan Kelly]

It was a sad day when Ron Whitten stoped posting on this site.......if you really want to know what he thinks take the time to look him up and ask.

I don't mean to be a smart-aleck, JakaB -- but I believe the record will show that Mr. Whitten stopped posting on this site when people were ASKing, here, about his evidence that Bethpage Black was designed not by Tillinghast, but by Burbeck.

I, for one, was disappointed that he failed to answer those questions.

[Nigel_Walton]

Slapper,

What is the relevance of the appearance of the SCORECARD to the architecture? I would say the comment would be analagous to saying "The new Matisse exhibit at the Met is great, but I really don't like how their new mailbox matches the doorway to the museum."

Absurd.

[Dan Kelly]

Q: Why is most "beat" sportswriting no damned good?

A: Because the writers are too close to (and dependent on) their subjects.

[Tim_Weiman]

I agree with the view taken by Nigel Walton and others. It sounds like Ron Whitten had a couple nice days playing golf, but his article hardly represents the finest golf architecture journalism. Golf Digest would have done better to outsource this article to Golfclubatlas.com and simply use Ran’s review.

[JakaB]

Ron played with the owners of both of these courses...maybe they didn't want a full blown critique printed...maybe he respected their requests....maybe just maybe private clubs have the right to remain just that...private.   Honestly I was a little dissapointed the write up included the address of either club...whats the point of telling people where Friars Head is located...I can see Hidden Creek seeing how they are looking for members...and reading between the lines I would go so far to say the the whole article is motivated for that very reason with Friars Head just going along as a favor to good friends....it just was not the time or the place for an architectural review.

[TEPaul]

Friar's Head and Hidden Creek and which one is better? PSHAW!! They're both terrific golf courses and terrific architecture and they're both very different from one another which appears to be Coore's first fascination with the two courses that were under construction together and opened together. Why this fixation with which one is better? Will someone join either or seek to play either because he heard it was better than the other? Whitten should concern himself with analyzing and writing about the architecture of each course, why it's good or not good, period--comparing them isn't important!

[Tim_Weiman]

JakaB:

I thought Ron Whitten was the architect editor for Golf Digest. If it wasn't the time or place for an architecture review, what was he doing? Doesn't Golf Digest do that very thing - with both public and private courses?

[Steve Lapper]

Slapper,

What is the relevance of the appearance of the SCORECARD to the architecture? I would say the comment would be analagous to saying "The new Matisse exhibit at the Met is great, but I really don't like how their new mailbox matches the doorway to the museum."

Absurd.



Nigel,

Exactly! I was just answering RJ's query of having only par on the card...I agree completely and think a conversation with a caddy is far more compelling!

slapper

[RJ_Daley]

Gents, I am not talking about minimalism of a scorecard as an architectural theme.  It just seems silly to me that a scorecard omits the yardage at a private club.  How many times do you need to play it to know the yardage and have a pretty good feel for the club differences with consideration for the wind?  Without the yardage, it seems to me to be a cheeky insider-members advantage over his guests when playing a fun little match.  Sure, you as the newcomer-guest can ask the caddie to club you.  But, it just seems to me that providing a yardage for the one time or infrequent player is a courtesy to that person.  Whereas, I believe like Dan King has often espoused, that par is more irrelevant on the card than yardage.  As for the analogy to an artr exhibit and enjoying it in the museum, I think it is more helpful for the user to have those synopsis signs next to the painting to give the viewer a short history and comment about the artwork because like most, one goes there to observe and learn, and didn't know everything before they arrived to enjoy the exhibit.  I really don't think the mailbox thing is comparable.  Heck, we could be real quaint and just hand the players a blank card and pencil and tell them to figure it all out for themselves and just write down the scores of each hole and add em up.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Friar’s Head is stuffy because it doesn’t have yardages on its scorecard?  How silly is that?

The scorecard at Friar’s Head is one of the most simple and elegant scorecards I have ever seen.  It was designed to give enough room to KEEP SCORE for 4 players and 3 matches which I have never seen on any other scorecard because they are so cluttered with information that is useless to anybody but first time golfers.  Dick, I don’t perceive that there’s any attempt to hide the yardage.  They just intend to provide it in a different way.  What’s the difference if you get the yardage of the hole from a scorecard or a yardage book or a well trained caddy for that matter?  Ron Whitten was playing with the founder, the pro and the architect so he certainly had access to whatever information he needed!   Anyways, when was the last time you looked at the card for the yardage of a hole that you have played a number of times? I stopped looiing at that card for yarages at Rustic Canyon about after my first round

I’m told that the final yardage book will provide the yardage of each hole from the back of each tee box.  So if you want to know the yardage of the hole, it will be right there in the YARDAGE book.  It’s not done yet, but I’m anxious to see it because I was told that it will have drawings of each hole in the hand of Bill Coore himself!  My understanding is that the temporary yardage book didn’t have hole yardages because some of the back tees weren’t even built yet.  Remember, the place isn’t even open yet, in fact, if you want to get right down to it, the course is still growing-in around many areas.  

Maybe they should have just told Ron Whitten not to come until everything is done! But I have to tell you, anyone who thinks the can understand Friars Head enough after one round to write about it, must be thinking in a fog.

Ron Whitten thinks the golf course is 6700 something yards and I’m pretty sure that it is longer than 6900 yards and that’s just to the middle of the greens and they could very easily set the golf course up to play 7100 or even 7200 yards if they wanted to.

Friar’s Head is doing so many different things that you really need to find out why before just reacting negatively because something is different.  Different can be bad, but at Friar’s Head it is FUCKING FANTASTIC! (My one and only time I will ever use the "F" word on GCA)

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Oh yes, I forgot to add, I have played Friars Head twice, both times today! Even though I use the "F-bomb" in describing it, I can tell you that I too am in a fog--a big huge, gigantic, cool, hazy cloud of euphoria.