[Anders Rytter]

I was fortunate enough to play Royal County Down this summer, what a fantastic place! I wondered about the old 16th, anybody played it? how did it play and any opinions about the succes of the restoration.

I guess same questions goes for 18th even though less was changed here.

[Sean Leary]

I only played the new 16. I liked the hole fine, but it felt like a hole that should be on a modern golf course and seemed a bit out of place.

[Bill_McBride]

During the Walker Cup it was one of the most fun holes to watch, from that hillside to the left.  The pitch shots into that slick front-to-back sloping green were very challenging and entertaining.   

We were told the original hole ran at 90^o to the new hole.   I'm not sure why the new hole was built.   

[Johnny_Browne]

The 18th and the 16th were done at the same time a number of years ago by Donald Steele.  The 16th was then amended by Donald Steele/Martin Ebert.  The original 16th was at right angles to the current - a great fun driveable (but risky) par 4 with a green sloping severely from front to back.  The changes were made after the British Amateur when players were driving the green with irons at times.  With the 17th tee behind the green there were often delays.  In essence it was a great driveable matchplay par 4 but was felt to be too short for the modern game.  The current 16th still does not work properly - it is the only hole on the course where the run up shot is not an option - it just runs off the green backwards and to the sides.  The new green is the firmest on the course, the only shot in is a lofted wedge.
The 18th used to just be open on the right on to the small course - it actually played well because if you went out there you had an almost impossible shot to a narrow green.  However there were safety issues and so it was heavily bunkered and mounded on the right - it does look natural now.  In my opinion the changes are too severe - the gap is so narrow with the punishment either side very severe than almost no one takes the second shot on now.
Johnny Browne

[Sean_A]

The old 16th was an awkward length hole - in the main reachable for only the really good players.  There was gorse down the left and a big dip in the landing zone leaving a blind approach.  The sensible play was to lay back and still hit a short iron.  I didn't care for the hole in the least.  In fact, the finishing three holes leave (left? - I haven't played the new version) a bad taste in my mouth.  It was almost like finishing on a different course.  To top it off the club had a visitors bar and folks weren't particularly friendly - more bad taste.  After so many wonderful holes it was a hard last hour to our visit (after some surly treatment we didn't bother to hang for drinks if we were to be considered lepers) and a great shame.  Haven't been back since and I will be hard pressed to give RCD another go.  Hopefully things are a bit better and to be fair, folks may have been in a bit of a tizzy as the pro shop was burned down the previous night - on purpose was the rumour. 

Ciao   

[Michael Goldstein]

Johnny.  Cheers for the info.  I have a feeling that Jamie and I played with your father at RCD...

[Anders Rytter]

Thanks for all the interesting replies. I also found the new 16th slightly out of context but not as much as 18th and especially 17th. (i managed to hit the pond.....)

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

When I played RCD for the first time, I was told by Bill Edwards(a great amateur in the 50s and early 60s from Garden City)--"for the first 15 holes you will wonder how it is not by far the greatest course in the world, and then you will step on the 16th tee and say what the hell, and after 18 you will think about redesigning the last 3 holes."  The original 16th was the easily the worst hole on any top course in the entire British Isles.  I considered it a very weak par 3 and still do not know how it could be considered a par 4.  Even into a 3 club wind I easily hit and held the green with a 3 wood and have also hit 4 iron into the hole.  The green was beyond massive in size, not to mention way out of character for the rest of the course

[Jim Nugent]

Any ideas on how to make those last three holes better?  e.g. could a redesign turn them into the same quality holes as the first 15? 

[Bill_McBride]

17 and 18 are both on the blandest part of the course, the most inland and away from the dunes along the ocean.   It would be hard to do much without overbuilding.   Nothing wrong with the 16th, really good match play hole.   

To the best of my recollection, 17 and 18 are the only holes not impacted by the dunes on that wonderful property.   

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Since I last played there, the 16th is new and they were adding bunkers on the right of 18 so you did not play the other course for the tee shot and 2nd shot.  In time, I don t doubt that they will get the final 3 holes up to snuff.

[Martin Toal]

The old 16th was certainly a hole that few people rated on a par with most of the other holes on the course, and it could yield a birdie or even eagle with a well played tee shot, but it could also seduce the average player into biting off a little more than they could chew.

The green was raised up from the fairway, and in wind-behind conditions, if you didn't make it up to the green, you had a very delicate chip/pitch to a firm green above you. A lot of middle handicappers ended up 25 or 30 yards from the flag in 1 but were then over the back in 2.

The 17th and 18th are not bad holes, in my opinion. The 17th green is a great one and the 18th has a certain charm.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

There's a photograph of the 16th in Frank Pennink's 1952 book "Golf" (Homes of Sport Series).

He described the hole as a "glorious full-shotter of 238 yards from a raised tee over an enormous bunker on to a green also perched high in the air upon the further side." I'll post the picture shortly, but his description seems a little at odds with what one sees in the photograph, as there is no enormous bunker to be seen.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

The first two pictures are from a photograph of the 16th in Frank Pennink's 1952 book "Golf" (Homes of Sport Series).



A closer look at the 16th.



The next two photograph are from the 1988 RCD centenary book.

The 16th (bottom right corner) and 17th (running diagonally) holes.



18th hole in centre of photograph.
 

[Anders Rytter]

Thanks!

[Matthew Hunt]

Johnny, its intresting you think a run up shot on 16 is not a good option because if I I have a clear 2nd shot i will always putt on.

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