[Michael Goldstein]

......golfing culture. The best overall way of 'doing' golf?

I'll give three examples of countries that are not number 1:

1. Australia because every round is too competitive and there are never any gimme's and the average round takes way way way too long..

2. China because golf is too exclusive and .01% of the population play...

3. NZ because, although affordable, the average golf course is treelined and cramped..

Let the debate begin..

[Tom_Doak]

Scotland!  Followed by England.

I would have put Australia much higher than you do.  They still [mostly] walk to play, and they maintain their courses on a much more sophisticated and sustainable program than anywhere else in a droughty environment.  But, of course, you're a Kiwi, so you'll never give them their due.

[Michael Goldstein]

Aussie is perfect playing at certain courses.  Great golf. Firm conditions. Couldn't be happier. But try playing 100 different courses....

PS I'm 'legally' an Aussie ...

PPS Go the All Blacks

[Matt Day]

As Tom said I would have thought Australia has a very good golfing culture.

I've got 13 ground staff that maintain 36 holes and provide pretty good surfaces for 165,000 rounds per annum. You can play 9 holes for $17 or 18 for $28 midweek ,we have 15 hours of sunlight in summer and are on pure sand so very few issues with course closures. Tee of at 5.30am for a quick nine holes and be in work by 8.30

65% of all golf played in Perth is social golf which means its played with mates for enjoyment

[Andy Stamm]

I can't imagine any country could compete with Scotland. Does England have more two-ball clubs than Scotland? If it does, that would bring it close in my estimation.

[Michael Goldstein]

I'm not saying Aussie is bad!

You can turn up and pay to play almost every single course (even the great ones).  The average course is of a quality standard and well maintained. Courses are busy with play. Courses are owned by the local council's so are local and accessible.  New courses have international influence but yet local designers are impressive as well. The weather is great etc etc.  There's even good banter!

I just think that it takes too long.
 

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I think Ireland is pretty good.

1. Great club and inter-club competitions.
2. Low maintenance budgets for most clubs (excl. K-Club et al.)
3. Mostly walking game  (excl. K-Club et al.)
4. Generally play quickly  (excl. K-Club et al.)

I think the local club and inter-club scene in Ireland is very good. It's very competitive (but in a good natured way) and is a great way for golf clubs to get to know each other. Every other golfing union should take a look at the inter-club competitions that the Golfing Union of Ireland (GUI, still the oldest golfing union in the world  ) and each individual province and county run. There are inter-club match-play events that cater all levels of golfers, not just the low handicappers.

These inter-club matches allow you to play some of the best courses in the country for nothing. My old club have played matches against great clubs such as RCD, Portrush, Castlerock, Portstewart, etc., and the team members play for no charge at all. It's the same situation in Connacht, Munster and Leinster.

I wonder about England. My brother is a member of a club in the NE and he says that once October comes, all club competitions cease and the competitive atmosphere takes a nose-dive. I also don't see the attraction in two-balls; isn't a 4BBB match between regulars one of the best ways to play golf?

Based on my limited experience of Sweden so far, I don't rate it that highly. Even matches between clubs in Sweden are strokeplay. My home club has about 10 singles competitions from May to October. I only get 10 opportunities to reduce my handicap in the whole year. If I want to have more chances, I need to play elsewhere. In Ireland, you could play 10+ competitions in a month.

[Michael Goldstein]

Donal, you forgot to mention how fun it is playing golf with the Irish. Then there's the aftermatch.. And towns with a spirit that emanates from the golf course. And the variety in Ireland isn't bad either...

[Mark Pearce]

Donal,

I don't get your point about NE England.  Yes, most clubs wind down strokeplay comps in October until April.  Given the weather and conditions that's hardly surprising.  The same is true to a great extent in Scotland, too.  That doesn't mean that social golf doesn't continue and many clubs have Winter comps (we have a 4bbb knock-out, a Winter eclectic and, at Christmas, a long-hole cross country event).  Seems to me that that's all symptomatic of a very strong golfing culture.

[Mark Chaplin]

Scott Warren sums up what is wrong with Australian golf, the first question is always "what did you shoot"? Golf takes too long when you have a pencil in your hand every round. It's not a dig at my old mate but the strokeplay culture.

Donal in my area the big inter club knockouts are 5 and better, 9 and better, 12 and better, 15 and better and 19+. It is very competitive at every level and even the 19+ team will all have caddies and support in the final.

Deal has a fourball event in February, too cold, too slow and tiny field.

As I said to Ran at Liphook golf should take six hours, three to play and three for lunch!

Andy - how many Scottish clubs are two ball? Muirfield, Prestwick, Elie(?) anymore? England has Rye, Deal, Sandwich, RAF, B&B, Brancaster, Aldeburgh, Piltdown and Pulborough. The big 36 hole clubs like Sunningdale, Walton Heath and The Berkshire always have a two ball course.

[Scott Warren]

There are many things that are great about golf in Australia and I alternate on whether the competition culture is good or bad.

It's only really the longer rounds that's a downside. Having to make your three-footers rather than pick them up is character-building!

I still would enjoy a bit more matchplay though. The beauty of the enhanced competition culture means more rounds are handicapped and we don't end up with the sort of 13 markers who go around the back nine at National in even par...

[Mark Chaplin]

Twelve old boy twelve!

[Ben Stephens]

As I said to Ran at Liphook golf should take six hours, three to play and three for lunch!

Chappers

LOL nice statement!

My version would be like this - 2.5 hrs first round 0.5 quick lunch 2.5 hrs second rd and 0.5 a few pints!

Cheers
Ben

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Mark P:

I'm not trying to put down golf in the NE of England. I'm was just repeating the feeling my brother expressed regarding golf at his club in the NE. As someone that played most of his golf in Donegal (which has awful winter weather that is the equal to anywher else in the UK&I), he noticed a marked difference betwen his experiences in Donegal and those in the NE of England. It may be different at other clubs in England.

At my old club in Donegal, we didn't really cut back on competitions that much in the Winter. We always had big club competitions (stroke & stableford) at the end of October and ran a 4BBB winter league (not knock-out, as you might get knocked out in the 1st round and what do you do for the rest of the winter) with groups of four playing round robin matches. There is also a Donegal Alliance where you play a singles competition at a different club every 3 weeks (many are cancelled because of stormy weather). Usually over 100 players turn out for these events.

My point is that golf in Ireland is still very competitive as well as very social in the winter. The same may be true elsewhere in other parts of the UK.

Mark C:

The GUI organised events are much the same as you've described. They also have one where you need a low (5 and over) & higher hcap player, with the sum not lower than a certain amount (I can't remember exactly, but it could have been 17). I think these events are great as they give us less accomplished players a chance to play competitive inter-club golf.

[Mark Pearce]

Donal,

You appear to be arguing that a year round competitive calendar is an essential element of an excellent golfing culture.  I disagree.  I also play hockey and cricket.  Both have shorter competitive seasons than golf.  Both sports have excellent cultures.  There is more to golf than competition.

Mark

[Mark Chaplin]

To answer Michael's question fully I'd like to propose the traditional old English clubs (and one or two in Scotland) do golf best:

Meet in bar for coffee and brandy

Play 18 holes in a brisk manner be it two ball, foursomes or even fourball.

Shower and don jacket and tie or cravat if you are the type.

Attend the dining room for a traditional three course luncheon, four if you have space for cheese. Choose a very good red(s) from the wine list if you were victorious or hope your opponent likes cheap claret if you lost as loser pays!

Retire to the bar for coffee and kümmel. Join with others and arrange an afternoon foursomes game to walk off the booze.

What is unique about this golfing day is it is not exclusive like a similar day elsewhere. Rye, Sandwich, Prestwick, Muirfield and a few others allow you to have this member experience at least one or two days a week.

[Michael Goldstein]

Silence from the US... ?

[Bill_McBride]

To answer Michael's question fully I'd like to propose the traditional old English clubs (and one or two in Scotland) do golf best:

Meet in bar for coffee and brandy

Play 18 holes in a brisk manner be it two ball, foursomes or even fourball.

Shower and don jacket and tie or cravat if you are the type.

Attend the dining room for a traditional three course luncheon, four if you have space for cheese. Choose a very good red(s) from the wine list if you were victorious or hope your opponent likes cheap claret if you lost as loser pays!

Retire to the bar for coffee and kümmel. Join with others and arrange an afternoon foursomes game to walk off the booze.

What is unique about this golfing day is it is not exclusive like a similar day elsewhere. Rye, Sandwich, Prestwick, Muirfield and a few others allow you to have this member experience at least one or two days a week.

I'm all in for this life of golf.   

Back from the Buda for nine days, I'm already jonesing for golf in the UK. 

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

England and scotland for sure...they still have organised monthly medals, monthly stablefords etc., they are preopared to put their tee in the ground and actually count their scores...still play foursomes and actually know what that means....
The handicap system is based on  REAL golf and not the casual round with your buddies
they dont refer to golf courses as "tracks"...on golf shows...and they dont use that horriblt t19th phrase, they actuually use the word tied!!!!

They walk, trudge through crappy conditions and cant wait to stay up late to watch the Masters.....

[Michael George]

IMHO, Scotland in a run away. 

1.  The public nature of most golf courses in Scotland. 

2.  Having the golf course being an integral part of the town.  I have always thought how tempting St. Andrews and North Berwick must be from a neighboring office building on a sunny summer day.  I would never keep my job over the summer.

3.  Golf is part and parcel with the camaraderie of friends and fellow golfers and the drinks that you have after the round.

For further explanation, see Golf in the Kingdom.

[JMEvensky]

Donal, you forgot to mention how fun it is playing golf with the Irish. Then there's the aftermatch.. And towns with a spirit that emanates from the golf course. And the variety in Ireland isn't bad either...

You forgot to mention the Irish women.

I always tell people that,as great as the golf is in Ireland,the non-playing part is even better.Has an American ever had to pay for a drink after a round of golf in Ireland?

[Sean Leary]

I will say Scotland with Canada as a dark horse.....Love the fact that so many Canadians play with such a short season, even if many play from the wrong side of the ball.....

[Sean Leary]

Donal, you forgot to mention how fun it is playing golf with the Irish. Then there's the aftermatch.. And towns with a spirit that emanates from the golf course. And the variety in Ireland isn't bad either...

I always tell people that,as great as the golf is in Ireland,the non-playing part is even better.Has an American ever had to pay for a drink after a round of golf in Ireland?

I think this was the case 10+ years ago more than now. I felt that in general the Irish were much more welcoming in 2001 than in 2007. And it hurts to say that considering my lineage.

[Martin Toal]

England and scotland for sure...they still have organised monthly medals, monthly stablefords etc., they are preopared to put their tee in the ground and actually count their scores...still play foursomes and actually know what that means....
The handicap system is based on  REAL golf and not the casual round with your buddies
they dont refer to golf courses as "tracks"...on golf shows...and they dont use that horriblt t19th phrase, they actuually use the word tied!!!!

They walk, trudge through crappy conditions and cant wait to stay up late to watch the Masters.....

After moving from NI to England, I was shocked at how few competitions there were at English clubs (and I have been a member of 4 different ones). At my old club in NI (Dungannon, original home of the Champion Golfer of the Year), we had comps every weekend, sometimes both days, as well as midweeks stuff. Some of the comps were medals, some stablefords, but we also had bogey competitions and flag competitions (you play out your handicap and see how far past the 18th you get). It is also the only course where I ever played a team comp where each team member had 1 club each and had to play in strict rotation.

[Ally Mcintosh]

1. Scotland... Just get down to the himalayas putting green of an evening and that will provide all the proof you need...
2. England

Both these beat Ireland anyhow...

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