[Patrick_Mucci]

Dick Wilson's Doral was a terrific golf course.

As to Doral being acquired by Trump, off the top of my head, I can't think of a Trump course that's not maintained well, nor can I think of a Trump course that's not run well.

So, why are those who know so little about Trump's modus operendi, with respect to golf courses, being so negative ?

Would you have prefered it if Doral had continued on its current trajectory ?

[jeffwarne]

Dick Wilson's Doral was a terrific golf course.

As to Doral being acquired by Trump, off the top of my head, I can't think of a Trump course that's not maintained well, nor can I think of a Trump course that's not run well.

So, why are those who know so little about Trump's modus operendi, with respect to golf courses, being so negative ?

Would you have prefered it if Doral had continued on its current trajectory ?

Pat,
I know you know Wilson's work well.
My Doral experience only dates back to 1983 when I first visited.
I've always thought of the course as a good one,save for the Floyd miscue that was quietly buried.

Do you really think that a simple resoration (with modern length) would pack enough wow factor for there to be any appreciable uptick in interest by the customer base of Doral (past or present)?
Wilson was a fine architect of his era,but I just don't think there's the wow factor there.

It may not matter what we think as something entirely different may be done to the course.
Brad's article has them moving 6 greens so it's somewhat hard for me to see that as restoration.
I will say there was room to do exactly such a thing on the old White on that mature,parklike piece of property and they could've had two excellent courses, rather than the abominaton that is currently the White (nobody played it after the Norman redo,but perhaps that has changed with some softening)

The labor in Maimi can be a problem-it certainly was in my 10 years at Doral.
I do think someone who has demonstrated operating success with golf courses such as Trump has the best chance of breathing life into the resort.
Miami and Trump are probably a good fit-neither are particularly subtle-the Hanse connection intrigues me,but then it is tough out there.....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

The project is not without it's challenges.

Hard to predict what will be done.

Rejuvenating interest may be difficult and expensive.

When it first opened, Doral was THE place to play golf if you were visiting Miami and didn't know anyone at LaGorce or Indian Creek.
The other hotel courses couldn't compete with it and it was close to the airport, like Trump's course in West Palm Beach.

My guess is that more than the golf course needs to be updated and that can get very expensive.

But, Trump will surely take advantage of the PGA Tour stop connection, has certainly hired a quality architect and can take advantage of the NEED for a good resort golf course in the Miami area.  Some courses, like Mayacoo Lakes, have tee times reserved for local hotel guests, so perhaps he'll adopt a similar program.

Based on his track record with golf courses, I'd be surprised if Doral isn't a success.

Time will tell

[Howard Riefs]

Done. Deal.

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/2/27/greater-miami-velvet-ropemakers-prepare-trump-announces-dora.html

“When Doral first opened, it was considered the best resort in the world,” stated Donald J. Trump, chairman and president. “The combination of the property’s incredible location in the heart of Miami and our very significant investment in upgrading the resort will enable us to return Doral to its former glory if not surpass it. When completed, Doral will be the finest resort and golf club in the country.”

Hmm...  Sorry, Bandon, Pebble Beach, Pinehurst, etc.

[Matthew Rose]

Instead of the blue monster, it's the hair monster.

[Keith Phillips]

I concur with Pat's last post - Miami is a major city and there is currently a dearth of quality public golf - Trump has deep pockets and good instincts (based on recent efforts in Bedminster and Aberdeen) - Gil Hanse is an inspired choice - while it may have been difficult for Doral to find quality staff, South Beach is full of luxury hotels offering exceptional service - it may take a decade, and I agree that Bandon and Pebble have nothing to fear, but I see no reason why Doral can't become very successful again.

[jeffwarne]

Not sure I'd use aberdeen as an example of "good instincts" by trump


 

[Jud_T]

well at least he's consistent. 

[Keith Phillips]

Not sure I'd use aberdeen as an example of "good instincts" by trump

Fair enough...'instincts' may been a poor choice of words     - I have played many of the leading and lesser lights of Scotland but have never been to Aberdeenshire...I have stayed away from all the posts re. the permitting issues etc (not my battle), but I guess I was pleasantly surprised that Trump went with Hawtree for that work, in the same way I'm pleasantly surprised that he would choose Gil Hanse for Doral - say what you will about them, neither are renowned for their waterfalls!  Speaking only for the golf course, and judging only by photos, perhaps the correct term would be 'efforts' rather than 'instincts'

[Tim Gavrich]

Doral is Donald Trump's "in" with top-level professional golf.  If he oversees a successful renovation of the Blue Monster that raises the profile of the resort and the tournament it hosts, then he can add that to his résumé for future lobbying for a major championship.

Gil Hanse is one of the architects who receives virtually universal respect on this site.  Why aren't people more encouraged by Trump's choosing him to remake such an important golf course that, we all seem to agree, needs some remaking?

And I'll go on record as saying I hope the White stays a golf course.  I recall it as having pretty generous fairways, lots of short grass, interesting greens, and a high walkability factor.  It's also a complete aesthetic antithesis to the rest of the courses around there, which counts for a bit in my book.

Sure, everything at the resort is rather overpriced, but *qua* golf course, the Blue Monster is about to get a lot better and the White is interesting, even cool.

[D_Malley]

"Gil Hanse is one of the architects who receives virtually universal respect on this site.  Why aren't people more encouraged by Trump's choosing him to remake such an important golf course that, we all seem to agree, needs some remaking?"

who do you think choose Hanse?  Trump or the PGA tour?

[JSlonis]

"Gil Hanse is one of the architects who receives virtually universal respect on this site.  Why aren't people more encouraged by Trump's choosing him to remake such an important golf course that, we all seem to agree, needs some remaking?"

who do you think choose Hanse?  Trump or the PGA tour?

Neither...

It was Phil Mickelson. He said that if Rees Jones was brought in, he'd quit playing golf.  Since Phil has mentioned Gil's name on more than one occasion in the past, he's thrilled with the choice.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Like we've said any number of times, those golfers that aren't on this discussion board have MUCH different views of golf and golf courses.  I know a dozen+ individuals that think playing Doral is a must.  Throw in the Trump name and these guys will go ga-ga over the opportunity to tee it up here.

[JLahrman]

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/donald-trump-has-grand-plans-doral-and-hes-ready-tell-you-all-about-them?sct=hp_t2_a10&eref=sihp

Gary Van Sickle interviews Donald Trump. A little hard to tell who is asking the questions though.

[JMEvensky]

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/donald-trump-has-grand-plans-doral-and-hes-ready-tell-you-all-about-them?sct=hp_t2_a10&eref=sihp

Gary Van Sickle interviews Donald Trump. A little hard to tell who is asking the questions though.

Have you ever read a more bizarre interview?

[JLahrman]

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/donald-trump-has-grand-plans-doral-and-hes-ready-tell-you-all-about-them?sct=hp_t2_a10&eref=sihp

Gary Van Sickle interviews Donald Trump. A little hard to tell who is asking the questions though.

Have you ever read a more bizarre interview?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuO75_hJgCQ

[David Kelly]

Like we've said any number of times, those golfers that aren't on this discussion board have MUCH different views of golf and golf courses.  I know a dozen+ individuals that think playing Doral is a must. 

Well the resort wasn't exactly swimming in money the last decade so it wasn't exactly the hot spot it was in years past.  Also, regardless of their views on golf architecture presumably these golfers you mentioned would have noticed the shabby conditions and bad hotel and restaurants when they went to Doral.

[jeffwarne]

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/donald-trump-has-grand-plans-doral-and-hes-ready-tell-you-all-about-them?sct=hp_t2_a10&eref=sihp

Gary Van Sickle interviews Donald Trump. A little hard to tell who is asking the questions though.

Have you ever read a more bizarre interview?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuO75_hJgCQ

The "15th hole wil be an island green"
Well now I know what Brad Klein meant about "restoring Dick Wilson's angles"

Does this mean the Jim McLean golf course(formerly the Silver) is about to be renamed 'Trump Fazio"
very bizarre interview.

I think Doral could be greatly improved when he's done, and even be a financial success.
As I said before Trump and Miami are a good match.
I hope he has the smarts to maintain his current relationship with the Jim McLean Golf School, the only positive asset of the last 20 years.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

I had the opportunity to play Trump's WPB course recently.

Someone who works at the club approached me.
They told me that they lurk on GCA.com.
They also told me that they didn't understand the venom contained in many posts, especially from people who never met Trump, nor played his course/s

We discussed GCA.com and the "Trump" threads.

I asked the individual, how they liked working for Trump.
I also asked other individuals the same question.

To the person, they all stated that they ENJOYED working for him.
That they liked his attention to detail and his desire to produce a quality golf product.

Let's not forget that Donald isn't designing golf courses, that he retains professional architects for that task.

So again, with his rescuing of many distressed courses, with his desire to improve them, why the venom ?

I wish him the best of luck with Doral and can't understand why any serious golfer or GCA enthusiast wouldn't.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

I had the opportunity to play Trump's WPB course recently.

Someone who works at the club approached me.
They told me that they lurk on GCA.com.
They also told me that they didn't understand the venom contained in many posts, especially from people who never met Trump, nor played his course/s

We discussed GCA.com and the "Trump" threads.

I asked the individual, how they liked working for Trump.
I also asked other individuals the same question.

To the person, they all stated that they ENJOYED working for him.
That they liked his attention to detail and his desire to produce a quality golf product.

Let's not forget that Donald isn't designing golf courses, that he retains professional architects for that task.

So again, with his rescuing of many distressed courses, with his desire to improve them, why the venom ?

I wish him the best of luck with Doral and can't understand why any serious golfer or GCA enthusiast wouldn't.

As i said he's a perfect match for Doral and Miami, and comes with proven experience.
Would actually be a great place for one of his glitzy reality shows.

I haven't cared for his schtick in Scotland(as like it or not he represents us), and he's just not a lot of people's flavor, but Miami well, I'd say he'll do just fine-and it's a very hot market.
I'd say anyone who's chosen to work for Trump, or joined one of his clubs, would not understand some people's disapproval of Trump's antics.....
as no doubt their needs are being met.

[Steve Strasheim]

$150 million???

He stole this property.

[Mike Sweeney]

Let's not forget that Donald isn't designing golf courses, that he retains professional architects for that task.

http://www.trumpnationalhudsonvalley.com/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=298448&ssid=181601&vnf=1


This Donald J. Trump Signature design is carved from the rolling hills of a former bison farm. While navigating verdant fields, babbling streams, lush meadows and mountain foothills, the course becomes a golfer’s delight.

Oops!!

Patrick,

I think Trump has his place in golf. Doral is probably a great purchase for him as he has a real appeal with Internationals and Miami fits that profile. I would love to see Doral again after he implements his changes.

I am glad he did not take over Engineers.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

I think you're confusing his persona with his product.

He, as a person is  an easy target, but we're not talking about HIM, we're talking about his golf courses and his effort to revitalize Doral.

Mike,

Keep reading.

Trump National at Hopewell junction was an existing golf course.

And, don't believe " everything" you read

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

I think you're confusing his persona with his product.

He, as a person is  an easy target, but we're not talking about HIM, we're talking about his golf courses and his effort to revitalize Doral.

Mike,

Keep reading.

Trump National at Hopewell junction was an existing golf course.

And, don't believe " everything" you read

Pat,
Not confusing anything.
His persona is part of his product-that plays better in Miami than Scotland.(may work there too)
Doral-bought right-hot market-popular PGA Tour site-country emerging from recession-shoud work.

I wish him well at Doral.
In fact I know another bidder quite well who would've been a complete disaster.

I really would like to see the place revitalized. I have friends,employees, and colleagues working there.
I have spent a good bit of time there , taught Howard Kaskel and much of his family at various times.
I have poked a bit of fun though at those who suggest Hanse will do a restoration-not happening-nor should it happen.
Lots of good potential on that property and Hanse can bring it out.
I'd keep him around and redo 1 course per summer.

[JLahrman]

Jeff,

I think you're confusing his persona with his product.

He, as a person is an easy target, but we're not talking about HIM, we're talking about his golf courses and his effort to revitalize Doral.

Donald Trump does not give the impression that he wants anybody to separate his personna from his product. You can hardly blame some on this site for wanting to stay away from his courses, especially once the waterfalls come out. His polarizing style is designed to not appeal to everyone.

I've never played any of his courses, nor have I played Doral, but I do think this could be a successful combination. Hopefully it does work.

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