[Tony_Muldoon]

Thanks Neil glad you liked it. I liked it so much I played i twice last year.


Re the 17th, I recall its 377 yards. With a following wind Adam Lawrence of this parish drove over the hill and onto the green. Certainly one of the most impressive shots I've seen!

[Niall C]

After playing this course with Tony and others I had to go see my doctor with vertigo. Tony induced a panic attack by merely pointing out Cheltenham race course in the distance. The only way I could stop myself goig into hysterics was by concentrating on the ground a few feet in front of me. Never been so glad to get off a golf course in my life.

The doctor, btw, suggested that I attend psychiatric group therapy. I politely declined the offer.

Niall

[Thomas Dai]

Great photos. Well done to all for posting them. Would love to play it and so would some friends. How hilly is it in comparison to say Kington or Church Stretton or Painswick? Do you reckon it's walkable (using an electric power trolley) for someone a bit aged or unfit or not in the greatest of health? Advice welcome.

All the best.

[Sean_A]

In the spirit of the anti-snobbery thread, this thread gives me heart and hope for this board.  Imagine 2000 hits for a muni in Gloucestershire! 

Thomas

All four courses are a fairly tough walk.  I think Kington's is managed the best because the front 9 climbs while the back 9 descends.  The other three involve up n' down, up n' down....That said, all are walkable especially with a battery trolley.  In fact, they are more walkable (perhaps partly because of the great scenery) than many a modern design.

Neil

I am glad you liked the Cleeve Cloud.  Lets plan to get back soon.

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

In the spirit of the anti-snobbery thread, this thread gives me heart and hope for this board.  Imagine 2000 hits for a muni in Gloucestershire! 

Thomas

All four courses are a fairly tough walk.  I think Kington's is managed the best because the front 9 climbs while the back 9 descends.  The other three involve up n' down, up n' down....That said, all are walkable especially with a battery trolley.  In fact, they are more walkable (perhaps partly because of the great scenery) than many a modern design.

Neil

I am glad you liked the Cleeve Cloud.  Lets plan to get back soon.

Ciao

My little wife (literally at 5', 105 lbs) is a great walker.  Her big problem at Painswick was climbing up the steep precipices at 5 and 10, but I was a good guy and helped her schlep up the hill with her trolley.  It was a lot easier with a Sun Mountain Mini and 11 clubs. 

Haven't played the others dang it. 

[Mike Hendren]

Exhibit A to support the contention that there is absolutely no excuse for rote and pedestrian golf course design and construction:



Stunning.

[Thomas Dai]

Sean and Bill,

Many thanks for the advice. I'll chat with my chums and try to get along to there soon.

All the best

[Sean_A]

Please see updated tour.

This is the first game in a spell and I reckoned Cleeve Cloud would be the ONLY dry course within a very long drive of my house...and so it proved to be the case.  Cleeve Cloud is standing up quite admirably to the foul weather these past 8 weeks have thrown at poor ole England.  I have seen Cleeve Cloud enough times now to be satisfied that it offers enough challenge, beauty and interest at an incredibly reasonable green fee to warrant 1*   

Previous Stops on the Tour:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49998.0.html  Worcester G&CC 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35648.0.html  Whittington Heath

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57487.0.html  West Hill

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57396.msg1340334.html#msg1340334  Walton Heath Old

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57349.0.html  Sandy Lodge 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,26579.0.html Tadmarton Heath

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51321.0.html Sutton Coldfield Recommended in Winter Only

Next Scheduled Stop: Pennard

[Jon Wiggett]

I hope you have a super day Brian.

Jon

[Sean_A]

Tour slightly updated.  The more I play Cleeve Cloud the better it seems to get. 

Previous stops on the tour:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59831.0.html  Cumberwell Park Orange

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html  Kington 


Next scheduled stop is Worplesdon.   


Ciao

[Sean_A]

So, what say the Mighty Sheehy?

Ciao

[Sean_A]

A surprise visit last week caught Cleeve Cloud in damn near prefect conditions.  The fairways are the narrowest on the planet, but the sheep take care of business  .  The whispiness of the rough is a dream come true with slightly awkard lies, but balls are easy to find.  Much like Kington, Cleeve Cloud played like a links in the sky.  See updated pix.


Ciao

[John Mayhugh]

It's safe to say that without this photo tour, I would never have seen Cleeve Cloud (Cleeve Hill). What a shame that would have been.  Thanks to Sean's posts, I've now visited Kington, Cleeve Cloud, and Church Stretton.  These are probably the three highest courses in England, and all show how much interest (and fun) can be accomplished on a hill that wouldn't seem suitable for a course.  It seems natural to compare the three to each other, but I think that each can be compared favorably with a number of more "proper" courses.

Cleeve Cloud is a much easier walk than one might think, and the views often distract from focusing on the shot.  I can only imagine what it would be like playing the second nine during the Cheltenham festival. 

Given the nature of the site, there are a lot of blind shots, but it's something of a model for blindness, as there is a lot of room for error without risking lost balls.

I loved it.

[Sean_A]

Tucky

The aspect of the blind drives was a point my bro in-law made as well.  Of course, this also points to CC's biggest weakness...there isn't enough pressure on the driver. 

Ciao

[Sean_A]

Unusually, I made another stop at Cleeve Cloud this winter. This doesn't seem like it should be winter, but its been cold, we had snow a week or so ago, today it we had sleet and the temp dropped to below 40F.  This is likely my last stop on the tour, but one never knows if this poor weather will continue. 

The course was in fine nick with running fairways and greens that were quicker than they looked like they might be.  See updated tour.

I am told Doak stopped by this winter...lets hope he chips in.

Previous Tour Stops on the 2015-16 Winter Tour

Kington http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html

B&B Channel http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,62038.msg1473736.html#msg1473736

Little Aston http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38973.msg1158969.html#msg1158969

Walton Heath New http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60107.msg1420813.html#msg1420813

Cleeve Cloud http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html

Huntercombe http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.msg1171492.html#msg1171492

Broadway front 9  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44266.0.html

Beau Desert  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30965.0.html

WHO
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61415.msg1460548.html#msg1460548

Formby  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32146.0.html

Formby Ladies
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60714.msg1494172.html#msg1494172

Notts
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.msg1137972.html#msg1137972




Scheduled Tour Stops - none

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

I am told Doak stopped by this winter...lets hope he chips in.

Sean:


Yes, Clyde Johnson and I stopped through Cleeve on our way from Pennard to Woodhall Spa in January, which is not the easiest of drives.  The days were so short, and Huw at Pennard went on talking for so long after lunch, that we only had about a half hour of light to go out for a quick walk to the top of the hill and back ... and many of the fairways were a bit frosty as well.


So, we only got to see the first few holes and the 17th and 18th.  I must say that it's impossible for the photos here to capture the scale of the hills at Cleeve -- they are way bigger than I imagined, to the point that I can't say I have seen another course on similar land.  Wish I'd seen it before my book was complete.  Can't wait to go back and play it whenever I am next in the vicinity.

[Sean_A]

I am told Doak stopped by this winter...lets hope he chips in.

Sean:


Yes, Clyde Johnson and I stopped through Cleeve on our way from Pennard to Woodhall Spa in January, which is not the easiest of drives.  The days were so short, and Huw at Pennard went on talking for so long after lunch, that we only had about a half hour of light to go out for a quick walk to the top of the hill and back ... and many of the fairways were a bit frosty as well.


So, we only got to see the first few holes and the 17th and 18th.  I must say that it's impossible for the photos here to capture the scale of the hills at Cleeve -- they are way bigger than I imagined, to the point that I can't say I have seen another course on similar land.  Wish I'd seen it before my book was complete.  Can't wait to go back and play it whenever I am next in the vicinity.

Tom

I did try to get you out to CC during one of your whirlwind tours!

There is a lot of up n' down...too much for ideal golf.  The hills are a double edge as they are the source of much of the character, but also one of the biggest weaknesses. 

Its incredible how different Painswick and CC are given the land is quite similar.  CC feels like it could go on forever while Painswick feels like there is only room for 13 holes

Give me a shout should you decide to give CC a go.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

After far, far too long I finally made it to play at Cleeve recently accompanied by another regular contributed herein plus son and heir. I (we) was really impressed. A whole bunch of excellent holes, not so obvious driving lines, some super greensites, interesting architect etc, all as already described in detail above, and not as hilly as I'd expected either. We didn't get to play the 18th hole however, heavy rain came lashing down so we legged it pretty quick, but overall it was thoroughly enjoyable. Now I can better appreciate why others posting herein have written so positively about the course over the years. No comparison analysis to Painswick, Minch' Old or Stinchcombe Hill yet though! I look forward the returning to Cleeve again.....given the views and scenary it must be an amazing course to play on a balmy mid-summers evening.
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[/size]Atb

[Thomas Dai]

Some photos of Cleeve from different angles to supplement those already posted above.


From the Men's 1st medal tee you drive over the large rocks positioned to the left side of the white car!




Directional marker pole and 150 yd stone on 2nd fairway with the town of Winchcombe in the background.


Miss the par-3 6th green to the right and your in this..........and there are many quarries at Cleeve Hill that are much deeper than this one.



From the 11th fairway looking back towards the 11th tee. Looks hilly and yes it is. But the routing alleviates much climbing.


The lovely/evil 13th green photographed from the front left side.


atb

[Sean_A]

Adrian

First we have the rumour that Old Tom was involved, but later generations can't find any information. Yet it’s interesting that this statement was issued in the last few years re OTM and no proof.

The Golfers Guide has been rather realisable to date, albeit published 4 years after the event. Yet we have the newspaper article clearly stating his return from Cheltenham in April 1891 the month after the club was formed. Also interesting is the comment about Davie Brown's brother being the Green Keeper.

So we have three things putting OTM at Cheltenham, two in writing and one printed a few days after his return. As for any holes left, I just do not know.

Had it just been the rumour then there are grounds to dismiss it out of hand but two separate reports one published at the time in a National newspaper, make it more believable. But as I said you can take it or leave it.

Melvyn

Well, I reckon Melvyn was right.  He found this article below and a map of the original OTM design. I don't think many holes remain, but I don't think there is much doubt the The Camp green is OTM's.   



Thanks Melvyn!

Ciao

[Sean_A]

I have no direct information, but I saw in a tweet (member?) that Cleeve Hill will close as of the end of the financial year 2021!  I don't know any details, but I do know the course has been struggling for some time as the membership is very low. 

Ciao

[Robin_Hiseman]

Sean


That would be a tragedy, so I hope that your information is wrong.


Cleeve is part of the Playmore Golf Flexible Membership scheme. Adrian Stiff is probably the guy to tell us what he thinks about the virtues of this scheme from the perspective of a course owner. £350 a year will buy an annual sub at Cleeve and allow the members of 260+ other courses to play there free of charge. That's no kind of sustainable business model for the operator.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Robin,


That's not an entirely fair description of the PlayMoreGolf model. PMG members get 100 points for their £350 - 80 of which they can only use at their home club and 20 which they can use either at their home club or at any of the other clubs in the scheme. When points are used at an "away" course, that club receives a payment from PMG based on the number of points charged for a round at that club at that particular time and day.

Adrian's objections to PMG appear to be down the prices clubs choose to charge their members for each round of golf, rather than the model itself. That and the charges PMG make for recruiting the new members in the first place.




As for Cleeve Hill/Cloud, is it that one of the clubs attached to the course is in financial difficulties, or has the local authority decided to close the course?


If the former, it doesn't necessarily sound terminal. Plenty of municipal courses keep going after the management fails. A new club could be phoenixed from the ashes of the old.

[Sean_A]

Sean

That would be a tragedy, so I hope that your information is wrong.

Doc

Sorry, it was an Instagram post from a member of Cleeve Cloud 



Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

The closure is nothing to do with Covid 19.


Not sure if it can be saved or if saved enough people would play, sadly the GCA good eye is often not the good eye financially.

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