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Jed Peters

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Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2011, 01:40:24 PM »
 

Why do you think the new love affair with Dismal River has come about. 

Jim:

The question isn't directed towards me, but I think it has to do with:

1. Chris Johnson's willingness to share this treasure with others.

2. Doak butt-boyism regarding the new course

3. The general "sheep" mentality of GCA (and people, in general).


  You are the biggest butt-boy on the site Jed. How many times do you have to kiss ass for playing Cypress.

  Anthony



Apparently, enough.

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2011, 01:41:31 PM »
Jed,

Have you been to Dismal?

No, but I'd love to. From the pics I've seen, I think it'd be pretty great. With the addition of the new course, it'll be a pretty fantastic venue.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2011, 02:26:27 PM »
I'm glad we're talking about the 5th hole. I was drawn to it from the first time I saw it in pictures on this site. It's been featured prominently in the club's marketing materials over the years as well. I remember sending off for the membership packet and getting the DVD with the flyovers narrated by Jim Kelly. I bet I watched that video 10X back then. 5 is an exacting hole and it is a stunner. When you're on the green and look back down to the tee it looks all of about 80 yards long?! Makes me feel even worse about my game...

---

Brandon,

What's really cool about 5 is you're seeing this green with this killer fronting bunker as you stand and pan the area on the second tee. Then on the 3rd green you see it standing sentinel above the fourth hole. It's slowly drawing you to it, then boom. It's right there in front of you after walking off of the green at 4. It's really something. I just need to get one to stay on the green. [.."hit a choked 7, dummy...hit a choked 7, dummy..."]

---

Jed,

You like to gamble? Book a ticket to Denver for Friday morning. Next Hater Retreat at Dismal starts at 4:00 (Mountain Time). I'll pick you up at the airport and get you back to Denver late Sunday afternoon. Let's see what kind of game you, me, Kavanaugh and Chris can come up with.

---

One last thing...Why hasn't Ron Csigo made it out to Dismal? What in the world is stopping him? Work?? LOL Beach Volleyball season's not over yet???

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2011, 02:27:04 PM »
Can't wait to check the place out (actually I probably can wait 20 months  ;)) but is this a backhanded compliment?

it’s best thought of as Nicklaus’ version of Tobacco Road.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 02:30:02 PM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ron Csigo

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Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2011, 03:02:42 PM »
One last thing...Why hasn't Ron Csigo made it out to Dismal? What in the world is stopping him? Work?? LOL Beach Volleyball season's not over yet???

Eric,

I was talking to a fellow GCAer last week and would love nothing more than to come out to Dismal River and spend a few days on property with you, Mac, Chris, John, Adam and anyone else that may be around.  To me, the golf course at Dismal River looks intoxicating and would be a blast to play.  Although beach volleyball, the occasional slam dunk contest and work (my little talk show on late night ABC ;) ) often get in the way, those things will not deter me from joining you at Dismal soon.
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2011, 04:44:22 PM »
I came out to Dismal a couple weeks ago with a bit of a negative idea of the place.  To be honest, the existing golf course wasn't a big thought in my mind.  More than anything, I was looking forward to being a grunt and learning a few things about golf construction.  I had bothered the hell out of Tom (mostly), and Don and Chris to come out to be a witness to the process and help them out any way I could.  It was going to be a great way to spend a week away from jets and paperwork.  

After a Sunday morning of putting fescue slurry down on some freshly finished green surrounds, Chris generously hosted the Renaissance and Greenscape Methods dudes (Brett, Jeff, Zach, Robert and I)  for an afternoon of golf.  Did I come away thinking that DR#1 was the greatest thing I've ever seen?  No.  But was it as awful as so many had opined here in the past?  Not hardly.  

I thought it was a very good Jack Nicklaus golf course.  Which is to say it was a good test of golf.  Poor swings weren't rewarded with easy or benign results.  Good swings got you on the right bowl of a green, or in the area of the fairway that promoted a green light to the green.  Good putts went in, and poor putts didn't.  I was completely okay with the "cart nature" of the golf course and I think that it was clearly designed with this in mind.  The views were outstanding.  The bunkering wasn't my favorite aesthetic, but it certainly wasn't offensive to the landscape or out of place.  

I thought #5 was just fine.  I didn't rave over it, but I don't think it's anywhere near the abortion that Dr. Klein thinks.  The threes are all tough iron shots over varying terrain, and I like that concept.  The joke I kept ribbing Chris with was that #10 would be a phenomenal golf hole, if it didn't have a damn bunker in it.  

I look at what's in the ground now at Dismal River and wonder why it suffered such vitriol from the start.  I am sure a ton of changes were undertaken that has made it better, but the bones from the older version are still there.  And they're not bad at all.   In fact, it is quite good, and especially fun.  It's not Sand Hills or Ballyneal.  But it's not supposed to be.  It's different, and I enjoyed our 5 hour six-some as much as any round I've played this year.  

Thinking about the collection of variables at DR reminds about my own organization.  You wouldn't know it from the press, but our Air Force's aircraft aren't the best in the world.  In fact, there's a few countries (Japan, Singapore, Israel, etc.) with much newer fleets and pricier equipment.  No, the reason we're the best is more than just the aircraft.  Our training is the best, our people are the best, our maintenance is the most reliable, and our support agencies are superior.  Dismal River--as a golf course--was already better than 90% of golf courses.  But the people involved there have made a tremendous difference.  The variables involved at DR make it better than the sum of its parts.  It's now hitting its stride and deservedly so.

I think it took some people with guts and vision to change the status quo at that club, and they have.  Guys like Chris and Jagger have changed the story of Dismal River and I think it is time that people get off the high horse and accept it for what is.  Which is a very good golf club.

Then it again, it doesn't hurt that a shiny new F-22 Raptor built by Lockheed...er Renaissance, is in the works for them either.  
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 04:46:58 PM by Ben Sims »

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2011, 04:53:11 PM »

Ben:

Great post.  Your love for golf courses clearly comes through. 

Congrats on the opportunity to help Renaissance on the project.  I am sure it was educational and exciting for you.  Based on your experience, what were your favorite holes on both courses and why?
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2011, 04:53:17 PM »
One last thing...Why hasn't Ron Csigo made it out to Dismal? What in the world is stopping him? Work?? LOL Beach Volleyball season's not over yet???

Eric,

I was talking to a fellow GCAer last week and would love nothing more than to come out to Dismal River and spend a few days on property with you, Mac, Chris, John, Adam and anyone else that may be around.  To me, the golf course at Dismal River looks intoxicating and would be a blast to play.  Although beach volleyball, the occasional slam dunk contest and work (my little talk show on late night ABC ;) ) often get in the way, those things will not deter me from joining you at Dismal soon.

Of course the real answer is that it isn't in the Top 100.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #58 on: September 27, 2011, 04:59:25 PM »

Clearly, Dismal River has become a favorite of the site. 

A good question for the long timers on the site - give the top 10 underrated "favorites" on the site? 

Kingsley?
Dismal River?
Deal?

Would like to get some perspective from past posts.  Thanks.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2011, 05:01:25 PM »
One last thing...Why hasn't Ron Csigo made it out to Dismal? What in the world is stopping him? Work?? LOL Beach Volleyball season's not over yet???

Eric,

I was talking to a fellow GCAer last week and would love nothing more than to come out to Dismal River and spend a few days on property with you, Mac, Chris, John, Adam and anyone else that may be around.  To me, the golf course at Dismal River looks intoxicating and would be a blast to play.  Although beach volleyball, the occasional slam dunk contest and work (my little talk show on late night ABC ;) ) often get in the way, those things will not deter me from joining you at Dismal soon.

Of course the real answer is that it isn't in the Top 100.

Jason - Shoot, it isn't in the top 200!  Thats why we are installing 201 yard markers on the course.

Ben - that was a great post.  We very much enjoyed having you out as well.  If you didn't like the bunker on #10, you did have access to the dozer...

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2011, 05:11:25 PM »

Clearly, Dismal River has become a favorite of the site. 

A good question for the long timers on the site - give the top 10 underrated "favorites" on the site? 

Kingsley?
Dismal River?
Deal?

Would like to get some perspective from past posts.  Thanks.

Perhaps this should be the topic of another thread.

But, a couple of nominations:

Bayside
Wine Valley
Kawartha (the most underrated in all of Canada)

Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2011, 05:17:17 PM »
One last thing...Why hasn't Ron Csigo made it out to Dismal? What in the world is stopping him? Work?? LOL Beach Volleyball season's not over yet???

Eric,

I was talking to a fellow GCAer last week and would love nothing more than to come out to Dismal River and spend a few days on property with you, Mac, Chris, John, Adam and anyone else that may be around.  To me, the golf course at Dismal River looks intoxicating and would be a blast to play.  Although beach volleyball, the occasional slam dunk contest and work (my little talk show on late night ABC ;) ) often get in the way, those things will not deter me from joining you at Dismal soon.

Of course the real answer is that it isn't in the Top 100.

The real answer is that I'm waiting on a certain no-fly list, Spartan banana-head to pick me up at the Omaha airport.   
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2011, 05:18:48 PM »

Jed,

You like to gamble? Book a ticket to Denver for Friday morning. Next Hater Retreat at Dismal starts at 4:00 (Mountain Time). I'll pick you up at the airport and get you back to Denver late Sunday afternoon. Let's see what kind of game you, me, Kavanaugh and Chris can come up with.


Eric:

In spite of being married to the coolest chick in the world (30+ days of fishing, 4 Boys only week-long vacations, 20+ rounds of golf in 2011) I think if I went on another trip, she'd cut my nuts off.

Oh yeah, I'm 35, and have a 3 year old and a 4 month old at home.....you do the math.

But yes, it's tempting....

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2011, 05:23:05 PM »
Brad:

Again, great review.  

In the review, you say that it is close to a top 100 Modern and certainly top 200 Modern.  In looking at your current rankings, you have Prairie Club (Dunes) ranked 116, Spanish Peaks at 126, Pete Dye at French Lick at 134 and Tetherow at 141.  How would you compare Dismal River with these courses?  It sounds like from your review that you think Dismal River falls into this ranking, but I would love your educated opinion.  

Thanks for your contributions to the site.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2011, 05:28:51 PM »
Mark:

I thought about adding another thread but did not think it was worth an entire thread.  I was just trying to get some gauge on the excitement for Dismal versus other places. 

It appears that Kingsley has a large following on the site, but it has not translated into a similar appreciation in the mag. rankings.  I have heard great things about the place, even though I have never been there. 

Just wondering whether there have been other courses where the opinion on this site differed greatly from the rankings or was a pre-cursor to a change in the rankings.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Sean_A

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Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2011, 06:05:13 PM »
At the very least #5 looks to be very severe because of the left to right angle of the tee shot.   If it plays predominately downwind I can see where folks where would moan, but I suspect it doesn't.

George

Some well respected courses of the GCA crowd which fail to make top 100 status include Wallasey, Pennard and Portrush Valley.  Beau Desert may be another, b ut I am not sure many gcaers have played it.  While I doubt any of these courses are worthy of top 100 world, in for a strong shout at top 100 GB&I. 

Ciao

 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2011, 06:26:57 PM »

As for the "sheep" mentality of this web site, I think it's more profound than that.  Sadly, most of the critical voices who were here three years ago are now gone, or largely silent, and frankly, half of the most vocal young guys don't know their head from their ass.


I really wonder which people you are talking about here.  Since I'm a "young guy" I'm a little confused and slightly offended as well.  Most of the younger posters on this site offer a ton to the board, and many I know aren't at all afraid to be critical.  But of course, what do I know?  Probably not my head from my ass, I guess.  ::)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 11:04:24 PM by JNC Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2011, 06:48:31 PM »

Clearly, Dismal River has become a favorite of the site.  

A good question for the long timers on the site - give the top 10 underrated "favorites" on the site?  

Kingsley?
Dismal River?
Deal?

Would like to get some perspective from past posts.  Thanks.

Deal and Dismal River are certainly near the top of the list--of course, I happen to be a big fan of both.  Others might be:

Tobacco Road
Ballyneal
Addington
Wolf Point
Long Shadow
Brora

These are courses that the general golfing population either has never heard of or will find too extreme.  As such, they get a lot of love out here, but they also have more than their share of critics.  I think these are the layouts that generate the most spirited and interesting discussion on GCA, mainly because they inspire such strong reactions.

As a side question, do those who like Brora have a "sheep mentality"?   ;D ;D
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 06:52:27 PM by JNC Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2011, 07:18:15 PM »
Based on your experience, what were your favorite holes on both courses and why?

Michael,

That's a tough question to answer.  I only played DR#1 the one time--other than chipping around the 16th green for a half hour or so with Jeff Stein and Robert--and saw a ton of 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 and 16 on DR#2, but only three trips around the whole course.  

On DR#1 I liked 9, 11, and 15.  I think those are the highlights in each of their respective categories.  #9 was clearly the best par five.  It is less in your face than the others and I like subtle par 5's.  #11 was a cool tee shot and an even cooler approach.  Losing sight of the ground in front right of the green makes you think a run-up isn't possible, when in fact it may be the preferred play.  #15 was the most stirring of the par three's by a wide margin, and as noted I'm okay with #5 and not so wild about #10 as a bunker-in-the-green hole.  Other holes I made a point to reexamine were 2, 7, 16 and 17.  Holes I wasn't as wild about were 6, 10, 13 and 18.  I just felt like there was some off-kilter characteristics of those.  

On DR#2, I was particularly fond of 3, 4, 10, 14 and 15.  Everyone's going to coo about #9 and #16-#18.  And with good reason.  But those other holes will merit more attention than I think they'll receive.  There's a soild chance that this could rival Ballyneal as the best set of one-shotters in Renaissance's quiver; #3 being my favorite based mostly on how it's just, there.  #14 takes what I think is the over-used "lion's mouth" concept and puts a fresh twist--literally--on it.  I love the look of that greensite.  #15 has some fearsome concepts in that it's short, but devilish in how exacting it'll be.  The green complex reminds me a lot of #5 at Wolf Point.  

This is all ridiculous conjecture by the way Michael.  It's way to early to get really serious with "how good" this and "how does it compare" that.  I think it's going to be very cool, how's that?  Honestly, I am just excited to see some grass on it and can't wait to bust my tail for those guys again sometime.  

  
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 07:43:14 PM by Ben Sims »

Jim Nugent

Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2011, 09:37:02 PM »

A good question for the long timers on the site - give the top 10 underrated "favorites" on the site? 


Rock Creek would make the list. 

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2011, 10:53:26 PM »
John Lyon: add Huntercombe to the list for sure.

Ben Sims:

Quote
On DR#2, I was particularly fond of 3, 4, 10, 14 and 15.  Everyone's going to coo about #9 and #16-#18.  And with good reason.  But those other holes will merit more attention than I think they'll receive.  There's a soild chance that this could rival Ballyneal as the best set of one-shotters in Renaissance's quiver; #3 being my favorite based mostly on how it's just, there.  #14 takes what I think is the over-used "lion's mouth" concept and puts a fresh twist--literally--on it.  I love the look of that greensite.  #15 has some fearsome concepts in that it's short, but devilish in how exacting it'll be.  The green complex reminds me a lot of #5 at Wolf Point.

We're not even letting holes get built before we pick favourites? And as for the claim of "best set of one-shotters in Renaissance's quiver" that seems a tremendous call regarding holes that don't exist yet from someone who hasn't played at least three of the firm's most well-regarded courses (Kidnappers, Barnbougle, St Andrews Beach).
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 10:55:04 PM by Scott Warren »

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2011, 11:02:19 PM »
John Lyon: add Huntercombe to the list for sure.

Ben Sims:

Quote
On DR#2, I was particularly fond of 3, 4, 10, 14 and 15.  Everyone's going to coo about #9 and #16-#18.  And with good reason.  But those other holes will merit more attention than I think they'll receive.  There's a soild chance that this could rival Ballyneal as the best set of one-shotters in Renaissance's quiver; #3 being my favorite based mostly on how it's just, there.  #14 takes what I think is the over-used "lion's mouth" concept and puts a fresh twist--literally--on it.  I love the look of that greensite.  #15 has some fearsome concepts in that it's short, but devilish in how exacting it'll be.  The green complex reminds me a lot of #5 at Wolf Point.

We're not even letting holes get built before we pick favourites? And as for the claim of "best set of one-shotters in Renaissance's quiver" that seems a tremendous call regarding holes that don't exist yet from someone who hasn't played at least three of the firm's most well-regarded courses (Kidnappers, Barnbougle, St Andrews Beach).

Huntercombe for sure!  I'm also a huge fan of that one, and there are a bunch of fans of the course on GCA.  I'm also guessing that's a course the average golf will not understand.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2011, 11:08:45 PM »
John Lyon: add Huntercombe to the list for sure.

Ben Sims:

Quote
On DR#2, I was particularly fond of 3, 4, 10, 14 and 15.  Everyone's going to coo about #9 and #16-#18.  And with good reason.  But those other holes will merit more attention than I think they'll receive.  There's a soild chance that this could rival Ballyneal as the best set of one-shotters in Renaissance's quiver; #3 being my favorite based mostly on how it's just, there.  #14 takes what I think is the over-used "lion's mouth" concept and puts a fresh twist--literally--on it.  I love the look of that greensite.  #15 has some fearsome concepts in that it's short, but devilish in how exacting it'll be.  The green complex reminds me a lot of #5 at Wolf Point.

We're not even letting holes get built before we pick favourites? And as for the claim of "best set of one-shotters in Renaissance's quiver" that seems a tremendous call regarding holes that don't exist yet from someone who hasn't played at least three of the firm's most well-regarded courses (Kidnappers, Barnbougle, St Andrews Beach).

He said "could."

We get that you're tired of Dismal River threads; I just wonder why you keep reading and posting in them.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2011, 11:08:52 PM »
Scott:

He helped build the holes.  I think that more than qualifies him to make a judgment about them.   We spend 4 hours on a course one time and think we can judge it.  He lived there for a week and you have to be critical.  Honestly, other than Chris, Ben probably deserves the right to be excited about the course.  

Ben:  

Thanks for your thoughts - as that is exactly what I asked for.  I fully understand the qualifiers that you put in your opinion, but it provided some nice input where I can enjoy the update posts from Chris.  I will certainly be on the look-out for the holes that you mention.  Thanks.
 
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why I have a "Dismal" bumper sticker on my car
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2011, 11:10:37 PM »
Scott:

He helped build the holes.  I think that more than qualifies him to make a judgment about them.   We spend 4 hours on a course one time and think we can judge it.  He lived there for a week and you have to be critical.  Honestly, other than Chris, Ben probably deserves the right to be excited about the course.  


But it is more fun to be the turd in the punchbowl.  If only the European Club flame hadn't fizzled....
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.