How many times do you have to play a course to know it's great....?

[David_Elvins]

Tom Doak,

My wife and I got engaged after two weeks

Do you mind if i ask how and why?

[Brad Klein]

David,

We lived in WAY upstate New York on the Canadian border, closer to Ottawa than to Lake Placid. Cold winters, often 30-below at night, and it was warmer under the covers with two than alone. We've since moved to a more rational climate, and it's still easier this way.

Brad

[Adam Clayman]

Tom, I too thought of PB after reading Brad's comment, but, I came to the conclusion that it still passed the smell test of what he said. It still tugs at your heart, if you are paying close attention. Sure it starts slowly, with the first green site and then the Baranka on 2, but, if you fail to feel it by # 3 you, need a cardiac specialist to find your heart. Besides he didn't say fall in love, he said, stirring in your heart (soul). BTW, that's the old #3.

[Anthony Gray]

  I think actually greatness may deminish with repeated plays. I have played TOC and PB at least 20 times each and it is never as good as the first time. Perhaps the only course that sustains my love is Cruden Bay.

  Anthony

[Mac Plumart]

it should not require multiple visits to get the essence of something, though it will require multiple visits to get the subtle detail in place, and ideally a great golf course continually reveals itself each time to have more than you thought

This is good stuff Brad...all students, write it down...keep it in your files.

[John Kavanaugh]

As with all things in life, what is great for me may not be great for Anthony.  To try to discover and promote courses great for both of us pushes everything towards the middle. 

If I can hate a man I have never met why is it so hard to believe I could love a woman I have known for two weeks.

[Brad Klein]

Mac, I'm working on a book of those; a cross between Haiku and Twitter

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't hate such people; I just ignore them.

Thanks for responding to me.  I do tend to hate many people I meet along the road while driving which is a situation where ignoring them becomes dangerous.  I think the very fact that I can not ignore those who annoy me fosters my hate.
 

[Chip Gaskins]

Sometimes you know before you put a peg in the ground, for instance standing on the porch at Shinnecock.  Other times you have to play it a few times to really understand and love it, example The Old Course.

Sand Hills was the 1st tee..
Pine Valley was the 2nd green..
Royal County Down was by the 4 tee shot..
Ballyneal was the 4th tee shot..
Riviera was 8th hole..
etc

Cypress point took the whole course as did Prairie Dunes.

And for me, some take 2-3 times like Merion and National and Oakmont and still I may never see its greatness...Again, all personal opinion.

[Philippe Binette]

you can almost feel greatness just walking around the clubhouse and getting to the first tee.

you can feel it the first time around... but you'll get the greatness and start to understand it the second time around

and you know the best part about greatness, every time around it keeps getting better

[Kevin Pallier]

Its obviously not an exact science and people's definitions and scales of "greatness" vary.....though mine is along the lines of going out of one's way to see.

I think an appreciation of a course can be determined after one visit.




 

[Mark Chaplin]

Kevin - I think you can appreciate a course in one round but it takes four or five rounds to properly understand a course. I came away from RM having played the West four times in five days with a pretty good understanding of the course rather than just appreciating good holes.

[Kevin Pallier]

Mark

I think it depends on the person and their experience. There's many on here with whoms opinion I value more than others and it doesn't necessarily have to be multiple visits to a course for me to value same in comparison to my own thoughts on how "great" a course is.

[Mac Plumart]

Mark

I think it depends on the person and their experience. There's many on here with whoms opinion I value more than others and it doesn't necessarily have to be multiple visits to a course for me to value same in comparison to my own thoughts on how "great" a course is.

Kevin...

I think that is a good post.  I'd rather here some detail as to "why" people think a course is great rather than simply stating it is a great.  I want to see if they appear to value what I value. 

[Mark Chaplin]

My view is one round gives you a one dimentional view of each hole. Hit a great drive and you may have a straight forward approach but slightly off line may fully display the sublety of the hole. How differently does it play when you are wrong sided, etc, etc.

Take a hole like 12 ANGC probably a solid 7 iron, play it once and if you hit the middle of the green and two putt on a still day can you genuinely truly understand the hole?

Playing 90% of my golf on a links course magnifies this many times over as the wind strength, wind direction and degree of bounce make the course play VERY differently often on a round by round basis.

[Dan Kelly]

My view is one round gives you a one dimentional view of each hole. Hit a great drive and you may have a straight forward approach but slightly off line may fully display the sublety of the hole. How differently does it play when you are wrong sided, etc, etc.

Take a hole like 12 ANGC probably a solid 7 iron, play it once and if you hit the middle of the green and two putt on a still day can you genuinely truly understand the hole?

Playing 90% of my golf on a links course magnifies this many times over as the wind strength, wind direction and degree of bounce make the course play VERY differently often on a round by round basis.

I'll repeat myself: If you keep your eyes open, and you use your imagination (imagining different winds, different hole locations, different turf conditions), you should be able to sense greatness (and the very different ways the course will play) the first time around.

One might not be able to describe that greatness in every detail after one round -- but, of course, the same might be said after a thousand rounds, because the thousand-and-first round might well reveal something  you hadn't quite seen before!

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I assume all of the responses thus far have been made assuming a priori knowledge of the course? You could not say that a totally unknown course is great after playing just three holes; the next 15 holes might be duds.

[John Kavanaugh]

I assume all of the responses thus far have been made assuming a priori knowledge of the course? You could not say that a totally unknown course is great after playing just three holes; the next 15 holes might be duds.

How about Spyglass?