A true golf course architect should be designing the Olympics Course - not pros

[Randy Thompson]

Mike and Mike,
I agree with what your saying! What I am saying or advocating is what should be done, not what will be done! I think saying this earlier in the day coinsides with what you are both saying,
But all this most likely will be wishfull thinking, Brazil is on center stage and with all lights on them and they will feel pressured to show the world something big and dramatic, not to mention the politics. And even though the dollar is weaking throughout the world, It is still ALLMIGHTY and that will cause more of what we have seen in the past, over and over. When you sum up these factors, common sence goes out the window and has little chance!
Mike N.
One point you make I don´t think is so black and white and that is in relation to the final decision rest in the oylimpic committees hands. They mabe cutting the cake and will get credit or take blame for the final decision but there all lots involved, ie, R&A, USGA, PGA, Brazilian golf federation, govermental brazilian officals, ect. Thats why it taken so long, its not so clear where the money comes from to begin with and who profits afterwards.

[Ulrich Mayring]

I like the 18 major champions idea, let them come together as a jury that selects the best entry. Which would of course have to come from someone outside the jury. Hence, every self-professed lover and sponsor of the game can decide whether he is willing to give up his own ambitions and serve as a jury member.

Ulrich

[JMEvensky]

I guess there is no room for a bad joke about how much the rough protecting the green needs to be shaved back on a Brazilian course?

I kept reading the thread waiting for the inevitable Brazilian joke--but this one is better than expected.

[PCCraig]

Define a "true" golf course architect.

[Mike_Young]

If you think the Olympics are not on their way out.  The US Olympic Committee said today it would not put a bid in for the 2020 olympics.

[Ronald Montesano]

I cannot cease to be amazed by the arrogance of Faldo, et al, when it comes to their posturing for this course. That it is not being offered to a Brazilian golf course architect is reprehensible, condescending and unforgivable. Imagine our ire if some similar breach of decorum occurred in the good old lower 48, not just for any old course, but the one specifically being built to host golf's return to the Olympics.

[Matt Day]

Ronald
The birds nest in beijing was designed by a swiss company and the English olympic stadium is designed by a company with its headquarters in Kansas, why is not okay to have the golf course designed by someone other a brazilian?

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I cannot cease to be amazed by the arrogance of Faldo, et al, when it comes to their posturing for this course. That it is not being offered to a Brazilian golf course architect is reprehensible, condescending and unforgivable. Imagine our ire if some similar breach of decorum occurred in the good old lower 48, not just for any old course, but the one specifically being built to host golf's return to the Olympics.

I take it this post is tongue in cheek?

Didn't you mean "thong in cheek"? 

Sorry couldn't resist.

Anyone know how many courses there are in Brazil, and are they any good.  Were they designed by a Brazilian?

[Philip Spogard]

It needs to be public and be acessible to the middle class brazilian afterwards and maybe at a more expenisve price for the international traveler. Who cares who designs it as long as it get done correctly and economically efficient, so that the game can continue to grow in Brazil.

Couldn't be more spot on!

[Bill Brightly]

What if "commercialism" and good gca were combined in this new course? Let's say Randy Thompson or some other good architect was named to manage the project, and each PGA/LPGA "name" was allowed to "design" a hole or two? It would be a pain in the a$$ for the archy, but if he could control the basic routing, deal with the "names" and build a course in a consistent style, maybe it would work. Perhaps it could be viewed as a version of the "dream team" that worked on Old Macdonald.

I have no doubt that this would not be an architect's first choice, but would any turn down the job?

[Ronald Montesano]

Neither tongue in cheek nor thong in cheek. This should be an enterprise of extreme nationalism. The argument about the other-nation countries that did work in China is irrelevant; China was not emerging from a slumber where its own people did little. Brasil re-entered the world stage under Lula and is desperately attempting to keep that momentum going. I don't care if a Brasilian architect works with a a lass or chap from another country...it seems to me that it keeps getting worse with the asinine entrants and suggestions and that a Brasilian hand on the kettle and spoon (if necessary, with guidance) are the way to go.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Give me "A True Golf Course Architect" any day, but do we know any, do they exist?

Perhaps the Olympics should use the Championship courses of the country hosting the event, saving money and hopefully keeping out the R&A. PGA USGA and Anthony Gray too.

Why spend good money on designing an Olympic course let alone building just one. Think numbers may necessitate more than one course or the event will need to start 6 months before the Olympics.  Hell, the thought of say, 10 new courses just for the Olympics from 10 different designers, oh well so much for consistency.

Melvyn

[Mike_Young]

Neither tongue in cheek nor thong in cheek. This should be an enterprise of extreme nationalism. The argument about the other-nation countries that did work in China is irrelevant; China was not emerging from a slumber where its own people did little. Brasil re-entered the world stage under Lula and is desperately attempting to keep that momentum going. I don't care if a Brasilian architect works with a a lass or chap from another country...it seems to me that it keeps getting worse with the asinine entrants and suggestions and that a Brasilian hand on the kettle and spoon (if necessary, with guidance) are the way to go.

Ronald,
I don't know how much you have worked in Latin America but IMHO and experience it is different.  We catch all kinds of hell here in the U.S for the "rich vs. poor" stuff but in those countries it is much more prevalent.  In the late 1980's or early 90's I tried to work there and sent a shaper down for a few weeks.  The green chair took the drawings and actually had the shaper place a green backwards because he thought it would look better.  The guy was at the top(I think) club in Brazil at the time and  all these guys would do is show up at the club in the mornings, get the barber to shave them.  Walk outside after coffee, eat lunch, play golf and go home.  If they came to the states they would buy a dozen Pickering shirts from Doral and everyone there wore Doral shirts.  I don't know how different it is now but I would fear Brazilian involvement.

[Randy Thompson]

There are no real Brazilan Architects, in the last couple of years a few related professionals from other fiields have put on the hat and designed a website looking to make easy money and some have done one or two courses but have absolutely no knowledge or qualifications. Dan Blankenship, an American, once a shaper for PB dye has been working there for about twenty years and living there for about eight to ten years and has done several courses, maybe ten to fifteen and most are decent and respectable. I doubt they are even considering him in any way or form but IMHO, that is a slap in the face, he should be involved in some way or form. He has really helped the game grow there but some would say, so what, he was rightfully compensated. Anyways, my point is trying to award this to a Brazialian architect would be a disaster, seriously, my wife is more qualified and would give better results and if this is true, can you imagine how much better Tom Doak´s wife could do!!

[Jay Flemma]

Here's an idea: if you MUST have commericialism, then achieve it with the name of the course, not the designers.  Firestone and NCR are/were good golf courses that had corporate names.  Get Jones or Dye or Doak to build the course and sell the right to name it to a big corp for money that could go back into the course.

And yes, make sure it stays public and affordable.

[Randy Thompson]

Jay,
Not bad, I would make one alternation, remove Jones and add Coore´s. Pete needs no commercialism, he is at the end of his career and anything he attaches his name to is only to help his sons future´s. Coore´s and Doak seem to already have the cream on anything coming on line anyways and are really are already at the top; so where do go from there? Therefore they have no need for commercialism either. We don´t know about pete and bill but tom has stated he will do it for an all expense paid trip to the olympics for the family. If his kids are willing to fly in economy, that might be doable and still fit into a reasonable budget. Pete´s kids are to big to want to go to the olympics so that gives him a slight advantage, have to see what bill will do it for. Ah then we got get rid of all the current bonehead, corrupt, closed minded, decision makers!

[Tom_Doak]

Anyways, my point is trying to award this to a Brazialian architect would be a disaster, seriously, my wife is more qualified and would give better results and if this is true, can you imagine how much better Tom Doak´s wife could do!!

My wife's response:  she has no desire to build a golf course in Brazil.  [I think she found it a little bit uncomfortable, she's not a fan of heat and humidity having grown up in Michigan.]  She would prefer just to watch the boys play footvolley at Ipanema.  But, her mom was an English teacher, so she would love to correct the grammar of many posters here!


Jay:

Trust me, whoever winds up doing this course, it will be named the Olympic Golf Course as that is its path to riches (or survival).  And I am confident that the Brazilian guys I met will get it funded appropriately.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Interesting question: How hard should the Olympic Course be designed?

I wonder if NOT embarassing the lesser teams will be a factor, and if the course should be somewhat easier than a Tour Pro venue?

[Kalen Braley]

This is about the time that Shivas chimes in to tell us he should move to Iran for a few years so he can get citizenship and play for the National team in the Olympics!!   

[Peter Pallotta]

If I were an architect, I'd be very happy to stay a million miles away from this one.  When golf is no longer an Olympic sport (and that day will come, sooner than we think), and when all the financial facts and figures about the (inevitable) waste and over-spending involved in creating the Olympic infrastructure are made public, this golf course will become a poster child for all that is wicked and evil within the bloated and greedy IOC, and with international amateur athletics in general.  And with the next change in government, the new batch of politicians will point a harsh and accusing finger at the out-going batch, and to prove they're serious will plow under the golf course and turn it into a communal farm for the growing of hemp. The 'winning' architect will spend the next 20 years repeating the same strained PR line  about how pleased he is that so many people are being gainfully employed growing such an environmentally-friendly crop.

Peter 

PS - Kalen, good one!