[Lynn_Shackelford]

I forget the guy's name, but the one who always seemed to be threatening to make a cut in majors was the head pro at Oakmont CC.  I am guessing his duties as club pro prevented him from playing 3 times a week, but I don't know.  I am assuming he played in all the local events, but to get out there among the world's best and be competitive seemed that maybe he should have zigged and not zagged and made a living from playing on the Tour.

[Michael Ryan]

I just went to the dictionary and looked up " bitter" and it was a picture of 80% of the PGA Club Professionals currently in the business.  Talk about a crew who takes their peers out at the knees...I have several really good friends who are in the business-seems like the minute one of them wins a tournament, section championship, etc. someone is calling the section office questioning their status.  Mike Small is a "PGA Professional" and should be celebrated.  Wish more guys with Dean's attitude would follow his lead and get out of the business.

[Dean Stokes]

I just went to the dictionary and looked up " bitter" and it was a picture of 80% of the PGA Club Professionals currently in the business.  Talk about a crew who takes their peers out at the knees...I have several really good friends who are in the business-seems like the minute one of them wins a tournament, section championship, etc. someone is calling the section office questioning their status.  Mike Small is a "PGA Professional" and should be celebrated.  Wish more guys with Dean's attitude would follow his lead and get out of the business.

They are doing don't worry.........I talk to them regularly. ps. only 80%.....I think it's closer to 95%

[Peter Ferlicca]

This is an interesting thread.  I am currently a PGA apprentice assistant professional in the Desert Chapter in Southern California.  I am actually getting out of the business and going into turfgrass to hopefully become a superintendent.  Many reasons, but golf pro jobs are thinning out by the minute and being replaced by people who can just do budget work and can fold a mean shirt.  The need for a good playing pro who runs tournaments really isn't needed that often anymore at a lot of golf clubs.  Most places just have a teaching pro and maybe a head professional, no assistants at all, just ladies who can run the register and fold shirts.  So the head pro usually has a huge work load and never has anytime to play golf.  What is the point of hiring an assistant pro for $13 an hour when you can hire a pretty lady for $10 an hour to pretty much do the same thing except teach lessons.  

About playing in tournaments, the two best players in the southern california section are both guys that are teaching pros. They teach one day a week, but really play and practice the other 6 days.  They just play in every tournament possible and dominate all of them pretty much.  There is nothing wrong with that, but competing against guys that have to work 5 days a week and can only play 2 days a week, make it harder for them to compete.

[jeffwarne]

This is an interesting thread.  I am currently a PGA apprentice assistant professional in the Desert Chapter in Southern California.  I am actually getting out of the business and going into turfgrass to hopefully become a superintendent.  Many reasons, but golf pro jobs are thinning out by the minute and being replaced by people who can just do budget work and can fold a mean shirt.  The need for a good playing pro who runs tournaments really isn't needed that often anymore at a lot of golf clubs.  Most places just have a teaching pro and maybe a head professional, no assistants at all, just ladies who can run the register and fold shirts.  So the head pro usually has a huge work load and never has anytime to play golf.  What is the point of hiring an assistant pro for $13 an hour when you can hire a pretty lady for $10 an hour to pretty much do the same thing except teach lessons. 

About playing in tournaments, the two best players in the southern california section are both guys that really dont work.  Chris Starkjohann who is the quote unquote teaching pro at Torrey Pines, which means he might teach one day a week, but really play and practice the other 6 days.  The other is Butch Sheenan who works at Indian Wells Country Club, once again a teaching pro, but really just plays with the members 5 days a week, and might give a couple lessons here and there.   They just play in every tournament possible and dominate all of them pretty much. 

Peter,
As a golf professional for 23 years I'll give you a piece of advice.
Figure out what you'd like to get of golf and go do it.
Why bemoan two successful playing professionals?
Why not emulate them?
Playing golf with members can be and is work-if that's what you want to do, find such a position and do it.
I'm guessing there are at least two pros out there who won't recomend you (if they've ever heard of you)

Not everybody's folding shirts and doing budgets.
Has the PGA brainwashed everybody to believe they should never play, fold shirts, get into Club management and neglect their games?    and that those who don't follow that mold should feel guilty because they play golf and practice?

As an employer I'm looking for people who can play(and spend time working on their game),teach, and get along well with the members.
All that other stuff can be done by the pretty girl you describe.

Nobody's looking for apprentices that fold a mean shirt and have a chip on their shoulder about the success of others

[Peter Ferlicca]

Jeff,

I don't really have a chip on my shoulder at all about those two guys, I wish I could have a career like that playing that well.  To be honest my game really isn't up to snuff to be able to be a PGA pro.  I was decent at first, but it seems like my game has progessively gotten worse, and it gets embarrasing to play with members and shoot a bad score.  Those two guys are great guys and beloved by a lot of people, they don't even know me.  I was just mentioning two people that are sort of what Dean is explaining. 

You don't need to make me feel bad for a reference, because I am actually getting out of the PGA business and going into Turfgrass because I would rather be out setting up a golf course instead of sitting in a golf shop.  And I have worked at qute a few nice places I don't need those guys to recommend me, thank you very much.  I don't know where you are located Jeff, but out here in So-Cal almost so many assistant pros do the exact same thing, stand behind the register and check people in all day.  I have the pleasure of running ladies day, mens day, and doing lessons.  I don't mind my job at all right now, its just not what I want to be doing my whole life.  Out here there are a lot of head pros that probably play less than 10 times a year, its pretty bad.  They just don't have the time or the want to play.  I don't have a chip on my shoulder Jeff, its just not what I want to be doing and I have realized that now.  So you don't need to worry about looking for my resume.  It is just that the past 3 high end clubs I have worked at I have seen pro jobs getting cut, so I know that being a PGA in the golf business doesn't guarentee you a good job.   You are probably a great pro and you most likely have assistants that enjoy working for you, not all head pros can say that.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

I don't really have a chip on my shoulder at all about those two guys, I wish I could have a career like that playing that well.  To be honest my game really isn't up to snuff to be able to be a PGA pro.  I was decent at first, but it seems like my game has progessively gotten worse, and it gets embarrasing to play with members and shoot a bad score.  Those two guys are great guys and beloved by a lot of people, they don't even know me.  I was just mentioning two people that are sort of what Dean is explaining. 

You don't need to make me feel bad for a reference, because I am actually getting out of the PGA business and going into Turfgrass because I would rather be out setting up a golf course instead of sitting in a golf shop.  And I have worked at qute a few nice places I don't need those guys to recommend me, thank you very much.  I don't know where you are located Jeff, but out here in So-Cal almost so many assistant pros do the exact same thing, stand behind the register and check people in all day.  I have the pleasure of running ladies day, mens day, and doing lessons.  I don't mind my job at all right now, its just not what I want to be doing my whole life.  Out here there are a lot of head pros that probably play less than 10 times a year, its pretty bad.  They just don't have the time or the want to play.  I don't have a chip on my shoulder Jeff, its just not what I want to be doing and I have realized that now.  So you don't need to worry about looking for my resume.  It is just that the past 3 high end clubs I have worked at I have seen pro jobs getting cut, so I know that being a PGA in the golf business doesn't guarentee you a good job.   You are probably a great pro and you most likely have assistants that enjoy working for you, not all head pros can say that.

Peter,
A good, frank response.
The golf business is certainly tough, and an aspiring pro must be willing to work hard, sacrifice, and relocate to make his way.
I certainly am glad I relocated to the the MET Section which is very traditional in the role of golf professionals.
Best of luck in the turf industry.

[Mike Erdmann]

Again guys, this was nothing to do with Mike Small, who I don't know and who I congratulate on his performance. This is really about the humor I find every year in the PGA portraying the 25 guys who make it to this championship as your standard golf club/shop professional. Your average club pro doesnt even have the time to play enough to keep their game in shape to qualify for the national club pro championship! Good luck to these guys and enjoy your championship....I just find it slightly misleading to the tv viewers who presume these guys will be ordering footjoys tomorrow morning....lol. That's all. I didn't want an argument this fine Sunday am....enjoy the golf today......good luck Mr. Small.

So now we've moved from bemoaning Mike Small to insinuating that the other club pros in the PGA Championship aren't your standard golf club/shop professional?  I take a bit of umbrage at that, as my brother was one of those 20 guys in the field at the PGA. He's very much a club/shop professional, in fact he's still an assistant pro - ordering supplies, managing the bag room, running tournaments and giving lessons.  And yes, he'll be selling Footjoys tomorrow morning. Many of the other club pros in the field are exactly the same. 

[Pat Burke]

IMO
There ARE way too many guys that fudge the "rules" for eligibility.
Guys playing in mini tour events, and events off the radar who violate the spirit of the rule (again my opinion)
The PGA allows it, well because they really don't care, as long as they raise the money they want.
It is not the CPC any more, so the PGA can allow all these guys to play.
IF it was still about club professionals, they wouldn't schedule the national championship at a time of year when
guys who are club pros are at their busiest.  Can't imagine my dad missing a week in the summer
 to go to Hershey for the CPC.

Someone mentioned on an earlier post that guys who cheat these rules are no different than guys who would cheat otherwise
(paraphrased).  Well, if the ruling organization keeps looking the other way, the ruling organization is no different than a playing partner who allows a fellow player to cheat.

Mike Small is a great guy, good player, and IS playing by the current rules btw!  He happens to have a job within the rules that allows him to maintain a game.  So, it's not his fault!

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