Atlanta Athletic Club criticism getting old

[Eric Strulowitz]

What a wondeful venue.  Attended a practice day and the first championship round yesterday, and I heartily give this venue a thumbs up!

One crticism I have heard is how difficult the course is, given the bunkering, the forced carries for the par 3's, the length, the mounding, and some of the elevated greens.  While walking the course, I made a point of walking past the members and forward tees, and visualizing shots,  and the course looked quite playable.  Not a cakewalk by any stretch, but very playable.  Very sad, how so many look at the course from the perspective of the pro tees, that is silly.   One of the biggest problems with golf is players playing from the wrong tees.  See it almost everytime I play.  Sad,  how people think they are better then they are.  And even sadder, to seeing so many out  there cussing and throwing fits because they are not getting the results they expect.  If they played from the RIGHT tees, they just might get those results.

Now I also heard some criticism about the conditions, how perfect they are. That this is  raising the bar to another level.  Take it for what it is, this is a very exclusive club.  They have the resources to get these conditions.   I do not expect these conditions at my club, will not see these kind of conditions at most clubs.    I could not help but admire everything I saw.  They are not setting some type of new standard, it is just their standard.  It is a very special club, with a very exclusive membership I am sure.  I am happy for them, let them enjoy it,  and just because our home courses are not that pristine should not in anyway mean we are getting an inferior experience.   The extent of greenness and manicuredness does not define the golf experience, this is a false standard.

Yes, the course is hard.  I enjoyed seeing the pros stuggle and enjoyed even more some amazing recovery shots.   Remember first and foremost, we go to these events for entertainment and to see the best do their craft.  If the course is setup like most of the courses we play on a daily basis , these guys would kill it  and the cut would be so low it would be hard to imagine, maybe 15 below or lower?  Everyone I spoke to at the event seemed to be having a good time.  I say job well done AAC!

[Garland Bayley]

How many forced carries over water does the typical links course have?

How many ponds on par 3s do the typical links courses have.

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

Time to drop the RTJ standards for what is a good course and get with the program.

[Matthew Petersen]

How many forced carries over water does the typical links course have?

How many ponds on par 3s do the typical links courses have.

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

Time to drop the RTJ standards for what is a good course and get with the program.

Ah, the internet. Where opinions can be wrong.

[Mark Saltzman]

Garland,

what happened to "ding-dong, you're wrong?"  I think that would've been a shorter answer that would more clearly have gotten your point across.

[Bill_McBride]

How many forced carries over water does the typical links course have?

How many ponds on par 3s do the typical links courses have.

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

Time to drop the RTJ standards for what is a good course and get with the program.

Why would you bring links courses into the discussion of this parkland course?

[JMEvensky]

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

I guess if AAC was worried about average golfers they wouldn't have spent the dollars renovating their golf course in this manner.Apparently,the members are OK with it.

AAC is a private club.If someone doesn't like the golf course,nobody is going to force them to join and pay dues.

They wanted a golf course to challenge the best players--what the hell does that have to do with average golfers.

[Mark Saltzman]

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

I guess if AAC was worried about average golfers they wouldn't have spent the dollars renovating their golf course in this manner.Apparently,the members are OK with it.

AAC is a private club.If someone doesn't like the golf course,nobody is going to force them to join and pay dues.

They wanted a golf course to challenge the best players--what the hell does that have to do with average golfers.

The small % of members on the board who make these decisions are not necessarily representative of an entire membership.  Having spoken to a couple of members, it is certainly not the entirety of the membership that wants this type of golf course. 

That being said, of course you are correct that they can choose to leave and join elsewhere.

[John Kavanaugh]

Unless you want your course to end up like this you need to speak up now. Sonn there will be no place to go if you simply choose to leave.

[JMEvensky]

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

I guess if AAC was worried about average golfers they wouldn't have spent the dollars renovating their golf course in this manner.Apparently,the members are OK with it.

AAC is a private club.If someone doesn't like the golf course,nobody is going to force them to join and pay dues.

They wanted a golf course to challenge the best players--what the hell does that have to do with average golfers.

The small % of members on the board who make these decisions are not necessarily representative of an entire membership.  Having spoken to a couple of members, it is certainly not the entirety of the membership that wants this type of golf course. 

That being said, of course you are correct that they can choose to leave and join elsewhere.

I,too,have spoken to some AAC members.The "small percentage" argument is frequently a canard--usually trotted out by a different "small percentage".

Was only a "small percentage" required to pass a capital assessment or capital expenditure?How many members left as a result of the changes and/or having to pay for something they didn't want?

One of the verities of country club votes is that when somebody says a small percentage rammed through a decision--they weren't able to find a majority of members who agreed with them.

[Mark Saltzman]

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

I guess if AAC was worried about average golfers they wouldn't have spent the dollars renovating their golf course in this manner.Apparently,the members are OK with it.

AAC is a private club.If someone doesn't like the golf course,nobody is going to force them to join and pay dues.

They wanted a golf course to challenge the best players--what the hell does that have to do with average golfers.

The small % of members on the board who make these decisions are not necessarily representative of an entire membership.  Having spoken to a couple of members, it is certainly not the entirety of the membership that wants this type of golf course. 

That being said, of course you are correct that they can choose to leave and join elsewhere.

I,too,have spoken to some AAC members.The "small percentage" argument is frequently a canard--usually trotted out by a different "small percentage".

Was only a "small percentage" required to pass a capital assessment or capital expenditure?How many members left as a result of the changes and/or having to pay for something they didn't want?

One of the verities of country club votes is that when somebody says a small percentage rammed through a decision--they weren't able to find a majority of members who agreed with them.

Sir,

You may well be correct.  I can do no more than repeat what was told to me by a couple of members.

[JMEvensky]

Sir,

You may well be correct.  I can do no more than repeat what was told to me by a couple of members.

I came off as a prick and certainly didn't mean to.For that,I apologize.

It's just that I'm a veteran of this kind of country club stuff.All too often,I hear "I talked to a couple of members at XYZ Club..." and that somehow becomes ontological fact.

Most club Boards,in my experience,aren't smart enough or clever enough to pass something against a membership's will.The Boards I was on certainly weren't--which may or may not be a coincidence.

[PThomas]

good post Eric

[RJ_Daley]

So, how do the two courses compare between the Riversides and Highlands loops?  Does tjat factor into whether the members have enough less demanding, yet good golf holes to enjoy?

[John Kavanaugh]

good post Eric

Paul,

Do you agree with Brad that Atlantic Athletic Club is a top 100 course?  

[Sam Morrow]

How many forced carries over water does the typical links course have?

How many ponds on par 3s do the typical links courses have.

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

Time to drop the RTJ standards for what is a good course and get with the program.

How many seaside links are there in Atlanta?

[Garland Bayley]

How many forced carries over water does the typical links course have?

How many ponds on par 3s do the typical links courses have.

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

Time to drop the RTJ standards for what is a good course and get with the program.

How many seaside links are there in Atlanta?

I used links as short hand for the traditions of golf. I could have asked how many artificial ponds does Tom Doak put on his courses?

Golf is more enjoyable in a match if you can hit a recovery shot and try to get back in competition for a hole. How many would disagree with that? How many can hit recovery shot from the bottom of a pond?

I don't care what a bunch of stuffed shirt members of the board of the club think. Brad Klein often meets with such people and literally tells them they are stupid.

Why do we need to have courses like this televised so that everyman gets the idea that golf is no fun, because he knows very well he can't miss those ponds to save his life. The top players don't need ponds on courses to test their talents. Look at Chambers Bay causing the best amateurs in the world to average over 80 shots in a round. But yet, if I dump it in the ravine in front of #3, while Kalen misses right on the hill, the play of the hole still matters. I have a chance of recovering, and making a contest of the hole even though I am deeper in doo doo than he is.

[Garland Bayley]

At Mark's request.

Ding dong, you're wrong.
What is getting old is the promotion of the dark ages style courses.

[Sam Morrow]

How many forced carries over water does the typical links course have?

How many ponds on par 3s do the typical links courses have.

Methinks this is a slog for the average golfer. I much prefer playing a possible recovery from the bottom on a depression over taking underwater swings.

Time to drop the RTJ standards for what is a good course and get with the program.

How many seaside links are there in Atlanta?

I used links as short hand for the traditions of golf. I could have asked how many artificial ponds does Tom Doak put on his courses?

Golf is more enjoyable in a match if you can hit a recovery shot and try to get back in competition for a hole. How many would disagree with that? How many can hit recovery shot from the bottom of a pond?

I don't care what a bunch of stuffed shirt members of the board of the club think. Brad Klein often meets with such people and literally tells them they are stupid.

Why do we need to have courses like this televised so that everyman gets the idea that golf is no fun, because he knows very well he can't miss those ponds to save his life. The top players don't need ponds on courses to test their talents. Look at Chambers Bay causing the best amateurs in the world to average over 80 shots in a round. But yet, if I dump it in the ravine in front of #3, while Kalen misses right on the hill, the play of the hole still matters. I have a chance of recovering, and making a contest of the hole even though I am deeper in doo doo than he is.

That's fine that you use it as short hand for traditional golf but Augusta is traditional and it has forced carries. Plus what does Tom Doak have to do with this thread?

I've never been to Atlanta so I've obviously never played the course, it doesn't look like a great course but I've seen far worse and the course is doing it's job, it's a tightly bunched leaderboard. I have a funny feeling that if the first page of the leaderboard had the names, Woods, Mickelson, McIlroy, Els, etc that we would applaud the course for it being a great test of the game.

[Tim Martin]

Is there just too much water?

[JNC Lyon]

I agree with Garland and company: this course looks like an absolute abortion on TV.  I can't imagine how members play those water holes (and that many of them) on a day-to-day basis.  The course seems to be penal architecture at its most extreme.  For those who have played it, is there one hole out there where the golfer is encouraged to challenge a hazard rather than seek the center of a (narrow) fairway?

This course is a frustrating portrayal of Trent Jones courses too.  Two Trent Jones courses in Upstate New York, Crag Burn and Seven Oaks, are filled with character and options, whereas this one looks like one-dimensional blandness.

And yes, there is something bad about having this type of golf course being blasted through a television set.  Fortunately, there will be some more interesting venues (The Ocean Course, Merion, Pinehurst, Chambers Bay) coming up for majors in the following years.

The recovery shot is critical here folks, and the recovery shots at AAC seem to be boring or non-existant.

[JNC Lyon]

Is there just too much water?

It sure seems like it.  More importantly, the water is front-and-center on most holes, not easily avoidable, and of little strategic value.  ow does a double-digit handicapper play the 18th hole?  It must make a lot of money in golf ball sales for the pro shop.

[Garland Bayley]

...
That's fine that you use it as short hand for traditional golf but Augusta is traditional and it has forced carries. ...

Ding dong, you're wrong.

Augusta was traditional when it was created. Then the dark lord, RTJ, came in and put in forced carries.

[JNC Lyon]

...
That's fine that you use it as short hand for traditional golf but Augusta is traditional and it has forced carries. ...

Ding dong, you're wrong.

Augusta was traditional when it was created. Then the dark lord, RTJ, came in and put in forced carries.

Garland,

RTJ has his bad moments, but I think you'd like Seven Oaks at Colgate--only one major forced carry, and recent tree removal has opened up some great options on a bunch of holes, particularly the short par fours.  Interesting, the strongest holes at Crag Burn and Seven Oaks are the short fours!  That indicates he could do some good stuff, when he was trying.

[David Kelly]

I have a funny feeling that if the first page of the leaderboard had the names, Woods, Mickelson, McIlroy, Els, etc that we would applaud the course for it being a great test of the game.

Since many people have been criticizing the course since well before the first ball in the tournament was struck I would disagree.

[John Shimp]

Course looks like a monster to me. Rees creates ugly bunkers in my opinion. Too much water to be fun to play regularly.  Dislike the super long par 3s where the pros hit and hope. How about a small popped up green on a short par3  where you make a 2 or a 4?  Give me angc post Fazio in a landslide. So much more fun.