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John Kavanaugh

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Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« on: August 08, 2011, 06:55:15 PM »
I haven't played there but wow, it must be good.  This review makes me very, very happy and look forward to a fine weekend of viewing outstanding architecture.

http://www.golfweek.com/news/2011/aug/07/raters-notebook-atlanta-athletic-club/?RatersNotebook
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 06:59:34 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Mac Plumart

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 07:11:19 PM »
Hmmm...

I'm glad to see they got the conditioning right.  In the time leading up to this championship, the maintenance level was nowhere near a 10.  I played it the week before they made all players on the Highlands course play off of mats in the fairways and rough and at that time the greens were getting really, really firm and fast and the rough was getting NASTY thick, but the maintenance still had some issues..

Evidently, playing off of mats has really done the trick.

Good luck AAC.  I hope the championship is great!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Cliff Hamm

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 07:29:46 PM »
I must be mistaken, but I thought that Mickleson liked the course but thought the greens were a bit over the top and should be stimped at around 10-11.  Am I hallucinating or did anyone else read this in the last week?  If so why the difference of opinion?

JR Potts

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 07:33:01 PM »
Of course it is great. According to Flemma in his PGA Championship preview, it's great because it's a  Trent Jones Sr. course like Medinah.

Quote
Although the bones of the course are a Jones/Finger mix, the Highlands Course is reminiscent of many of Trent Jones Sr.’s other major championship venues like Hazeltine and Medinah: tree-lined, bunkers on either or both sides of the fairway, gargantuan length, ubiquitous ponds with steep slopes and shaved banks making the hazard far larger than the water-line, and large but somewhat flat greens that need to be reached with high lofted shots because they are surrounded by trouble. Typical of both Jones and Finger, it’s double target golf.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 07:37:09 PM »
Looks like the walk in the park boys are arm In arm on this one.

JR Potts

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 07:41:02 PM »
Yeah but I think the next time Trent Jones Sr. graces Medinah with his soul, living or dead, will be his first.

Again, God forbid we let the facts get in the way of an ignorant agenda.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 07:42:44 PM by Potts »

JNC Lyon

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 08:48:52 PM »
Hmmm...

I'm glad to see they got the conditioning right.  In the time leading up to this championship, the maintenance level was nowhere near a 10.  I played it the week before they made all players on the Highlands course play off of mats in the fairways and rough and at that time the greens were getting really, really firm and fast and the rough was getting NASTY thick, but the maintenance still had some issues..

Evidently, playing off of mats has really done the trick.

Good luck AAC.  I hope the championship is great!

Mac,

Are the par threes as one-dimensional as they appear in photos and on TV?  It seems like all of them have angled greens guarded closely by a pond on one side. 

It seems like Brad Klein used "variety of lengths" as justification for a high rating in many places here.  To me, that just doesn't cut it.  Even if those par threes are different lengths, the type of test is the same--hit the green and avoid the water.  Mac, you have played it, so you can weigh in with more substantive comments.  AAC seems like the type of course that people who call NGLA an "old man's course" would love.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Mac Plumart

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 09:02:35 PM »
Are the par threes as one-dimensional as they appear in photos and on TV?

I think they are pretty darn one dimensional.  Water carry par 3---rinse and repeat. 

I've probably played Highlands and Riverside 10 times in total.  Pretty evenly split between the two.

Highlands, to me, feels like two seperate courses.  The front nine starts out wide open and feels like a high quality parkland style course.  Angles of attack present themselves and some interesting risk/reward options.  But then on hole 6 water becomes the dominant theme for the rest of the front nine.  I'm not a huge fan of water hazards, so this gets tiring for me, especially if water is an over-used hazard...and I think it is in this case.

The back nine has a compeletly different vibe to it than the front nine and upon discovering the front and back were originally designed by two different people made compelete sense to me.  I find the back to be too narrow and cramped...kind of like they ran out of room back there.  It is one very demanding short to mid length par 4 after another...or so it always seems to me.  And, again, lots of water comes into play.

I think the course is a pretty significant test of golfing skill...to be quite frank.  The water, heavy bunkering, and tightness of the fairways on the back make for a very demanding test of accuracy.  Every time I've played it the greens are pretty firm and fast...I'd say they average about 12 on the stimp meter day in and day out.  But the last time I played it (like I mentioned maybe a month ago) the rough was THICK...combine that with very firm greens and wowzers...accuracy off the tee and on approach shots become even more crucial.

I am currently an 8.3 index and my best round at Highlands is high 80's.  It is not an easy day out there for a person of my skill level.  I prefer the Riverside course, given my game, personal taste, and architectural interest.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mike_Young

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 10:12:32 PM »
I played in a member/guest one day type of tournament the last day they would allow members to play the course before going to the small mats.  I think it was about two weeks ago or maybe three.  Anyway I thought the conditions were very good and you could tell they were prepped and ready to go to the next level once they got everyone off of the course.  They were in the middle of constructing all of the boxes and stands.  The greens were very good and were over a 12 I am sure.  It will be a good tournament and it will test the pros and you can't say falls short in those departments or in the maintenance department.  Bu it just doesn't seem to grab a lot of people.  It will be interesting to see if the greens will release or if they stop the shots.  They were actually pretty receptive when we played and that could make it easier.  BUT the biggest problem with this PGA Championship will be far and away the humidity and temperatures.  I think some will not finish their rounds and the caddies will have their hands full.  If one gets behind in the hydration department it will be hard to catch up.  I had dinner with one of the caddies and his player last night and he was from Oregon.  They could not believe the weather.  For people that are not used to the South during this season it will be an eyeopener.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

mike_beene

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 11:43:16 PM »
the only way to top playing the PGA in August in the South would be to hold the World Cup downhill in Aspen tomorrow.

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 12:09:03 AM »
Mike and Mac,

Thanks for the overviews and insights. It sure could be a sauna out there, especially if the heat wave continues. I hope there is some firmness and release to spice it up a bit.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 12:44:32 AM »
Are the par threes as one-dimensional as they appear in photos and on TV?

I think they are pretty darn one dimensional.  Water carry par 3---rinse and repeat. 

I've probably played Highlands and Riverside 10 times in total.  Pretty evenly split between the two.

Highlands, to me, feels like two seperate courses.  The front nine starts out wide open and feels like a high quality parkland style course.  Angles of attack present themselves and some interesting risk/reward options.  But then on hole 6 water becomes the dominant theme for the rest of the front nine.  I'm not a huge fan of water hazards, so this gets tiring for me, especially if water is an over-used hazard...and I think it is in this case.

The back nine has a compeletly different vibe to it than the front nine and upon discovering the front and back were originally designed by two different people made compelete sense to me.  I find the back to be too narrow and cramped...kind of like they ran out of room back there.  It is one very demanding short to mid length par 4 after another...or so it always seems to me.  And, again, lots of water comes into play.

I think the course is a pretty significant test of golfing skill...to be quite frank.  The water, heavy bunkering, and tightness of the fairways on the back make for a very demanding test of accuracy.  Every time I've played it the greens are pretty firm and fast...I'd say they average about 12 on the stimp meter day in and day out.  But the last time I played it (like I mentioned maybe a month ago) the rough was THICK...combine that with very firm greens and wowzers...accuracy off the tee and on approach shots become even more crucial.

I am currently an 8.3 index and my best round at Highlands is high 80's.  It is not an easy day out there for a person of my skill level.  I prefer the Riverside course, given my game, personal taste, and architectural interest.

Mac,

I always enjoy reading your description/opinion of golf courses.  Nothing here I would disagree with.

When I played AAC, I have to admit I had fairly low expectations based on what I read on GCA.com.  I actually enjoyed the golf course, though it clearly has some weak spots.

The first 5 holes are very good.  1 and 2 in particular are among my favorite starts I have ever played (and I think 2 is a phenomenal hole).  Not knowing too much about the golf course, when I got to the par 3 4th, I was impressed.  Nothing architecturally significant there, but it is just a good, hard golf hole with water.  Problem is, as you say, every par 3 is like that.  Individually each is fine, but as a group they are a real bore (a hard and intimidating bore, but a bore nonetheless).  And as for variety of yardages?  I don't remember the lengths, but I remember hitting: 4 iron, 5 iron, 5 iron, hybrid.  That's not huge variety in my mind.

One big criticism I had was the lack of fringe/rough around the water hazards.  And even worse was the severely sloping areas on 6 and 12 into the water.  Is this really necessary for everyday, member play? You want to make it tough for the pros, fine; but I don't think this feature makes sense for normal play.  Even on the par 3s with water there is no tall grass to stop good shots from running off the green.  I was playing on my own and was stuck behind a foursome so I hung out on the 8th green and watched 2 foursomes play number 4 to a back-left pin.  6 hit shots that landed on the green.  0 ended up on the green, with 3 running through the green into the water back-left.  These were good shots, but with no rough, the ball just goes in the water.

And I wouldn't mind seeing 18 played as a par 5 from all the way back.

Emile Bonfiglio

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 01:37:15 AM »
  I had dinner with one of the caddies and his player last night and he was from Oregon.  They could not believe the weather.  For people that are not used to the South during this season it will be an eyeopener.

Was that Scott Erdmann and his caddie Mike Mckennon? Scott is the asst pro at Oswego lake cc and mike is the owner of mckennon golf bags (like Mackenzie walker bags)
You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 06:27:39 AM »
Articles in the AJC this morning after the first practice rounds say the conditions are perfect.

As to the weather, they are actually going to get a little bit of a break.  Highs are only supposed to be around 88 on Sat. and Sun.; I'm not sure we've seen two consecutive days below 90 since April in Atlanta, and very few below 95.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Mike_Young

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 06:47:15 AM »
  I had dinner with one of the caddies and his player last night and he was from Oregon.  They could not believe the weather.  For people that are not used to the South during this season it will be an eyeopener.

Was that Scott Erdmann and his caddie Mike Mckennon? Scott is the asst pro at Oswego lake cc and mike is the owner of mckennon golf bags (like Mackenzie walker bags)
Mark,
It was Scott and Mike.  Scott was on Golf channel lasy night also if you are interested.  When Mike said they were coming this way we arranged for them to stay with a friend that lives across from the front gate at the AAC so they are having a big time.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Bill_McBride

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2011, 09:33:34 AM »

Was that Scott Erdmann and his caddie Mike Mckennon? Scott is the asst pro at Oswego lake cc and mike is the owner of mckennon golf bags (like Mackenzie walker bags)
Mark,
It was Scott and Mike.  Scott was on Golf channel lasy night also if you are interested.  When Mike said they were coming this way we arranged for them to stay with a friend that lives across from the front gate at the AAC so they are having a big time.

Is Scott Mike Erdmann's brother?   Mike is a GCA'er from Salem, Oregon. 

Lester George

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2011, 10:15:19 AM »
Any GCA get together planned for the PGA Championship?  Just thought I would check.  I'll be there with my senior designer Glenn Muckley to attend several meetings.  Drinks?

Lester

Dan_Callahan

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2011, 10:15:29 AM »
I will never understand the decision to hold major golf tournaments in the south in the middle of summer. The humidity is ridiculous. This is a big country, with lots and lots of great golf courses. Some are in places that have little to no humidity. I was just in Colorado and Wyoming and South Dakota, where it was bone dry. Even when the temperatures got up over 90, it was still bearable. And in the shade it was downright comfortable. Granted, there is far greater population density in the southeast, so ticket sales are easier. But at some point tickets have got to be secondary to playing conditions.

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2011, 10:18:31 AM »
I will never understand the decision to hold major golf tournaments in the south in the middle of summer. The humidity is ridiculous. This is a big country, with lots and lots of great golf courses. Some are in places that have little to no humidity. I was just in Colorado and Wyoming and South Dakota, where it was bone dry. Even when the temperatures got up over 90, it was still bearable. And in the shade it was downright comfortable. Granted, there is far greater population density in the southeast, so ticket sales are easier. But at some point tickets have got to be secondary to playing conditions.

I'm not in great shape by any means and I walked and carried 36 in Houston on Sunday afternoon.  There is no reason that they can't play down here.  With the turf being put on display this week I think you will only see more of it.

Jud_T

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2011, 10:21:48 AM »
I must be mistaken, but I thought that Mickleson liked the course but thought the greens were a bit over the top and should be stimped at around 10-11.  Am I hallucinating or did anyone else read this in the last week?  If so why the difference of opinion?

You're not mistaken.  It was in the Sunday NY Times Sports section.  Going to be interesting...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/sports/golf/for-pga-revamped-course-presents-new-challenges.html

« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 10:23:32 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Dan_Callahan

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2011, 10:46:05 AM »

I'm not in great shape by any means and I walked and carried 36 in Houston on Sunday afternoon.  There is no reason that they can't play down here.  With the turf being put on display this week I think you will only see more of it.

But do you live down there? If so, you're reasonably acclimated. Take an Irish guy like me, for whom a summer in New England is hotter and wetter than I can stand, stick me on a course in Georgia and ask me to compete for four days and I'd rather stick a fork in my eye. There's just no need to be that uncomfortable. The combination of sweaty grips, swamp-ass, and the pervasive BO of the all-natural folks who think pitstick is an affront to humanity and there's no place on Earth I'd be less eager to visit, let alone play in a major championship. There are plenty of other places in this country that are actually enjoyable to visit this time of year.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2011, 10:57:11 AM »
FYI, I live 10 minutes for AAC.  If you are in town, pop me an IM. 
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2011, 10:57:20 AM »

I'm not in great shape by any means and I walked and carried 36 in Houston on Sunday afternoon.  There is no reason that they can't play down here.  With the turf being put on display this week I think you will only see more of it.

But do you live down there? If so, you're reasonably acclimated. Take an Irish guy like me, for whom a summer in New England is hotter and wetter than I can stand, stick me on a course in Georgia and ask me to compete for four days and I'd rather stick a fork in my eye. There's just no need to be that uncomfortable. The combination of sweaty grips, swamp-ass, and the pervasive BO of the all-natural folks who think pitstick is an affront to humanity and there's no place on Earth I'd be less eager to visit, let alone play in a major championship. There are plenty of other places in this country that are actually enjoyable to visit this time of year.

I do live down here along with 6 million other acclimated people in my market to properly support a major championship.  I wouldn't want to play in the Open on one of your Irish-style cold, wet, windy days - but they've been doing it for years.  It's all a matter of perspective.

Lester George

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2011, 11:55:26 AM »
Mac,

Give me a call if you want to get together.

Lester

David Kelly

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Re: Atlanta Athletic Club is Great!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2011, 12:28:04 PM »
But at some point tickets have got to be secondary to playing conditions.
I think you would need a telescope to see that point.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.