Palouse Ridge GC - Harbottle (2008), Pullman, WA - Photo Tour - All 18 Posted

[Mark Saltzman]

Other photo tours from this trip:

Sanctuary, CO: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48714.0.html
Prairie Club (Dunes), NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48734.0.html
Prairie Club (Pines), NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49022.0.html
Awarii Dunes, NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48784.0.html
Wild Horse, NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48807.0.html
Golf Club at Bear Dance, CO: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48903.0.html
Coeur D'Alene Resort, ID: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48906.0.html
Wine Valley, WA: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48960.0.html
Ballyneal G&HC, CO: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49112.0.html

Upcoming:
The Idaho Club, ID
Sahalee CC, WA
Members Club at Aldarra, WA
Old Works, MT
SHGC (probably not as there are several already completed)



A few weeks ago I had the opportunity to play John Harbottle's Palouse Ridge GC at the Washington State University in Pullman, WA.  My expectations were moderate and they were easily matched and exceeded.  The course is very worth playing if you are in the area, though not necessarily worth travelling to see.  

General observations:

1) Lots of elevation changes make for a very difficult walk (it's doable, but it wouldn't be much fun).  If you don't mind hopping in a cart, the elevation changes are lots of fun.

2) Course plays firm and fast

3) Fairway and undulation is noticeable and interesting

4) Greens have very little internal contouring

5) Very good bunker placement - always  seem to be right where you want to hit it!

6) 16-17 are the only really weak holes in my opinion

7) Parallel par 5s 9 and 18 are almost the exact same hole (though for some reason I liked 18 much better than 9)







All yardages are from the 6,723 yard blue tees (72.9/134)

Hole 1: Par 4, 407 Yards

You know how sometimes you know you're playing a course you're going to like just from the first hole?  Thus was my feeling after playing number 1 at Palouse Ridge.  The tee shot plays blind over a hill without much in the name of visual clues to suggest a preferred line off the tee --- in the shop the pro told me to favor the left, but I couldn't remember if he said left or right... I thought it was right... I was wrong.





Tee shots that miss right will find rough and a severely sloping lie.  Whether by luck or design, there is an opening to the green through the trees from the right:




View from a perfect tee shot:




From left:





Looking back:






Hole 2: Par 4, 369 Yards

Playing parallel and above hole 1, the second features another blind tee shot.  One's primary concern is not pulling the tee shot as anything left will bound all the way down to the 1st fairway, some 30 ft below.  

A single white marker gives a line off the tee.  No other visual cues to guide the golfer.




From the top of the hill on a line right of the white post:




Tee shots that challenge the left side are rewarded with a preferred angle into the green:





The green is in a punchbowl, though it does not play like one as the sides are heavily roughed.  

As I recall (though I could be wrong), the green is devoid of internal contour.

[Garland Bayley]

My recollection was that the back of 2nd green was up a slight rise.

Do you think there is any way to get your approach close to a front pin on 2?

[Mark Saltzman]

My recollection was that the back of 2nd green was up a slight rise.

Do you think there is any way to get your approach close to a front pin on 2?

I didn't have a front pin the day I played and honestly don't know the contours well enough to answer your question.  From the pictures it looks the fringe short is flat so I perfectly placed shot should(?) stop.  Or, you can probably only get close to a front pin with a wedge in hand.  The greens were firm, but would one hop and stop.  I remember having PW to the back pin, so I probably would've had GW to a front pin. 

[Garland Bayley]

I had GW to a front pin. Hit what I thought was a perfect shot only to have it land and bounce high and deeper into the green. It seems no running shot could stay on the front given the slope coming in. So it seems if you want to birdie a front pin, you need to roll in a lengthy putt. Or, play Bubba Watson and roll your drive in and two putt.

[Mark Saltzman]

I had GW to a front pin. Hit what I thought was a perfect shot only to have it land and bounce high and deeper into the green. It seems no running shot could stay on the front given the slope coming in. So it seems if you want to birdie a front pin, you need to roll in a lengthy putt. Or, play Bubba Watson and roll your drive in and two putt.

who says every pin need by accessible?  maybe 20 ft is just the best that can be done.

[Garland Bayley]

who says every pin need by accessible?  maybe 20 ft is just the best that can be done.

I'm not say it needs to be accessible. I'm just wondering if anyone can do better than I did. When I hit the shot, I was expecting a great result. I don't get those expectations as often as most, so them being dashed is harder to take.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 3: Par 4, 440 Yards

Very good hole with a downhill tee shot over a diagonal hazard with an uphill approach to a green with a good kicker short.  My big question here is whether the bunker in the fairway is necessary?















Hole 4: Par 3, 158 Yards

One really scary short par 3.  Playing uphill, into a strong wind and to a back pin, I hit three-wood here.  Shots missing short or left are severely penalized.






A look at the area short/left of the green from below:




A really interestingly placed bunker.  There is a large kicker right of the green that can be used to get the ball on the front half of the green without having to challenge the fall-off left.  BUT, you can't get to a back pin position with it (that darned bunker gets in the way).  Playing to a back pin, one can be conservative and aim for the front half of the green where there is lots of room to miss but would leave a long putt, or they can take enough club to get to the back of the green but they must be precise with the line.

[Alex Miller]

Never played Palouse Ridge, but it looks like the bunker on 3 guards the preferred angle into the green. The further right you hit your drive, the better the angle, but also the closer you come to the bunker. Did it serve that purpose?

Love the photos, thanks for the tour.

[Kalen Braley]

I've played the course twice now.

Just a few observations...Mark is indeed correct on the greens and lack of interest.  As has been stated before, this is easily the biggest drawback to the course.  #18 is the only green that has any kind of internal contouring.

It also would be a tough walk..some of the transitions between holes are pretty long/brutal.  #2 to 3, 9 to 10, etc.

Thanks for doing the course review Mark as always!!

[Mark Saltzman]

Never played Palouse Ridge, but it looks like the bunker on 3 guards the preferred angle into the green. The further right you hit your drive, the better the angle, but also the closer you come to the bunker. Did it serve that purpose?

Love the photos, thanks for the tour.

Alex,

Yes and no.  You want to be coming into the green from centre or left, but the reality is that it is a fairly small fairway.  Anywhere in the fairway and you have a reasonable angle into the green.  Given the elevated tee and diagonal hazard on the left and the narrowness of the fairway, I think the bunker is more penal than strategic. 

[Garland Bayley]

Never played Palouse Ridge, but it looks like the bunker on 3 guards the preferred angle into the green. The further right you hit your drive, the better the angle, but also the closer you come to the bunker. Did it serve that purpose?

Love the photos, thanks for the tour.

Alex,

Yes and no.  You want to be coming into the green from centre or left, but the reality is that it is a fairly small fairway.  Anywhere in the fairway and you have a reasonable angle into the green.  Given the elevated tee and diagonal hazard on the left and the narrowness of the fairway, I think the bunker is more penal than strategic. 

For me, I aimed at the bunker, hit a great drive and came up well short. I think it is an aiming bunker for the average guy. Long hitters will be aiming left of it and cutting more of the angle for a shorter approach. As an aiming bunker it is unneeded fluff.

Kalen mentions the long walk to 3. Not only is it long, it is downhill at sufficient angle to tire the osteoarthritic knees.
Then you get to 4, and the walk down to the white tees is as bad as a black diamond.
Make no mistake. This is a cartballers course.

[Kalen Braley]

I really like the 3rd hole and I'm not opposed to the bunker on the right hand side of the fairway.

I think it does a good job of not letting one completely bail out to the right...because remember, there is a hazard down the left hand side that can come into play, which is completely blind from the tee.  I found it the 1st time I played the course.

[Sean Leary]

Wonder if there was any consideration given to using fescue on this course? Seems like it might be perfect for it, no?

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 5: Par 5, 552 Yards

Not too many pictures as a group let me play through.

Not much to add that the pictures don't show.  Tee shot has a hazard down the left and severe slope on the right side of the fairway that will kick balls toward the centre of the fairway.  Tee shots down the left leave a shorter though not much easier second shot.




I believe this bunker is not original.  Layup simply wants to avoid the bunker (which is not as simple as it looks as it is right on the line one would want to hit the ball on).  I think all approach angles would have to deal with bunkers fronting the green unless you are well left after your second.




Green from next tee





Hole 6: Par 3, 217 Yards

Long, downhill, downwind and deceiving.  I hit a few shots off this tee, trying to use the kicker to the right of the green to run the ball on.  What I didn't realize was how severe the slope is.  Balls do not kick left and forward, they just kick straight left!

[George Freeman]

Thanks for another great photo tour Mark!

I started paying close attention to cart path placement this year after playing a few courses with abysmal examples of where not to put a cart path.  This picture stuck out like sore thumb on where not to put a cart path: lining the entire right hand side of the hole (__% of golfers hit a slice), with OB/unplayable directly beyond the cart path.  I'll never understand it.

Ok, sorry for the rant.  Please continue!

[Matthew Sander]

George,

You wouldn't be referring to Makray as one of those courses with questionably placed paths, would you? No need to answer

[George Freeman]

George,

You wouldn't be referring to Makray as one of those courses with questionably placed paths, would you? No need to answer

[Mark Saltzman]

I started paying close attention to cart path placement this year after playing a few courses with abysmal examples of where not to put a cart path.  This picture stuck out like sore thumb on where not to put a cart path: lining the entire right hand side of the hole (__% of golfers hit a slice), with OB/unplayable directly beyond the cart path.  I'll never understand it.

Ok, sorry for the rant.  Please continue!

George,

I only recently started taking pictures when I golf, but when I do take pictures, I hate when they have ugly, noticeable cart paths in them.  The amazing thing is how much they are front and centre in pictures - they are wide, they are paved and they are right next to the fairway/green (if they aren't crossing right across the middle of the fairway).  I rarely think about placement in the way you described (ie worsening a poor shot), but I am amazed so many courses feature them so prominently with little or no effort to 'hide' them. 

In fact, recently at an old, private golf course, the pro was very excited to tell me that they had recently put in paved cart paths all the way around the golf course and even put curbs in some places.  He seemed disappointed when I asked if I could walk.

[Garland Bayley]

I think #6 would have been a better hole if the tee had been down near #5 green. The kick pad would have worked better from there.

Instead they made a horrible walk for golfers to get a bit of a "drop shot" hole for the cartballers. I have played 4 Harbottles, and this one is the worst IMO.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 7: Par 4, 426 Yards

A rather forgiving cape hole.  Nothing but trouble awaits the player who cuts off a little too much, but there is lots of room left.  The fairway even has a significant left to right cant that allows bailed-out shots to kick toward the centre.






The approach is similar from all angles with little benefit garnered for challenging the hazards off the tee.

[Mark Saltzman]

I think #6 would have been a better hole if the tee had been down near #5 green. The kick pad would have worked better from there.

Instead they made a horrible walk for golfers to get a bit of a "drop shot" hole for the cartballers. I have played 4 Harbottles, and this one is the worst IMO.

Agreed.  Though, at 250ish yards from the tips it would have been a real brute up the hill.

Do you think the teeing grounds were natural or built up?  If natural, where would you put the tee? 

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 8: Par 4, 384 Yards

One of my favorite holes at PR.  The strategy is here is as it should be.  The fairway slopes left to right and the preferred appraoch is from the left.  Challenge the fairway bunker for the preferred angle in or bail out right (where there is lots of room) and face a difficult approach that must carry the bunkers fronting the green.






The approach is uphill to a green with a kicker left of the green that will allow a player that is out of position off the tee to reach the green without challenging the bunkers.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 9: Par 5, 483 Yards

A simple par 5 with one really well-placed bunker.  The tee shot is over a diagonal hazard on the left to a fairway that slopes significantly toward the hazard.  Tee shots that challenge the hazard are rewarded with a shorter approach / easier lay up, though those wanting to go for it in 2 will find an easier 2nd from the right.




There is a single very well placed bunker approximately 100 yards from the green.  Approaches are best played from the right, though one must choose whether to challenge the bunker (carry it) or lay back of it. 




The approach from the left is more uphill, from a more difficult angle and from the rough...




While the approach from the right has a much better look at the green...




Interestingly, the green is very shallow and just over the bunker is a not insignificant downslope that will kick balls just carrying the bunker to the back of the green.  I didn't really like that.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 10: Par 5, 566 Yards

I loved this par 5.  A very dramatic tee shot with trouble all the way down the right and lots of room left.




Not such a ho-hum layup.  There is a steep slope to the right that one must avoid.  There is another really well placed fairway bunker.  Fairway slopes left to right and you can't miss right.  Bunker is right where you want to hit it.  Pick your poison, lay-up to it or carry it or try to find the narrow portion of fairway right of it.  Love the options.




The aforementioned slope for shots missed right:




Undulations short of the green serve to feed the ball toward the green, while the pin high undulations generally feed the ball away from the green.







Hole 11: Par 3, 156 Yards


Even at only 150 yards this is a very intimidating and difficult par 3.  The hole is straight uphill and just long enough that most players will be hitting at least a mid-iron into the green.






Severe contouring left of the green will allow the player that does not want to challenge the bunkers an opportunity to find a piece of the green.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 12: Par 4, 426 Yards

Another really intimidating tee shot where there is reward for challenging the trouble.  Tee shots missed right can tumble all the way down to the 14th fairway leaving an all but impossible approach, though approaches from the right are preferred.




Many approaches will be semi-blind.  Tee shots up the right leave an approach that will be open in front allowing the ball to be run onto the green.  Tee shots up the left may have to deal with a fronting bunker and will require an aerial approach.




Longer tee shots will have a better look at the green.




From back right (another flat green)




Hole 13: Par 3, 217 Yards

One of the more penal holes on the golf course.  This par 3 is long and into the wind with little bailout.  Bunkers short-right and long-left will catch most misses from the right-handed golfer.  Short-left and long-right are the places to miss.






From the left.  Oddly, this is one of the most severely undulating greens at PR. Not quite sure why Harbottle would choose this green to be so undulated given the difficulty of the hole.  Perhaps a recognition that few will be hitting the green in regulation and making for a more difficult up and down?




From behind shows a couple of chipping areas left and right of the green.  Not bad spots to miss.