Golf Mag Top 100 US & World - 2011

[Jim Colton]

http://www.golf.com/golf/courses_travel/article/0,28136,2086035,00.html

[PCCraig]

Thanks for posting. Interesting stuff.

LACC and #2 make big moves up after restorations. Shoreacres moves up 7 spots to #36 in the U.S.

[Ben Sims]

Is this the best Top 100 US list?

[Kalen Braley]

New to the Top 100 US List:

43 - Old Mac
70 - Gozzer Ranch
76 - The Alotian
82 - Caves Valley
97 - California Club

[Anthony Gray]

  What is the point system criteria?

  Anthony

[Jim Colton]

Aside from the new additions and subtractions, here were the biggest movers in terms of points since last time

Anthony: http://www.golf.com/golf/courses_travel/article/0,28136,2086053,00.html

MOVING UP
1. Oitavos Dunes (~+4.05) I don't have its exact 2009 score, if somebody can provide it I'll update. It was #88 World last time.
2. LACC North (+3.07)
3. Congressional Blue (+2.54)
4. Augusta National (+2.24)
5. Kingsbarns (+2.18)
6. Shoreacres (+2.09)
7. Royal St David's (+1.94)
8. Fishers Island (+1.85)
9. North Berwick (+1.83)
10T. Valley Club of Montecito (+1.34)
10T. Tokyo (+1.34)

MOVING DOWN
1. Winged Foot (East) (-4.71)
2. Hazeltine National (-3.83)
3. World Woods (Pine Barrens) (-3.19)
4. Torrey Pines (South) (-3.07)
5. Friar's Head (-3.04)
6. Loch Lomond (-3.02)
7. Royal Adelaide (-2.83)
8. Valderrama (-2.72)
9T. Sebonack (-2.70)
9T. Chambers Bay (-2.70)

[Kalen Braley]

So I also collected data points on the number of new courses that opened 1995 or later to see if the "New Golden Age" mantra is plausible.  Based on the data, nearly 25% of the courses in the Best in the US list were opened in that time frame, so that seems like a pretty good case could be made...at least in my opinion.

Here is the list, with the following exceptions.  Pasatiempo and Torrey were kept off because the routing remained intact and the courses changes were more or less similar to what was there prior.  MPCC Shore was included because based on pre-aerial footage, what was there before pretty much bears little to no resemblance to what is there now.

Course   Rank 1   Sand Hills   8 2   Pac Dunes   11 3   Friars Head   23 4   Whistling Straits   26 5   Bandon Dunes   32 6   Old Sandwich   38 7   Old MacDonald   43 8   Ballyneal   46 9   Nanea   48 10   Chambers Bay   49 11   Trump Bedminster   53 12   Bandon Trails   54 13   Sebonack   63 14   Calusa Pines   64 15   Gozzer Ranch   70 16   MPCC Shore   73 17   Trump International   75 18   The Alotian      76 19   Boston Golf Club   78 20   Whipering Pines   80 21   Sutton Bay   85 22   Kinloch   91

[Jim Nugent]

Doak now has five on the GM world top 100.  Gotta believe the upcoming FL and DR courses will be outstanding as well.  Have enough GM raters made it to Rock Creek to give it a ranking?  

[David_Tepper]

"What is the point system criteria"

Anthony G. -

There is a brief description of the point system on the magazine's website.

Here is a link: http://www.golf.com/golf/courses_travel/article/0,28136,2086053,00.html  

DT

[Mike Nuzzo]

Kalen
That is the U.S. list... not the ROW.
Cheers

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen
That is the U.S. list... not the ROW.
Cheers

Correct,

I should have better explained the tie in to the other thread from a week ago that asserted the US has had a mini Golden Age in the last 15 years or so.  So I intentionally only wanted to deal with data based on US courses only.

[Ron Csigo]

Courses on the 2009 World List that are gone from the 2011 World List:

Naruo
Scioto
Spyglass Hill
Royal Melbourne (East)

[Anthony Gray]

  I just think tradition plays too big of a role in the rankings.

  Anthony

[Joel_Stewart]

Courses on the 2009 World List that are gone from the 2011 World List:

Spyglass Hill

About time!   Personally I think Fazio ruined the course.  Happily if they someday want to bring in another architect I think it could be fixed, especially the 16th hole.

[Kalen Braley]

As it pertains to the World List....I'm not trying to kick the nest, but is there a US bias?  Half of the courses on the top 100 list are in the US, (50) and over half of the top 50 courses are in the US. (56%)

Rank   # of courses
1 - 10   7
11 - 20   5
21 - 30   7
31 - 40   5
41 - 50   4
51 - 60   4
61 - 70   8
71 - 80   6
81 - 90   3
91 - 100   1
Total       50
Top 50   28

[Ron Csigo]

Courses on the 2009 World List that are gone from the 2011 World List:

Spyglass Hill

About time!   Personally I think Fazio ruined the course.  Happily if they someday want to bring in another architect I think it could be fixed, especially the 16th hole.

Surprised to see Royal Melbourne (East) drop off.  Anyone else surprised by that considering some of the other courses ranked below it in 2009 are still on the 2011 list?

[Tom_Doak]

Ron:

Royal Melbourne East has suffered some as they tried to solve boundary issues with several holes.


Kalen:

I disagree that there is a U.S. bias.  Perhaps there are not enough UK courses on the list, but in the rest of the world, I think many panelists [especially the Americans] bend over backwards to try and include more overseas courses, and in fact vote HIGHER on a course than they really believe just to see more Japanese and European courses make the list.  By contrast, many of the overseas panelists vote for even more American courses.

[Ron Csigo]

Ron:

Royal Melbourne East has suffered some as they tried to solve boundary issues with several holes.

Appreciate that info, Tom.  I was unaware of the boundary issues.  Thanks.

[Kalen Braley]

Ron:

Royal Melbourne East has suffered some as they tried to solve boundary issues with several holes.


Kalen:

I disagree that there is a U.S. bias.  Perhaps there are not enough UK courses on the list, but in the rest of the world, I think many panelists [especially the Americans] bend over backwards to try and include more overseas courses, and in fact vote HIGHER on a course than they really believe just to see more Japanese and European courses make the list.  By contrast, many of the overseas panelists vote for even more American courses.

Tom,

Thanks for the input, I really was just trying to pose the question with out implying there actually was.

I'm guessing there are only a few out there like you who have seen many of these courses overseas.  Putting together a world list would seem to be a daunting task. 

P.S.  On a personal note, are you surprised (or not) with the lack of St. Andrews Beach not being included?  The review on GCA.com seemed to unveil some really terrific holes.

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:

I'm not surprised a bit about St. Andrews Beach failing to be ranked.  Going bankrupt right at the start is never good for p.r.  And though the course has its fans here, even its fans seem to find one or two holes to be unfair.  I am unconvinced that it needs changing, I'm just happy to see it open and doing a fair bit of business.

I do think it's in my personal top ten courses, but probably not my top five, and I've only got five ranked.  Rock Creek is the one that should be in there but isn't yet.

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,

Just get them to call 13 a par five and most of the moaning would go away.
The one time I saw Geoff Ogilvy play it he hit a drive and a seven - but rather have it criticised for being too easy!

[Tim Leahy]

  I just think tradition plays too big of a role in the rankings.

  Anthony

What about Diamonte? No tradition there, in fact I am surprised that enough people have even played this course to get it ranked.

[Greg Tallman]

  I just think tradition plays too big of a role in the rankings.

  Anthony

What about Diamonte? No tradition there, in fact I am surprised that enough people have even played this course to get it ranked.

Diamante hosted no fewer than 25 panelists from January through April many of which made it over to our place during their trip.

[Mac Plumart]

Caves Valley...anyone have any scoop on it?

[Greg Tallman]

"What is the point system criteria"

Anthony G. -

There is a brief description of the point system on the magazine's website.

Here is a link: http://www.golf.com/golf/courses_travel/article/0,28136,2086053,00.html  

DT

There is no point system per se as Anthony was suggesting. They do not rate diffculty, aesthetics... etc numerically but are free to consider whatever they like in determining where the course fits in their mind:
1-3 (100 points)
4-10 (85)
11-25 (70)
26-50 (60)
51-75 (50)
76-100 (40)
101-150 (30)
151-200 (20)
210-250 (10)
251+ (0)
Remove from ballot (-10)


At least that was the system in 2009