Ballyneal G&HC, Holyoke, CO (Doak) - A Photo Tour - Hole 17 Posted

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 12: Par 4, 375 Yards

One of my favorite holes on the property. A good tee shot (not necessarily a driver) will hug the left side of the fairway for a better angle and a better view...if you leak to the right you’ll be playing the second from a deep hollow. This is a WILD green and it’s important to know where the flag is...the left-hand hole locations are in a hollow and it should be easy to miss to that side, but keeping the ball on the right-hand plateau takes a very good shot.




When 12 plays downwind, I suspect there will be some that will give the green a go.  If one cannot carry the left-side bunker complex, then they must be brave to skirt it.  This fairway is very, very wide.  The place to be is down the left, but there is lots of room to miss right and still find the fairway.  But, an approach from the left is very, very difficult and will be uphill, blind, and protected by some nasty bunkers short and right of the green.

Tee




From start of fairway




From centre of fairway - the approach from here, even with wedge in hand, is very daunting.  Playing downwind, trying to get the ball to carry the bunkers and stay on the green is no easy task.





From short-left of the green - about where a tee shot that carries the left fairway bunkers will end up.





From the tips on the 13th.  This picture shows the nastiness that is the bunkering protecting the right side of the 12th green.  It also shows the severity of the undulations on the 12th green, effectively separating it into three distinct sections.  Also note the bunkers long of the green.  At most courses bunkers over the green get very little play.  I suspect that is not the case at Ballyneal as balls there seem to have a tendency to bound and run and bounce and end up over the green.




A small bowl in the green in the back-right portion.




From the 13th tee (non-tips / human tees):

[Steve Kline]

This is a fantastic hole. First time I played it I hit driver and went into the bunkers down the right of fairway. I ave never hit driver again. Now I hit three wood to make it easier to draw the ball and keep it near the bunkers on the left. There is enough fairway on the left that you can hit reliably but the bunkers are very scary and definite penalty if you go in them. You can always bail out right an be "safe" but the second shot is no good as you can see from Mark's picture that the green has some severe undulations that set up well when coming from the right. As a risk/reward tee shot I think this works much better than #10. The green is exteremely fun to hit to whether it is your second, third or fourth shot because there are a number of ways to use the contour and wind to aid your shot.

Just to the right of Mark's last picture short and left of the green when viewing from the fairway is a flat area just big enough to use as a tee for 13. Colton had not played from there when I suggested it. Reaaly cool angle that changes how the centerline bunkers come into play.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 13: Par 4, 510 / 400 Yards

There are acres of fairway here, but you’d like to drive it down the left if possible, because half the green is hidden behind a front right-hand bunker and it’s very difficult to get to that side from the right of the fairway...in fact you probably should just play to the left of the green from over there




There is lots and lots of width here, but it is certainly not a 'grip it and rip it' hole.  Four staggered centreline bunkers and a vast complex of humps, bumps and swales in the fairway make this a very interesting tee shot.  Add to that several bunkers skirting the edges of the fairway and a massive fairway will feel very narrow.  Even if grip it and rip it may not work, 'hit and hope' might!


From right of teeing ground one can see the movement in the 13th fairway:




From the 13th tee only two centreline bunkers are clearly visible.  The third bunker is beyond the right fairway bunker.  The fourth bunker is actually green facing - it is the little bit of tall grass beyond the left bunker.  I'm not sure that there is an easiest route, other than to layup short of all the centreline hazards.  Each line taken off the tee will have its own unique risks and rewards and add to that the uncertainty resulting from the fairway movement and this hole will play differently every single time you play it.





This picture shows the approach from a tee shot that splits the left and right centreline bunkers.  I suppose this may be the preferred angle of approach into the green, though this is probably pin dependent. I think a right pin will want to be on the left and a left pin an approach from the right - I didn't see these pins and am not sure.





Kyle's picture shows that tee shots down the left may find a bit of a speed-slot, but they also will face a completely blind approach from the bottom of a large swale.





Kyle's picture from behind the green shows a piece of green that is largely hidden from the fairway and is very well protected by two large humps.  Approaches from the right side of the fairway will have almost no chance of getting near this pin, but approaches from the blind left side will have a reasonable chance.




If one looks carefully, the hidden centreline bunker is visible in the middle of this picture.

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

13 is certainly on the epic list for me.  Absolutely love everything about this hole....wouldn't change a thing!!

[John Kirk]

This is a fantastic hole. First time I played it I hit driver and went into the bunkers down the right of fairway. I ave never hit driver again. Now I hit three wood to make it easier to draw the ball and keep it near the bunkers on the left. There is enough fairway on the left that you can hit reliably but the bunkers are very scary and definite penalty if you go in them. You can always bail out right an be "safe" but the second shot is no good as you can see from Mark's picture that the green has some severe undulations that set up well when coming from the right. As a risk/reward tee shot I think this works much better than #10. The green is exteremely fun to hit to whether it is your second, third or fourth shot because there are a number of ways to use the contour and wind to aid your shot.

Just to the right of Mark's last picture short and left of the green when viewing from the fairway is a flat area just big enough to use as a tee for 13. Colton had not played from there when I suggested it. Reaaly cool angle that changes how the centerline bunkers come into play.

Bless you if you can draw the 3-wood, 'cause that's the play.  I usually punch little driver teed down low to keep it straight.  About 100-110 yards to the center is perfect for me here.

 

Isn't this the best?  Most people like #7, but #12 has more variance.  All the different pins present such excellent challenges.  A deluxe second shot hole.

[Adam Clayman]

Kalen, You shoulda seen the look, and, heard the inflection in his voice, as Ben Crenshaw first laid his eyes on 13. His grin got as wide as Texas and he said in that Texas drawl "wow". Coore then hit it so far right, he was in the native. Played his second beautifully to the far left side of the corridor, maybe 100y out, then almost holed out for 3. As Doak did this body english jig, by the hole, as the ball just missed.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, You shoulda seen the look, and, heard the inflection in his voice, as Ben Crenshaw first laid his eyes on 13. His grin got as wide as Texas and he said in that Texas drawl "wow". Coore then hit it so far right, he was in the native. Played his second beautifully to the far left side of the corridor, maybe 100y out, then almost holed out for 3. As Doak did this body english jig, by the hole, as the ball just missed.

Adam,

Sounds like that was a great experience.  My reaction was similar when I first saw the entire hole walking up to the tee.

We had a back right pin that day and I thought that was a little mean with that big ridge in the middle of the green...but for sure...what a hole indeed!!!

P.S.  My favorite feature on this hole is the back of that centerline bunker where there is another waiting for the unsuspecting gambler who wants to challenge that bunker.  Awesome stuff!!

[Kalen Braley]

More of 13:

Behind that bunker looking back to the tee...




In front of that bunker looking at the approach to the green:

[John Kirk]

Thoughts on #13:

Unique golf hole.  Since I tend to pull tee shots, the play for me is to aim between the short left-center bunker and the left edge of the big long bunker.  I tend to pull it a bit, hopefully by the little bunker and down into the swale.  Every now and then, I will bust one and it wiill get through the swale.

From the back tees, given correct winds, you can get home in two, and it is a fun shot, trying to fade a fairway wood into a green which favors such a shot.  However, it is generally a less interesting hole from 510 yards for a player of my caliber (middle age 3ish), as the bunkering and width come into play from the 430 yard tee box.

About 50% of the time I am left with a 145-165 yard shot from an uphill lie in the swale.  This to a green with a big right bunker and a green with a huge ridge separating the front from the right of the green.   Plays to either side of the green are heroic in nature; the uphill lie wants the ball to go left.  Long is a good play for most pins, but the front pin, the birdie pin, demands a short play.  The front pin is fun to play, because you know you've got a good shot at birdie from the fairway.

The hardest pin location to birdie must be the short right pin, down in the trench behind the bunker, don't you think?   Another hard pin here is the plus-a-couple pin in the middle, on top of the green.  Has anybody ever birdied that?  I've made a bunch of fours with that pin, but you can't sleep a minute.

Ready to break out the bunny for #14.

[Chris Johnston]

Beautiful hole!  Stunning!

[Michael George]

Mark:

Thanks for the posts and pictures.  It reminds me of why I love golf course architecture and am active on the site. 

[Steve Kline]

This is probably the best hole on the back nine although I like #17 a lot too.

Played it once from the back, back tee with a 15-20 mph wind in my face. I smoked it off the tee and barely got it to the fairway. Had no chance of getting home in two but it was fun. Depending on where you tee off from the centerline bunkers take on many different characteristics. It seems I always end up with an uphill lie and blind shot for my second. The uphill is very difficult when the wind is blowing in your face on this hole. And, the pin placements totally change the nature of the hole and what you need to do off the tee.

[Adam Clayman]

While the left side of 13 fwy is a desire,, the lack of flat lies is the price one pays for being aggressive. When the pin is on the right, I actually want a side hill down hill lie. That way, I can swing hard and look up fast and hit a beautiful slice that can over the ridge in the green. 

For everyday typical standard play, the front left is more sloped than looks and will yield an acceptable result no matter where the pin is.

[Mark Saltzman]

Wow, Wow, Wow... I really missed out on the greatness of 13.

I wrote in another thread that sometimes when you have a caddie, you end up missing a lot of the interesting features of a hole... and boy do I feel like an idiot for missing them here.  Every round my caddie said just aim it between the bunkers, and every round I hit it there.  I had a middle/left pin everyday, too.  Truth is, I didn't know about that swale left.  I didn't know about the very interesting mounding at the right portion of the green.  I had to use Kyle and Matt's photo tours as my crib sheets so that I could give a proper description of the 13th.  .... Guess I'll have to go back and see what I missed!

[Steve Kline]

The mound on the right of the green is fantastic - great protection for the back right part of the green. Last time I was there we had a back right pin with the wind blowing 15-20 mph into us but mostly right to left. I drover down into the bowl on the left. Had one of those real uphill lies and a totally blind shot. I aimed way out into the yucca on the right and let the wind and uphill lie swing it back to the left. Scary, but very fun shot.

[Brandon Urban]

Probably my favorite hole on the back 9 and somedays it's my favorite overall.
One of the coolest thing IMO about the hole is how far right you can actually aim on the approach shot. Standing in the fairway with an iron in hand, the target looks pretty narrow. The first day the pin was on the left side so that's where I aimed (not executed, but aimed). The second day pin was back middle and I hit what I thought was a WAY right approach only to find it on the putting surface.
By the way, that hidden centerline bunker is not alot of fun!

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 14: Par 4, 362 Yards

This is the simplest looking hole on the course, but it’s an awkward length and a very small green, and you can find a lot of trouble if you get aggressive with it. I’ve seen several players drive it within 50 yards of the flag but leave their second shots in the hollow to the right and make 5, or worse




The tee shot is places over the edge of a massive dune that hides a lot of room on the right side of the fairway.  It is very hard to get comfortable on the tee with a perfectly placed centreline bunker sitting at just the right yardage to impact most golfers.  Only the longest of players can carry the bunker, but with the firm fairways, almost everyone could run a tee shot into it. I suspect that many choosing to layup, end up laying up way short of the bunker and leave a very long approach into a less than receptive green.

Though not an option for most, the very longest of drivers could aim over the blowout on the left and attempt to drive the green.  Wind direction, as usual, will dictate how one chooses to play the 14th.




Even though this hole is short on the scorecard, many golfers will have ~160 yards into the green after successfully laying up in the fairway.  The approach is not easy even though this is a bunkerless green.  The green is one of the smallest on the golf course with slopes that repel balls off all parts of the green.  From the fairway it is obvious that missing left is bad and will kick a ball down to the bottom of a valley.  What is not obvious is that shots that miss long-right will suffer a similar fate.  With the green sloping hard left-ro-right and back-to-front it may be that shots missed right, even if in a deep depression, are an easier up and down than if missed left.






Absolutely amazing picture showing the contouring in the 14th fairway and around the 14th green.

[Ben Sims]

This may sound crazy, but this is my favorite hole on the back nine.  It reminds me of Rudy Ruettiger.  It's small and underrated, but it doesn't quit.  I've played it from next to the 13th green and all the way up to 300yds (driveable).  It's been good from all distances and winds.  The drive--like #12--is more exacting if you want to go long, but the layup is also deceivingly precise.  That isn't to say that there isn't room to miss.

The approach is also very fun. It is one of the more subtle kickers out there, but left of the green is a pretty solid "miss".  Right is not.  I love the underdog.     

[Steve Lang]

  is it the photos or is the grass growing well at BN?  i don't remember it being that way in sep 09..

[Steve Kline]

I have yet to figure out how to play this hole. I've tried everything off the tee. I have never sniffed a birdie and make lots of bogies. I rarely hit the green. I love holes that appear so simple on the card yet are hard to figure out in actual playing. The centerline bunker is in the absolute perfect spot. 12-14 is a great stretch of holes and the best stretch on the back nine.

[Doug Sobieski]

I have yet to figure out how to play this hole. I've tried everything off the tee. I have never sniffed a birdie and make lots of bogies. I rarely hit the green. I love holes that appear so simple on the card yet are hard to figure out in actual playing. The centerline bunker is in the absolute perfect spot. 12-14 is a great stretch of holes and the best stretch on the back nine.

Steve:

It took me a couple years to figure out how best to play this hole. I found that although it's relatively easy to drive it past the centerline bunker, the resulting pitch is too awkward, i.e. it's a less than full shot and you never know what type of lie you'll have. I've found that hitting it directly at that bunker, there is a fairly good size flat area that leaves a 9I/PW in there with a perfect view. I have made a lot of birdies on 14 with that strategy, and rarely miss that green.

[Kalen Braley]

You guys need to tell Andy T how to play this hole. In our one playing, he aimed at and proceeded to hit it into that teeny principles nose centerline bunker.  Safe to say, he wasn't a big fan of that bunker!!   

[Ben Sims]

I have yet to figure out how to play this hole. I've tried everything off the tee. I have never sniffed a birdie and make lots of bogies. I rarely hit the green. I love holes that appear so simple on the card yet are hard to figure out in actual playing. The centerline bunker is in the absolute perfect spot. 12-14 is a great stretch of holes and the best stretch on the back nine.

Steve:

It took me a couple years to figure out how best to play this hole. I found that although it's relatively easy to drive it past the centerline bunker, the resulting pitch is too awkward, i.e. it's a less than full shot and you never know what type of lie you'll have. I've found that hitting it directly at that bunker, there is a fairly good size flat area that leaves a 9I/PW in there with a perfect view. I have made a lot of birdies on 14 with that strategy, and rarely miss that green.

Doug,

You nailed it.  I always try to get a yardage to the centerline bunker, and leave it even with the bunker to the right of it.  Every time I've gone left of the bunker, disaster awaits. Tom and Co. have a few holes at BN where the longer portion of the hole (i.e. the outside of the dogleg) may be your best chance to score.  I like the concept.

[Brandon Urban]

I second Steve's thoughts... no matter how I attacked this hole I was always left with an approach that didn't feel comfortable. The green almost seems to play smaller than it actually is.
I can tell you how NOT to play the hole. Don't yank a 3 wood left into the dunes and proceed to play up over the top of the dunes and through the gnarly bunker on the left. All you end up with is sand filled shoes and some guy taking video of you trying to hit about 5 shots out of said bunker.
Luckily I have not yet seen this alleged video posted on youtube!

[Jim Colton]

I'm out at Ballyneal this weekend with 11 other guys, 7 of whom haven't been out here before. The discussion of the toughest hole came up and many thought 14 was right up there with 6 and 17. The scores didn't support that hypothesis, but that didn't factor in the large number of Ball in Pockets. We did have a hole-out eagle there yesterday.