[Patrick_Mucci]

Recently I noticed a neat feature on a downhill par 4 hole that can help or hurt the golfer, depending upon his perception and use of the feature.

As the fairway descends toward the green, the green rises up to meet it, such that the configuration looks like a wide open "V"
The back of the green is higher than the front of the green, but, not by much.
In addition, the fairway stops descending about 5 yards short of the green and then starts ascending until it becomes the green and then continues its slight ascent until you get to the back of the green.

Thus the golfer can play well short of the green, allowing his ball to run 10, 20, 40 or 50 yards up onto the green, but, if the golf attempts an aerial approach, and his ball lands just short of the green, it stays there.

This makes front hole locations difficult as most golfers don't try to hit past the hole, but rather, attempt to squeeze the approach in, between the front of the green and the hole.

It's a great feature for almost any downhill hole.

How prevalent is it ?

How many courses, on downhill holes, have that little swale short of the green ?

[Link Walsh]

I would think having that little swale before the green would help with water draininage off the green, wouldn't it?  Of course then you would have to worry about that area right before the green getting too soggy. 

[Chris Cupit]

The second hole at Linville Golf Club is an excellent example of this type of feature.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Link,

The hole, and that area in particular, are elevated, so drainage isn't an issue.

I've seen golfers who could never reach the green with an aerial shot, due to a missed drive, hit a low roller onto that green.

That's what local knowledge canl do for you.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

14 at Interlachen is pretty close to what you describe Pat. It's a long par-4 with a semi-blind tee shot slightly uphill, to a downhill approach with about 5 yards of uphill just short of the green. The player either has to have it running from a ways back or fly it all the way to get over/past the small incline in front of the green. I'll try and post photos tomorrow,

[Patrick_Mucci]

I wonder if that feature was BOTH a concession to drainage and an insidious architectural feature.

It sure is effective when the golfer knows how to use it and ego busting when they don't.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

From the tee.


Just at the crest of the hill. 210 yards left.


Approach from 190 yards out just in the right rough


The incline on the approach from 30 yards out to the back to front sloping green. The last 5 yards before the green kill anything hit into it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

The problem with photos is that you lose the third dimension.

It's hard to tell how steep the approach is.

Do most members play a running or an aerial shot into that green ?

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Yea it's needs a side view to really understand the feature.

It's not too steep but rather consistent from 30 yards out to the back of the green. The 2-5 yards just in front of the green however is pretty steep and as I mentioned stops almost all shots from running up onto the green. The play is predominantly aerial but because of the length of the hole (420-440 yards) a lot of players are hitting a 3rd shot from 30-80 yards out. I can't tell you how many times when caddying that I'll warn them about having to either fly it all the way back or run it up all the way from the start because the collar short of the green will kill anything hit into it. Of course at least half of them pitch it right into the collar only to see it sit there in front of the green.

As you mentioned the hardest pins are front ones however in thinking about it, the hole is predominantly cut in the middle or back.

[Tim Gavrich]

I think this describes the fascinating 16th hole at New Haven CC, which I played yesterday on a near-run, to escape an approaching thunderstorm.  It's about a 380 yard hole where the approach is way downhill to a green admittedly steeper than in the OP (big collection slope on the back-right part that gathers balls towards the center), but it seemed that if you landed the ball JUST short of the green, it would stay there and might even roll back a bit.  Really cool hole.

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