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Patrick_Mucci

Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2011, 03:57:04 PM »
Kalen,

Thanks, great find and great photo.

I've often maintained that the 7th green at NGLA would be a great par 3 from any of the 360 degree angles of attack.

I think almost every "Road Hole" green probably fits that bill.

It seems to me that tremendous variety is added at very little cost.

While the routing would have to accomodate multiple tees, I'm surprised that this feature isn't employed with greater frequency as the bang for the buck seems enormous.

I'd be curious to hear the opinions of the concept from the architects who frequent this site
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Mark Chaplin

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2011, 04:59:28 PM »
Kalen - I played the Montgomerie in Dubai a few years ago the hole is around the 12th or 13th and the hole does have a 360 degree tee, the green is around 120 yards long.
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Cave Nil Vino

Bill_McBride

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2011, 05:07:49 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on July 25, 2011, 12:11:19 PM
the tees allow for drastically different angles of attack into the green ?

I seem to recall that an early green at Bandon had a tee far right, say at 2 o'clock and another tee, more widely used, at 6 o'clock.

THAT WOULD BE THE 2ND, WITH ONE TEE UP HIGH WITH THE FIRST GREEN, THE OTHER DOWN LOW PLAYING INTO THE SLOPE UPHILL.  IT CREATES TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TEE SHOTS.

This created an entirely angle/method for play.

# 13 at NGLA might qualify if a tee left of # 12 green is introduced into the footpad.

YOU'VE BEEN PUSHING THIS FOR YEARS.  NO ONE AT NGLA SEEMS TOO INTERESTED.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2011, 05:52:55 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on July 25, 2011, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on July 25, 2011, 12:11:19 PM
the tees allow for drastically different angles of attack into the green ?

I seem to recall that an early green at Bandon had a tee far right, say at 2 o'clock and another tee, more widely used, at 6 o'clock.

THAT WOULD BE THE 2ND, WITH ONE TEE UP HIGH WITH THE FIRST GREEN, THE OTHER DOWN LOW PLAYING INTO THE SLOPE UPHILL.  IT CREATES TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TEE SHOTS.

This created an entirely angle/method for play.

# 13 at NGLA might qualify if a tee left of # 12 green is introduced into the footpad.

YOU'VE BEEN PUSHING THIS FOR YEARS.  NO ONE AT NGLA SEEMS TOO INTERESTED.
How would you know ?


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paul cowley

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2011, 06:30:18 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on July 25, 2011, 03:36:09 PM
Pat,

I posted this years ago, but there is a course in the Dubai area, a Desmund Muirhead one IIRC, that has a 360 degree par 3.  The island in the middle being the green and supposedly the tees can be setup anywhere around it.  Doesn't get much more diverse than this I think!!  ;)



I doubt this green had much movement except in the middle...maybe...probably not!
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Bill_McBride

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2011, 07:07:42 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on July 25, 2011, 05:52:55 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on July 25, 2011, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on July 25, 2011, 12:11:19 PM
the tees allow for drastically different angles of attack into the green ?

I seem to recall that an early green at Bandon had a tee far right, say at 2 o'clock and another tee, more widely used, at 6 o'clock.

THAT WOULD BE THE 2ND, WITH ONE TEE UP HIGH WITH THE FIRST GREEN, THE OTHER DOWN LOW PLAYING INTO THE SLOPE UPHILL.  IT CREATES TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TEE SHOTS.

This created an entirely angle/method for play.

# 13 at NGLA might qualify if a tee left of # 12 green is introduced into the footpad.

YOU'VE BEEN PUSHING THIS FOR YEARS.  NO ONE AT NGLA SEEMS TOO INTERESTED.
How would you know ?



Purely from an empirical perspective -- the club hasn't built a new tee!

Or have they?
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2011, 07:27:14 PM »
Bill,

That doesn't mean that new tees aren't "in the works", and/or being considered
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Bill_McBride

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2011, 10:09:25 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on July 25, 2011, 07:27:14 PM
Bill,

That doesn't mean that new tees aren't "in the works", and/or being considered


I hope you win out with that tee on 13, I think the hole would play better.   Right now there is way too wide a gap between "Hill" and "Strath."
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Jeff Shelman

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2011, 11:35:29 PM »
No. 14 at The Harvester in Iowa has two very different sets of tees with different angles of attack.

You can see it here: http://www.harvestergolf.com/course/hole14.html
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2011, 11:57:02 PM »
Bill,

When I was last there several people told me they enjoy playing the 7th over the 11th, but that just might be the "newness" factor.

I like the ability to play it both ways.

Time will tell
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Alex Lagowitz

Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2011, 12:26:25 AM »
number 9 at Essex County Country Club has a lower teeing area and an upper one..
the lower has no view of the putting surface and is much more uphill where as the upper teeing area has a view of the green
interesting to walk off 8 and guess where the tee is today :)
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Ed Oden

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2011, 12:49:39 AM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on July 25, 2011, 12:11:19 PM
I seem to recall that an early green at Bandon had a tee far right, say at 2 o'clock and another tee, more widely used, at 6 o'clock.

Pat, I assume you are referring to the 2nd hole at Bandon Dunes.  Here is a picture taken from the current tee...



...and another taken from the 3rd tee directly left of the green where you can see the old tee at roughly a 90% angle from the current tee...




I don't believe the old tee is used any more.

Someone else mentioned the 10th hole at Pacific Dunes.  Although not as drastic of an angle change, the combination length, elevation, angle and wind effect makes this hole play as dramatically different as any two tees I have seen.  The view from the lower tee (used when the lower green on #9 is in play, which I understand is almost never)...



...and the view from the upper tee (used when the upper green on #9 is in play)...




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Sean_A

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2011, 03:51:15 AM »
I really like an emphasis on width/angles from any tee and am disappointed when is see the land available and it isn't used - instead its the same ole thing with focusing on different yardage rather than angles.  Burnham's 9th has a long curving tee which creates totally different shots.  The 5th too makes a quite a difference if the right or left tee is used.  St Enodoc's 5th has a much harder right tee because the green isn't receptive from that angle.  Harborne's 6th has a great mix of width in the tees. 

Ciao
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2011, 05:44:12 AM »
Royal Lytham next year's Open Venue.   They start with a different hole to the one visitor's do.  Much tougher.

Good graphic, select Hole 1.


http://www.royallytham.org/hole_by_hole
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David_Madison

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2011, 06:53:54 AM »
3rd hole at TPC Eagle Trace in Coral Springs, Fl. At least a 30 degree swing from the far left tee (over water but with a direct line into the green) to the far right tee (over land but to the green which is angled and tilted away from you).
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Kevin Pallier

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2011, 08:47:18 AM »
St. Andrews Beach 11th
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Kevin Pallier

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2011, 08:52:44 AM »
Quote from: Ed Oden on July 26, 2011, 12:49:39 AM
...and another taken from the 3rd tee directly left of the green where you can see the old tee at roughly a 90% angle from the current tee...



I don't believe the old tee is used any more.

Ed

It was by me - during my first ever game at Bandon.  :-[

Venturing out without a course guide after coming off the first green - I naturally assumed it was the tee box for #2. Gave me an excuse to go back and hit another one from the new tee.
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Anthony Gray

Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2011, 09:01:27 AM »


  I think all the 3s at Tobacco Road are set up like this.

  Anthony

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Sean Leary

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2011, 01:31:06 PM »
Was the tee at Number 2 at Bandon ever the main tee? I played there right after it opened and played the "new" tee....
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2011, 11:20:30 PM »
Quote from: Sean Leary on July 26, 2011, 01:31:06 PM
Was the tee at Number 2 at Bandon ever the main tee? I played there right after it opened and played the "new" tee....

Sean,

When I first played there in 2003, I was told that the lower tee was the tee of preference.

Perhaps someone familiar with the history of that hole can enlighten us on the reasons for the two tees, their usage and future.
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Wyatt Halliday

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2011, 12:34:18 AM »
Quote from: Ken Fry on July 25, 2011, 12:18:19 PM
There are three par 3 holes I've played with different angles into the green:  #2 at The Dunes Club, #3 at Angel's Crossing and #9 at Kingsley.  All have about a 90 degree difference between the teeing grounds.

Ken

I'm partial to the South tee. In fact, I would never again play the West tee if given the choice.
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Link Walsh

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2011, 01:01:27 AM »
Someone else mentioned the 10th hole at Pacific Dunes.  Although not as drastic of an angle change, the combination length, elevation, angle and wind effect makes this hole play as dramatically different as any two tees I have seen.  The view from the lower tee (used when the lower green on #9 is in play, which I understand is almost never)...


So they don't use the lower green/ lower tee very much at 9 and 10?  I think 9 and 10 are much better holes that way.  Sure, the upper tee has the view, but it's basically a short iron, isn't it?  I would think that with 11 (except in summer wind) and 14 being short par 3s on the back that having 10 as a longer hole would be good change of pace.

If this is indeed true, are there any reasons behind it?  Just curious.  My buddy is going out next month. 
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Martin Toal

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2011, 02:10:13 AM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on July 25, 2011, 03:36:09 PM
Pat,

I posted this years ago, but there is a course in the Dubai area, a Desmund Muirhead one IIRC, that has a 360 degree par 3.  The island in the middle being the green and supposedly the tees can be setup anywhere around it.  Doesn't get much more diverse than this I think!!  ;)



This is at The Montgomerie Club in Dubai. I played there and this hole is a rather silly and underwhelming one. It really is a rather silly idea and a conceit.
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J Sadowsky

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2011, 08:39:22 AM »
Along with a few others already mentioned, the 16th at Golden Horseshoe (Gold) came to mind.

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Howard Riefs

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Re: How many par 3's have you played where
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2011, 01:00:26 PM »
The 6th hole at Prairie Landing, a RTJ Jr. design in West Chicago. 

Here's a view from the back of the green, with three separate tee complexes at roughly 10:00, 12:00 and 1:00.

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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke
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