[Anthony_Nysse]

This just came through my email this morning from the USGA. This is the difference between life and survival....

"Check out the eight degree temperature difference in this image. The reading on the left was taken on a putting green that received very limited air movement across the surface as a result of surrounding trees. The reading on the right was taken on a green that received good airflow.  

In addition to the lower temperature, the green that receives plenty of air movement is far less prone to disease and other stresses.

If both greens are syringed, which one will benefit the most? As the wind moves across a green with good air movement the surface temperature will drop even further, much like the cooling effect that occurs when the wind blows across the sweat on your arms on a hot day."

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

Yeah, wish I had fans on all 20 greens this week.

[Don_Mahaffey]

I know the value of air movement...but that email never mentions fans. Iit does say the higher temp green is surrounded by trees which block air movement. Isn't the message more about trees that block air circulation then fans?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Let me correct myself....this shows the importance of air movement, which in many cases can include fans.

[BCrosby]

In the SE, if you have bent greens, you gotta do what you gotta do. But getting air movement comes at a cost.

The cost of installing and maintaining fans and the electical grid to support them, the expense of the electricity they need (very expensive in most areas), their unsightly appearance - and after all that you still have to pay someone to spritz them everyday.

The expense and the anxiety involved in keeping bent greens alive (firm and fast are not options) during the dog days of summer might have made sense when there were no alternatives to the quality of good bent greens. That's no longer the case.

Ultradwarfs have issues too, but those issues are far more manageable than the ones confronting bent greens in the SE.

Bob  

[Bill_McBride]

Bob, as well as the ultradwarf greens looked and putted at Cherokee North in June, I think it's just a matter of time until Southern golf courses make the switch.  There was little difference between the nice bent greens we played the afternoon before at Rivermont and the ultradwarf greens we played at Cherokee the next morning.   Speed, firmness, consistency, color - no appreciable difference, at least to my uneducated eye and meager putting skills.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I have no idea where the USGA took these readings from, but it could very well have been inthe northeast or even Pine Valley! I, for one, am very much looking forward to Atlanta Athletic Club hosting the PGA this year as it will be played on Champion ultradwaft. I think that this will be a new beginning to using courses below the Mason Dixon line to host big time events. With the summer that ATL has has, I'm sure the PGA is glad they they are not trying to deal with betgrass and get the firmness and speed they want.

[Joe Bausch]

What kind of grass is that in the photo?

[John Kavanaugh]

Let me correct myself....this shows the importance of air movement, which in many cases can include fans.

There were a lot fewer feminine products on the market back when women wore skirts.  When my wife worked in Chicago as a social worker she was informed to wear tight jeans to give her extra time to escape an attempted rape.  I felt that restriction of air flow was a fair trade off.  I'm starting to come around on fans if they are a last option for not having golf at all.  The problem is, like jeans at work, they are more a reflection of the laziness of the modern workforce.

 

[Ronald Montesano]

Looks like the same plot of grass, with different readings...

[Anthony_Nysse]

Looks like the same plot of grass, with different readings...

It's showing the surface temperature of the green-1 with air movement and one without.

[John Kavanaugh]

Looks like the same plot of grass, with different readings...

It's showing the surface temperature of the green-1 with air movement and one without.

Isn't that a thermo wind meter?  I think it measures the temperature of the wind and not the green.  This is just another con job to sell more fans.

[George Pazin]

At what temp does the grass start to have problems?

[John Kavanaugh]

At what temp does the grass start to have problems?

Ever heard of winter kill.  Temps don't kill grass, people kill grass.

[George Pazin]

That's partly why I asked. To just throw out temperature readings is meaningless to someone like me. If the grass has a problem at 95 degrees, then there's obviously a benefit to the air movement (assuming the readings are indeed accurate for the grass and not the air flow). Not so much if problems start at 110, or even 80.

[John Kavanaugh]

That's partly why I asked. To just throw out temperature readings is meaningless to someone like me. If the grass has a problem at 95 degrees, then there's obviously a benefit to the air movement (assuming the readings are indeed accurate for the grass and not the air flow). Not so much if problems start at 110, or even 80.

What upsets me about the picture as presented is that it looks like a probe is part of the device to gain an accurate green temperature.  After doing some research it looks to me like the photographer took his thermo wind meter out to a green and held it in the hottest place he could find then set it down and took a pic.  He then turned the fan on and held the device in front of the fan then set the device down and took another pic.  Given the exact shadow configuration there was not enough time passed to cool the green down to that extent simply by blowing a fan over the top.

[SL_Solow]

Barney, recogmizing that fans are not an ideal solution, do you dispute the proposition that air flow is important to the growth of cool weather grasses, particularly poa annua and ( I believe) to a lesser extent, bent grass?  If that proposition is correct, and if a green is situated in an area where air flow is significantly restricted, then, absent alternative solutions, aren't fans a practical and perhaps necessarry remedy to keep the grass alive?

[Ian Larson]

I have soil greens that received an inch of rain last week and its been this 90+ degree days ever since. I refuse to put any more water on them and would love to have fans going if I had them. I dont so I have two guys circling greens with big leaf blowers as I give them a very light syringe. Im seeing a 10 degree difference.

[JMEvensky]

That's partly why I asked. To just throw out temperature readings is meaningless to someone like me. If the grass has a problem at 95 degrees, then there's obviously a benefit to the air movement (assuming the readings are indeed accurate for the grass and not the air flow). Not so much if problems start at 110, or even 80.

Definitely not a Super,but...

When we had bent grass greens (Memphis),the Super always worried more about the nights.It's a given that we'll have multiple consecutive 90*+ days,but it's the high 80's at night (with our usual high humidity) that really slam dunks you.The greens never got any relief.

Growing bent grass in this part of the world is a fool's errand--no matter how big the budget,or the fans.

[John Kavanaugh]

Barney, recogmizing that fans are not an ideal solution, do you dispute the proposition that air flow is important to the growth of cool weather grasses, particularly poa annua and ( I believe) to a lesser extent, bent grass?  If that proposition is correct, and if a green is situated in an area where air flow is significantly restricted, then, absent alternative solutions, aren't fans a practical and perhaps necessarry remedy to keep the grass alive?

I do believe fans are an option which is why I gave the extreme example of when it was acceptable for my wife to wear tight jeans at work.  My largest concern is when people buy into the idea that the primary reason a green is alive is because of the fan and they panic and buy fans for all their greens.  One or two fans is less memorable than one or two dead greens.  18 or 20 fans is unforgettable and obtrusive.

[Anthony_Nysse]

At what temp does the grass start to have problems?

George,
  Bentgrass struggles when it gets above 88 degrees. They recover at night when the lows are 70 or less. Not much recovery going on the in the midwest and northeast right now....

[Carl Nichols]

That's partly why I asked. To just throw out temperature readings is meaningless to someone like me. If the grass has a problem at 95 degrees, then there's obviously a benefit to the air movement (assuming the readings are indeed accurate for the grass and not the air flow). Not so much if problems start at 110, or even 80.

What upsets me about the picture as presented is that it looks like a probe is part of the device to gain an accurate green temperature.  After doing some research it looks to me like the photographer took his thermo wind meter out to a green and held it in the hottest place he could find then set it down and took a pic.  He then turned the fan on and held the device in front of the fan then set the device down and took another pic.  Given the exact shadow configuration there was not enough time passed to cool the green down to that extent simply by blowing a fan over the top.

John:
I'm not sure if all of the conclusions you've drawn here are accurate [including that the device was held in front of the fan and then put down for the picture], but the email strongly implies that these measurements were taken on different greens around the same time, while the shadow makes it look like the pics were taken of the same green.

[Stephen Britton]

I would take 97deg surface temp right now...

Surface temps at 107deg, soil temps at 97deg in DC right now...

Heat index 113 and golfers still teeing off

[John Kavanaugh]

I would take 97deg surface temp right now...

Surface temps at 107deg, soil temps at 97deg in DC right now...

Heat index 113 and golfers still teeing off

Exactly,

Dropping a surface temp from 97.5 to 89.3 at what appears to be 1 o'clock in the afternoon by turning on a fan is an outright lie.

[Carl Nichols]

I would take 97deg surface temp right now...

Surface temps at 107deg, soil temps at 97deg in DC right now...

Heat index 113 and golfers still teeing off

I played Weds afternoon in Bethesda and it was crazy hot -- and it's ten degrees hotter today!

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