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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Top Ten Post-modern - voting ends Sunday
« Reply #300 on: August 02, 2011, 06:14:51 PM »
Does designating a thread as sticky effectively kill it? Or does it extend its life?

Anyway, quality of thread-life issues notwithstanding, the closest we have to Le Guide Rouge are Peugeot's guide and Doak's inestimable (cardinal-number humor, look it up) The Confidential Guide.Does designating a thread as sticky effectively kill it? Or does it extend its life?

Anyway, quality of thread-life issues notwithstanding, the closest we have to Le Guide Rouge are Peugeot's guide and Doak's inestimable (cardinal-number humor, look it up) The Confidential Guide.


David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top Ten Post-modern - voting ends Sunday
« Reply #301 on: August 02, 2011, 09:00:14 PM »
Mark, I completely agree, and of course Cardinal rankings should be in a red guide.

I wonder if Tom would resuscitate the confidential guide as a licensed property, or do a new Doak guide, as an antidote and alternative source of rankings.  Let the owners and operators fret over getting their stars when the Doak rater team shows up unannounced for the biennial re-rating.

If there's one thing truly startling about the magazine lists is how stable the ratings are.  Most courses move little, up or down.  The ratings are largely calcified, meaning there is little incentive to change or improve.  This is a side effect of the ordinal rankings derived from tranches.  You have to figure that most of the raters aren't revisiting most courses most cycles, so a course that is a rater's 65 but isn't seen in a cycle isn't likely to move up to 49, or down to 76, so no change.

On a cardinal ranking, like the Doak scale, there is no artificial limit on the number of courses at any level.  And if the rankings are revisited each cycle, there's no inertia from the past carrying the course along.  That would have 2 beneficial consequences.

1) Consumers would know that since Courses would get a look every cycle, that changes good and bad were reflected in the rankings, and
2) Courses who wanted to get more stars/points would know they would get a look, and reward, the next cycle

Jim, is there a way to estimate the probability that each course is a 0, 1, 2, or 3? 

Dave
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Andy Troeger

Re: Top Ten Post-modern - voting ends Sunday
« Reply #302 on: August 02, 2011, 11:14:41 PM »
I admittedly know little/nothing about the true Michelin Guide, so my comment was more aimed at this exercise where the two star courses had to be limited to the top ten in the world for the category. Given a limited number of "awards" to hand out, I had to cut in the middle of a group of courses that I really consider almost equals. But I have a hard time with the 0-10 Doak Scale. I'd give about half the courses a 5.5 or a 7.5 or whatever decimal to create more categories there too.

Funny thing...I have a spreadsheet to use for my personal list. Its too formulaic for most people I'm sure, but I have to rate by category for Golf Digest anyway so I just change the weights around and add in a couple categories that are important to me (FUN!). On my personal list, it bothers me beyond reason to have a tie at two decimal places! So you can imagine, these scales where you give a bunch of courses the same score just bug me. I'll have to learn to get over it.  :D

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top Ten Post-modern - voting ends Sunday
« Reply #303 on: August 03, 2011, 07:28:56 AM »

JC Jones and Jud Tigerman-Just because I gave Arcadia Bluffs one star does not mean I think it is "equal" to Kingsley.  Arcadia is a low one star and Kingsley is a mid one star in my book...how do you compare the two courses?  Interesting to note that both Brad Klein and Tom Doak also gave Arcadia Bluffs one star...


Well, who am I to argue with the gospel of the GCA lord(s)?  I mean, we are only one paid bus tour away from hearing how we should all take the Trump Trail from LA to Philly/NYC to Scotland.

Seriously, if someone wants to rate Kingsley Club a *, I disagree but I can understand that people only accept that kind of golf overseas and not in the US (unless it was designed by C&C or Doak).  However, Arcadia Bluffs is like the bearded woman with a funnel cake in one hand and fried cheese on a stick in the other.  Sure its fun to go see the freak show every now and again, but don't try to tell me it belongs in the same theater as Hamlet.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top Ten Post-modern - voting ends Sunday
« Reply #304 on: August 03, 2011, 08:12:36 AM »



However, Arcadia Bluffs is like the bearded woman with a funnel cake in one hand and fried cheese on a stick in the other.  


Frankly, the bearded woman sounds a lot more entertaining than Arcadia, and surely a better value....I guess the * designation means "new and notable" which encompasses a wide spectrum of stuff.  Given all the hype, scenery and ratings one could qualify Arcadia as notable, at least if one's not talking strictly about the GCA...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top Ten Post-modern - voting ends Sunday
« Reply #305 on: August 03, 2011, 11:49:23 AM »
Jesus, this would be a tough dinner crowd. Order the wrong thing and say you enjoyed it and get ridiculed for paying to much for slop. Pretty much what is happening in this thread.

I think we need a topic entitled "Why my opinion carries more weight than yours?" and to start the topic I nominate...

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top Ten Post-modern - voting ends Sunday
« Reply #306 on: August 03, 2011, 12:13:48 PM »
Hey, if you're gonna go to Don Emiliano and insist on ordering a plain steak and baked potatoe you get what you deserve... ;)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top Ten Post-modern - voting ends Sunday
« Reply #307 on: August 03, 2011, 12:15:15 PM »
Hey, if you're gonna go to Don Emiliano and insist on ordering a plain steak and baked potatoe you get what you deserve... ;)

I would hope a restaurant with such a name would at least have my favorite... refried beans!   ;)

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