[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

You guessed it.

Normally 5 plays into the prevailing wind.  If you had a tailwind on 5 consider yourself lucky because in my 3 playings i either had no wind or a wind into the face.  And it is indeed a beast...best score I've taken here is a bogey 5.

I really love the sand river feature on this hole and others...its very cool

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 6: Par 3, 180 Yards

A solid, straightforward nader-ish par 3 with a kicker short-left and bunkers short-right and long.








Once again, the kicker is not quite as simple as it looks.  I aimed two balls at the left fringe figuring a shot that was pulled or pushed a bit would work just fine.  Wrong!  The kicker is very severe well left of the green and becomes less severe the closer to the green you get and becomes completely flat a couple of yards off the green.  To take advantage of the kicker you have to aim for it (or miss your shot WAY left).  The kicker is so severe that if you are brave enough to get your ball to land just inside the left tall grass, the ball will funnel all the way to the back-right portion of the green.





In fact, using the kicker may be the best way to get to the right portion of the green because a shot that misses right leaves a tough recovery.

[RJ_Daley]

If there is one course I really want to play, it is WV.  It is the closest looking course I've seen to WH.  

Mark seems to have made a summer golf journey of a lifetime.  Well done, Mark!  I really don't think I've seen any better series of documentations of great golf courses, as a series, ever, on GCA.com.  

In the spirit and humor of "who was that masked man"...  could you tell us more about yourself, Mark

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,240.595.html

or

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45175.0.html

[Kalen Braley]

RJ,

We met Mark at our outing at Chambers Bay.  He's a very low key guy who loves to play golf and also shot an impressive 75 at Chambers on Sunday!!

[Mark Saltzman]

In the spirit and humor of "who was that masked man"...  could you tell us more about yourself, Mark

RJ,

Done.




Hole 7: Par 5, 535 Yards

A good hole with a great green.  There is a tee somewhere in another country at 600+ and I'm sure the hole plays really different from there.

Though it is not clear from the picture, there is a bunker on the right side of the fairway about 235 yards from the tee and 250 yards to carry.  The bunker on the left is about 285 yards out so most players can bail out by aiming left.




The course did a phenomenal job of rewarding risks.  The fairway gets very wide over the right bunker and if you can carry it you are rewarded with a significant slope.  Shots carrying the bunker should get at least an extra fifty yards of roll.




The right side of the fairway is where you really want to be off the tee.  Most players can't get home in two, but you really want to lay-up short and left of the green.  From there you get to look straight up the throat of the undulating 7th green.




The view from the left is blind and requires the player to carefully pick his line for his second shot.




Layups short and right of the green leave a blind approach to the green.  Anyone that has played WV knows you want to be able to see this green for your third.




From short and left the punchbowl green is in full view.




Having played several Engh designs, I am still comfortable saying this is the most severe punchbowl I have ever seen.  It would take a lot of time around this green to learn the right place to land the ball if you want to use the slopes.  For example, I landed a ball well into the slope back right and had it roll of the front-left part of the green. 

I chipped three balls from where this next picture was taken and tried to use the slope just past the pin... all three rolled back well past the pin (you can see them if you look closely).

Perhaps the slopes are too severe.  I would need to see the course more times to really say either way. 

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 8: Par 3, 200 Yards

Having just finished with 7 green, I think I was slope-crazy.  When I first looked at 8, I thought that I should try to play a draw and land the ball right of the right bunker and use the slope there to bring the ball onto the green.






I'm not sure how I missed it, but I didn't notice this massive slope short-left of the green that one can use to funnel the ball onto the green. 

For those that have played WV, is the slope obvious from the tee?  Looking at it now I have no idea how I didn't see it.




The yardage guide says this is the most difficult green on the course.  Again, I disagree (see post on hole 7), but there is a significant ridge running through the center of the green.  This slope makes shots from the bunker to a back pin extremely difficult as you have to carry the ball a long way to get over the slope and stop it quickly.  I found out that shots landing into the slope will run all the way down to the front edge of the green leaving a very difficult two-putt.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 9: Par 4, 430 Yards

A hole I didn't overly care for - just a way to get from 8 back to the clubhouse.  Not a ton to add to the pictures here.  Shots that challenge the left bunker are left with an approach that does not need to carry the water on the 2nd shot and provide easier access to a back-right pin.








Another difficult green at WV with significant contouring, especially around the easier (front) pin positions.  The back portion of the green is fairly flat, rewarding a player that gets his shot near the most difficult pin on the green.

[Peter Ferlicca]

7 is one of my favorites par 5's anywhere.  Once you take on the task of the tee shot, you are then in the go zone of hitting a massive three wood over the huge right bunker guarding the green.  The first time around I blocked it a little right of the bunker, I thought I would be in trouble, only to walk up there and see the green is in a huge bowl.  You could spend hours trying approach shots into that green.  This is a green that asks for a shot not at the pin but one way off a sideboard.  The hole is all about angles on your tee shot, second shot, and then approach shot.  

It was also cool because on this hole there was a coyote that was in the left rough, it followed us for the next three holes just watching as a spectator would.  

[RJ_Daley]

While 'newbie' Mark may not get this,  I have got to make that visit to see Slag Bandoon once again, and get him to meet me in Walla Walla.  Besides being an ideal Wine Valley course guide, able to tell campfire stories about the building of this great course, I'll bet he knows the best roadhouse establishments there to boot.

[Chris Johnston]

Mark - the journey contunues!  Great photos.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 10: Par 5, 580 Yards

A very straightforward par 5, bunkerless except for a single bunker in front of the green that defines the hole.


The tee shot has a ton of width.  Anything between tall grass left and right works just fine.





Strategy on the second shot is simple too.  Get the ball in the right side of the fairway to give a clear look at the green.





This is one of the most difficult greens at WV.   Approaching from the left means you can't see the putting surface, but...





The further right your lay-up...




The clearer the view of the green.





Missing this green means big trouble.  The hole is simple and you are supposed to hit this green in regulation.  If you don't you are unlikely to walk away with par.

There are large run-offs from all directions of the green.  If you miss your target by just a few yards, you will roll at least 10-15 yards from the surface.  Also notice the green is at a diagonal to an approach from the right, making a shot from there significantly more difficult.




To make matters worse, the run-offs are significantly contoured with several 'humps'.  Much like undulations on a green, these humps make it very difficult to get the ball close to the hole.  If humps of this size were placed on the green, the word unfair would certainly be used by some, but by placing them in the run-offs, it's all good...




As previously mentioned, one the most significantly contoured greens at WV.  The simplicity of the hole means you are supposed to hit this green in regulation, and probably reasonably close to the hole.  If you don't, 5 is a tough score to make.

[Mike Hendren]

How far from Seattle?  4+ hours?

Anything else in the vicinity or along the way.

Thanks for the tour.

Mike

[Kalen Braley]

How far from Seattle?  4+ hours?

Anything else in the vicinity or along the way.

Thanks for the tour.

Mike

Mike,

Its going to be about that from Sea Tac.  If you fly into Spokane airport though, its only 2.5 hrs.

If you stay in the Spokane area, there is also Gozzer Ranch, Black Rock, Idaho Club, Circling Raven, Palouse Ridge...those 1st 3 depending on access.

[Mark Saltzman]

How far from Seattle?  4+ hours?

Anything else in the vicinity or along the way.

Thanks for the tour.

Mike

Mike,

From Seattle it is about 4.5 hours.  Depends on how fast you want to go, it could be less.

Tumble Creek (Doak, Private) is about 90 miles from Seattle and is right on the way.

About 100 miles NE of Wine Valley is Palouse Ridge (Public), which I think is a solid Doak 6, possibly 7.

[Josh_Mahar]

I agree with Dick-WV looks like a fun, fun place to play golf!  Thanks for the write-up.

[Garland Bayley]

We used to have Matt Ward on the board who claimed to have played Wine Valley, and promised us professional pictures of it, which never materialized. I for one am glad that Matt's absence has made room for Mark and the definitive Wine Valley tour.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 10: Par 5, 580 Yards

...


 The hole is simple and you are supposed to hit this green in regulation.  If you don't you are unlikely to walk away with par.

...


As previously mentioned, one the most significantly contoured greens at WV.  The simplicity of the hole means you are supposed to hit this green in regulation, and probably reasonably close to the hole.  If you don't, 5 is a tough score to make.

Where there's a will, there's a way.


 

 
 

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 10: Par 5, 580 Yards

...


 The hole is simple and you are supposed to hit this green in regulation.  If you don't you are unlikely to walk away with par.

...


As previously mentioned, one the most significantly contoured greens at WV.  The simplicity of the hole means you are supposed to hit this green in regulation, and probably reasonably close to the hole.  If you don't, 5 is a tough score to make.

Where there's a will, there's a way.


 

 
 

So how many shots were there between the two pictures?

I'm guessing it went something like: thinned wedge from collection area to bunker; thinned wedge from bunker to collection area; learned lesson earlier, used putter to green;  left putt just short

[Garland Bayley]

Pitch hole high left. Made putt.  PAR, win hole from Kalen.

[Kalen Braley]

As I recall, Garland did get it up and down from the spot, but it was to save bogey to win the hole 6 and 7. 

[Sven Nilsen]

Mark:

Thanks for what is turning out to be a great photo tour.

I had the chance to play WV last fall on a beautiful early October day and thoroughly enjoyed the course, probably more so than Chambers Bay which I'd played the day before.  I found WV to present a slew of strategic options that were precluded by the length and demands of Chambers Bay, and there was a bit more movement around the greens which made recovery shots and putting a ton of fun.

Some quick thoughts on the front 9 and the course in general -

A.  I like the way they hid the bulk of the maintenance, parking and clubhouse facilities from view while you're on the course.  If I'm not mistaken, the parking lot area was lowered in order to keep it hidden while you're on the course.

B.  There's a tremendous amount of wildlife in the tall grasses of Eastern Washington.

C.  I thought the 3 hole opener was pretty strong, and enjoyed the way the holes folded back on each other with a lot of short grass in the connecting areas, especially the way the 2nd fairway evolves out of the 1st.

D.  I thought the front was a hair harder than the back, especially 3, 5, 7 and 9.  I didn't have a ton of wind the day I played (maybe 5-10mph), but it did make 1 and 3 a bit harder while not seeming to help too much on 2 and 7.

E.  I loved the green on 7.  We had a front pin which meant you could play a bunch of different types of shots to try to funnel down to the lowest tier.  I probably hit about 5 balls during my second round from about 100 out to see how different shots worked.

F.  The only hole from the front I don't remember that well is 8, not sure why this is because the pictures you posted make it look like a ton of fun.  Perhaps it wasn't too eventful for me, or something tragic happened that I've completely blocked from memory.

G.  When putting from just off the green on a few holes, the contours at the edges of the greens were just tricky enough that one had to pay special attention to the initial reaction of the ball.

H.  I ended up playing a bunch of holes with a local who did some computer work for the club.  He was extremely proud of the course and was a great guide with respect to shots to be played and trouble to be avoided.  My first round felt like I had played the course before, and while playing by myself on my second round I felt like I knew the ins and outs pretty well.

I.  With respect to two of things you mentioned, I didn't even consider going for the left fairway on 3.  I'm not sure what the benefits would be of going that way other than the green does align a bit for a shot from that angle.  However, the risks of driving into the rough and/or having to clear the water would lead me to stay right.  On 6, I also was perplexed by the way the slopes on the right funneled shots to the green.  My first go I tried to play just left of the green hoping for the ball to feed on, only to see my ball stop a yard to the left of the green edge.  If you want to risk going well left, you might get a bit more roll, but it seemed to me the shot to play was on line with the left third of the green, taking the trouble on the right out of play.

Looking forward to the rest of the tour.

Sven

[Garland Bayley]

As I recall, Garland did get it up and down from the spot, but it was to save bogey to win the hole 6 and 7. 

Go back and read the thread Dude!

Too bad about your memory getting so weak at such a young age.
 

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 11: Par 3, 155 Yards

A little more deception with the slopes at WV.  One (or at least I) expected that shots landing over the bunker front-right would kick towards the back-left.  Wrong again.  Only shots well right of the green can use the kicker.






Overall, a straightforward short par 3, but this one large hump left of the green made shots that miss left very difficult.  It's amazing how one bump can change the nature of a hole.





Hole 12: Par 4, 405 Yards

A very solid par 4.  The farther left the tee shot, the easier approach, but the sand river is back in play guarding the left side of the fairway.  Fortunately, the fairway slopes severely right to left, allowing the player to aim down the right side of the fairway and still be left with an approach from the left.




The view from where the majority of tee shots will end up.




As will be seen, you really don't want to miss the approach left.  Again, the clever player can play away from the danger using this massive slope short-right of the green to funnel the ball down to the hole (though it is not apparent from the fairway that this slope is here to be used).




A look at the trouble left shows that a miss left is lucky if it finds the bunker.  The more natural stuff is just bad news.




A look at the green shows a green with less internal contouring than many at WV, but some rather severe undulations at the back-right and back-left portions of the green.




A look from behind at the kicker short-right of the green.




A look at the green (and a better look at the trouble left of the green) from the next tee:

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 13: Par 4, 435 Yards

In my opinion, one of the weakest holes on the course.  When I was in the fairway, I was thinking that this is the type of hole that one tries to find interesting when playing a very good golf course.  Sure there are a couple of interesting slopes and run-offs, but really it is a mediocre hole. If it was at a poorer course, it would just get passed-off as one OK hole among many.  So here it is...

There are bunkers right and left off the tee.  Both are reachable with the ones on the right being carry-able by the longer hitters.




There is a large downslope over the right bunkers and it seems they are widening the fairway to reward players who carry the bunkers.  Still, the angle from the right is miserable.





The preferred angle is from the left and allows the player to use the kicker short-right of the green.




Said kicker. 





Once again, the kicker cannot be used by accident.  Shots hit long enough to fly onto the green, but hit at the kicker, will fly the kicker and find this very difficult runoff.

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

Agreed on the 13th...I like the green complex on this hole and thats where it ends.  The tee shot is definitly one of the most un-interesting on the course and visually its like watching "Home on the Prairie" after you've been feasting on "Moulin Rouge" up till that point in the round.  Thankfully it gets right back going on the next hole.

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