GRUDGE MATCH, The Sequel--High Handicappers Play a Great Course--Chambers Bay

[Garland Bayley]

...
The one part of my game that deserted me unexpectedly was my putting. I missed 5 putts that were all in the 5-6 foot range.  I would normally make at least 3 if not 4 of those.  Of course the reason why i had so many of those is because I was having trouble on the 1st putt in getting it into gimmee range.
...

Kalen,

Now you know why you have been reporting such good scores from Palouse Ridge where the greens are so flat you might as well be putting on a billiard table. My nongolfing wife could make 5 footers there.
 

[Garland Bayley]

Garland and Kalen,

That was wonderful drama gentlemen.
I wish I could have been there in person though your writing gives the tale a certain elan. I so enjoy these hard-fought battles, between mere mortals, where the proponents skill can, all of a sudden, desert them and in the next moment an audacious shot of pure magic turns the tables. These shots, in my experience, can be just as surprising to the executor as to the "executed". The agonising that one goes through as a triple bogey is carded. Of course this can give way to such sweet relief, tinged I am sure in your case with  a dab of "the milk of human kindness", when the opponent stumbles in with a quadruple bogey and actually allows you to win the hole.  I suspect these moments of unbridled joy are rarely endured by your scratch and low-handicap man!
Tragic as this may sound I have spent more time reading and visualising this exciting match that you have had than I spent on the recent Open. But then I think I have my priorities correct. Sounds very much like my kind of golf .... great fun on a great course delivering near-mortal blows to the opponent though the coup de grace, Kalen, is a bitter pill to swallow.

Many thanks for the entertainment,

Cheers Colin

I'm known for at least a couple of high handicapper/high frustration quotes at my home course.

"No good drive goes unpunished."

"The beloved triple bogey save."

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

You would be a freaking genius if you were right, but alas you are not.  I've also put up a couple of great scores at Indian Canyon where they have very undulating and bumpy greens.

Chambers Bay was easily my worst putting performance in years!!  Normally I'm good for one 3 jack per round..on a mediocre day 2 three jacks.  To have 5 in one round was just humiliating!!   

[Anthony Gray]

  Well "The War to Settle the Score" did not turn out well for Kalen but what a great read and a great course. There is always the next time and there is always Pebble Beach. Good going guys. Hope to make GM3.

  Anthony

[Jeff_Brauer]

George,

No need to read this thread. I have lived it!

But, in general, you are correct. Most gca's think so much in terms of designing for the better player, that they never really look at the routes taken by the class B, C, D, and F players.  The problem is, that if you did, you would end up with ANGC (original version) where you could play putter from tee to green.  You wouldn't build courses like CB that fit the site well, but are hell on average players.

Of course, there are room for all kinds of courses, with the ANGC model being about 80% of courses, and the CB mold 10% or less, and the true freeway golf, beginners courses another 10%.

[Kalen Braley]

And just to clarify, us high cappers don't mind facing a few ball buster holes here and there.  Its just when you get deluged with them that it becomes un-fun.

In that respect Chambers Bay was terrific, because while there were a few really tough holes like 7, 8, and 14....there were plenty of par opportunities to be found on the par 3s and the shorter par 4s.

Additionally what makes Chambers good too is there are a lot of "bite off as much as you dare" shots with diagonal angles.....which works for everyone!!

[Anthony Gray]

  What's next?

  Anthony

[Kalen Braley]

I'm thinking I want another crack at it...before I have to wait 2 more years. 

Hopefully we can get something setup next summer sometime.  Maybe even a return trip to Chambers Bay!

[Garland Bayley]

...  You wouldn't build courses like CB that fit the site well, but are hell on average players.
...

How is CB hell on average players? My 97 with 44 putts ended up in the low 10 scores of my handicapped posts. Had I putted 36 times, it would have been the lowest score I posted in the last 20. When CB opened, I couldn't miss a fairway from the tee. Now that they have narrowed it some for USGA events, I miss some.

CB is very easy on the average player compared to the last course I played before going there where I shot 107 on 6000 yards, because it was full of ponds, trees, and ball losing rough.

[Kalen Braley]

As another data point....My 98 ended up as the highest in my last 20 rounds played. 

However, I didn't think the course was too difficult.  I just hit far too many bad shots and missed way more putt that normal.

[RJ_Daley]

Kalen and Garland, what a pair to draw to... 

Thanks for sharing the fun you guys had on a great course and your spirited rivalry of high cappers. 

The great widespread hacker nation salutes you! 

[Bill_McBride]

Kalen and Garland, what a pair to draw to... 

Thanks for sharing the fun you guys had on a great course and your spirited rivalry of high cappers. 

The great widespread hacker nation salutes you! 

Dick, reminds me of our classic singles match at Longshadow and the 18th hole.   IIRC I was one up through 17 until your 7 won the 18th.   Damn that runoff behind the green!   

[Kalen Braley]

David,

I'm pretty sure Garland knows this, as I too explained it to him.

As I recall, he had 0 putts on 9, even thought he did use his putter to chip in for par.
And on 10, he was just short of the green with his approach and used his putter as well.

So that was 1 putt total on those two holes!

But I think a lot of high handicappers prefer the texas wedge.  Its usually a lot more forgiving that trying to chip where a whole multitude of things can go wrong like hitting it fat, thin, off the hozzle, too hard, etc!!

[Garland Bayley]

...  You wouldn't build courses like CB that fit the site well, but are hell on average players.
...

How is CB hell on average players? My 97 with 44 putts ended up in the low 10 scores of my handicapped posts. Had I putted 36 times, it would have been the lowest score I posted in the last 20. When CB opened, I couldn't miss a fairway from the tee. Now that they have narrowed it some for USGA events, I miss some.

CB is very easy on the average player compared to the last course I played before going there where I shot 107 on 6000 yards, because it was full of ponds, trees, and ball losing rough.

Garland,

Not to be a world class D-Bag, but were all 44 putts from the putting surface? Technically, a putt is only counted as a put when one's stroke is from the putting surface. I read a good deal of the thread and it did not seem as though you hit 9 or 10 GIR.

You don't have to hit a GIR to take a double bogey or worse with a 3 or 4 putt.
I had two 4 putts both starting from on the green leading to triple bogeys. My home course has been quite fast and firm. I did not adjust to slow fescue greens very quickly. If you want to be technical, I believe I had 42 putts. If you read my first quote of that statistic, I wrote I struck the ball with my putter 44 times. I may have gotten sloppy after that first statement and called it 44 putts.

[RJ_Daley]

Now Bill, at our age, in our flight, one has to expect the occasional surprising upsetting of the old applecart........   You did win 17 in spectacular fashion compared to my botched attempt from that cavern in front of an acre or so of green... So, technically, I guess I must have been up one going into that monster par 3 and you evened it up with the easy win, right?  I did feel the choke collar at that point of messing up on 17, and it is really  both fortunate and testament to my great matchplay skills that I "pulled it all together" to score that impressive 7 on the last.  Well, maybe fortunate more than skill....   And, they say one never wishes for ones opponent to play poorly.... so I'm glad you gave it all you had on that last! 

[Ryan Bass]

Enjoyed the pics and match.  Thanks guys.  Love the width of the holes with some tighter holes, between the dunes, sprinkled in.  Looking forward to 2015.

[Garland Bayley]

Since Kalen is hanging out here at least in the Open aftermath, and because Chambers Bay is a hot topic right now, I thought I would bump this.


If you read this you will find that Kalen and I putted horribly that day, which was due to our own stress, not the conditions of the course. If Kalen says otherwise, don't believe him.

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,
 
Interesting bump.  Putting has traditionally been the best part of my game.  That being said, there are two plausible reasons why my putting sucked that day.
1a)  I was playing a new course, and not just any new course.  The greens are tough to read on the 1st play and I got a handful of reads wrong, no doubt.
1b)  Some of the greens really were in poor condition.  I vividly recall putting thru bare patches on several occasions as well as seeing my ball bump all over the place.
 
Other than the conditions of the greens, I absolutely loved the course!!

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,
 
Interesting bump.  Putting has traditionally been the best part of my game.  That being said, there are two plausible reasons why my putting sucked that day.
1a)  I was playing a new course, and not just any new course.  The greens are tough to read on the 1st play and I got a handful of reads wrong, no doubt.
1b)  Some of the greens really were in poor condition.  I vividly recall putting thru bare patches on several occasions as well as seeing my ball bump all over the place.
 
Other than the conditions of the greens, I absolutely loved the course!!

Apologist! Your stroke was bad a Chambers Bay, not the greens.
Your stroke was excellent at Sagebrush.

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,
 
Interesting bump.  Putting has traditionally been the best part of my game.  That being said, there are two plausible reasons why my putting sucked that day.
1a)  I was playing a new course, and not just any new course.  The greens are tough to read on the 1st play and I got a handful of reads wrong, no doubt.
1b)  Some of the greens really were in poor condition.  I vividly recall putting thru bare patches on several occasions as well as seeing my ball bump all over the place.
 
Other than the conditions of the greens, I absolutely loved the course!!

Apologist! Your stroke was bad a Chambers Bay, not the greens.
Your stroke was excellent at Sagebrush.

And that's two data points....if you played with me all the time, you'd find that my putting is usually good 80% of the time, and 20% bad.  I re-read thru this entire post, and had forgotten all those 4-5 footers I missed.  If I had converted those at my usual rate of 80%....I would have likely won the event!!   

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,
 
Interesting bump.  Putting has traditionally been the best part of my game.  That being said, there are two plausible reasons why my putting sucked that day.
1a)  I was playing a new course, and not just any new course.  The greens are tough to read on the 1st play and I got a handful of reads wrong, no doubt.
1b)  Some of the greens really were in poor condition.  I vividly recall putting thru bare patches on several occasions as well as seeing my ball bump all over the place.
 
Other than the conditions of the greens, I absolutely loved the course!!

Apologist! Your stroke was bad a Chambers Bay, not the greens.
Your stroke was excellent at Sagebrush.

And that's two data points....if you played with me all the time, you'd find that my putting is usually good 80% of the time, and 20% bad.  I re-read thru this entire post, and had forgotten all those 4-5 footers I missed.  If I had converted those at my usual rate of 80%....I would have likely won the event!!   

Sorry, but if I had putted as well as I normally do, I would have buried you.

[Jason Topp]

Was there ever a grudge match 3?  It would be like the Ali-Frazier bouts.

[Garland Bayley]

Was there ever a grudge match 3?  It would be like the Ali-Frazier bouts.

There was a grudge match 3 at the Kings Putter at Sagebrush. I had developed severe arthritis in my hands that winter, and was not on my game and Kalen creamed me.


I have since stopped practicing golf in the winter.

[Pete_Pittock]

Was there ever a grudge match 3?  It would be like the Ali-Frazier bouts.

There was a grudge match 3 at the Kings Putter at Sagebrush. I had developed severe arthritis in my hands that winter, and was not on my game and Kalen creamed me.


I have since stopped practicing golf in the winter.

[/Beware the injured golfer?color]

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,
One must grudgingly concede, judging by the banter of Kalen and Garland over the last 24 hours, that another match is surely in the offing!.


I remember, as a novitiate to GCA, reading this battle of the Titans on this forum and being highly amused and entertained. I'd be happy to experience a re-run!


Cheers Colin