Upcoming W100 List - Who Gets Added....Who Gets Dropped

[Steve_Roths]

I believe we are about a month or so away from Golf Magazine's new World 100 list.  Given there has not been a lot of new courses opened in the last couple years will we see much change?  I have a feeling the following courses might appear:

Rock Creek Cattle Company
Lost Farm
Old Mac
Castle Stuart
Royal Hague
Kennemer

I am guessing that these might exit:
Royal Porthcawl
Cabo del Sol
Waterville
Oitavos Dunes
Tokyo

Any other guesses...

[Tom_Doak]

I doubt Rock Creek will make it this time.  Don't think any more panelists have seen it in the past two years.

Old Macdonald is more likely to get in.  Castle Stuart is also a likely contender.

What would be the impetus for Royal Hague or Kennemer?  They've been lurking down there at #125 for twenty years now, but they haven't hosted a big event or anything, so I don't know what would change their scores dramatically.

[Mac Plumart]

As much as it pains me, I think Harbour Town will fall.  Out of the Top 100, maybe not this time...but maybe next.

I think Scioto is in trouble for this list.

[Jim Hoak]

What does Golf Magazine have as a requirement for length of time in service?  I seem to recall that Golf Digest requires the course to be 2+ years old to be considered.  If this list were the same, Old Mac would not be eligible.

[Kevin Pallier]

The California Club should be in there

[Alex Lagowitz]

I have not played the Alotian club, but noticed that GD had it ranked 14th (I think) in the US. I would assume a course ranked that high would be included in the top 100 in the world, but a different magazine may see differently.  Since the rankings tend to be similar, it would surprise me if one had it top 20 and the other not at all.

[Steve_Roths]

Alex,

I will shave my head if Alotian cracks the W100.  Golf Digest is known for their fairly horrible rankings and Alotian being one of them. 

Just to show you the mind fuck that is Golf Digest's rankings:

Castle Pines
Victoria National
Rich Harvest
Double Eagle
Diamond Creek

These above five rank WELL ahead of the following:

Shoreacres
Maidstone
Somerset Hills
Ballyneal
Winged Foot East

How far ahead of these courses are they....these five are at the very end of the list.  But, Alotian is at 14. 

Golf Digest rankings are a complete joke. 

[Ron Csigo]

The California Club should be in there

Couldn't agree more Kevin.  It's the best golf course in San Francisco, IMHO.

[Carl Nichols]

The California Club should be in there

Couldn't agree more Kevin.  It's the best golf course in San Francisco, IMHO.

Wow. I thought Cal Club was really good, with some really great holes -- but also a couple of relatively pedestrian holes, such that I assumed SFGC, which I haven't played, had to be better. I'd also want to play Cal Club a few more times before agreeing that it's better than Olympic.

[Alex Lagowitz]

Alex,

I will shave my head if Alotian cracks the W100.  Golf Digest is known for their fairly horrible rankings and Alotian being one of them. 

Just to show you the mind fuck that is Golf Digest's rankings:

Castle Pines
Victoria National
Rich Harvest
Double Eagle
Diamond Creek

These above five rank WELL ahead of the following:

Shoreacres
Maidstone
Somerset Hills
Ballyneal
Winged Foot East

How far ahead of these courses are they....these five are at the very end of the list.  But, Alotian is at 14. 

Golf Digest rankings are a complete joke. 

I personally couldn't agree more with you, but the consistency appears to be that GD favors newer courses.  What tends to happen is when a new course comes out, if its somewhat good, it gets overhyped but eventually falls into its place.  We saw this with Harbour Town.  I am a classic course guy myself, so it hurts to see the newer, less interesting courses jumping them in the rankings

[John Handley]

It is hard to argue which course may be best between San Francisco GC, The Olympic Lake Course and the California Golf Club but one thing is for sure, the Cal Club should be in the Top 100.  All three are great golf courses and the more you play all of them the more you can appreciate the little subtleties of their greatness.  The biggest problem I see for the Cal Club is the fact that magazines such as GOLF and GOLF Digest have not done a proper job in getting raters to the golf course.  Golfweek has gotten it's raters to the golf course and you see what they have to say about the Cal Club.

It's a shame that these "industry leader" publications cannot do a more complete job is a disservice to their readership.  Rock Creek is certainly worthy of a top 100 rating too.

[Tom_Doak]

It is hard to argue which course may be best between San Francisco GC, The Olympic Lake Course and the California Golf Club but one thing is for sure, the Cal Club should be in the Top 100.  All three are great golf courses and the more you play all of them the more you can appreciate the little subtleties of their greatness.  The biggest problem I see for the Cal Club is the fact that magazines such as GOLF and GOLF Digest have not done a proper job in getting raters to the golf course.  Golfweek has gotten it's raters to the golf course and you see what they have to say about the Cal Club.

John:

In the GOLFWEEK rankings, The Cal Club was ranked 35th among U.S. classic courses [incidentally, well behind SFGC at #11 and Olympic at #23].  Once you factor in modern U.S. courses and other courses worldwide, that would make the course a marginal contender for the top 100 in the world ... which this thread was about.

The GOLFWEEK list has Cal Club [slightly] ahead of The Valley Club, Oak Hill East, Maidstone, and Yale, all of which have been on the GOLF Magazine top 100 in the world at some point.  However, they also have it behind Myopia Hunt Club, Plainfield, and Peachtree, which have only been at the bottom of the same list, or not on it at all.

To say the course ought to be in the top 100 in the U.S. is one thing; you'd probably find general agreement on that.  The top 100 in the world is a tougher nut to crack.

[Greg Tallman]

Certainly hoping one of those on you exit list proves be incorrect.

I would like to think the changes made to the ocean holes on the front nine were strong enough to give us (Cabo del Sol) a little boost. I will take a stab and say we'll be fortunate enough to jump up a bit on the list.   

I would also think that Diamante here in Cabo has a good shot to make the list. They certainly had their share of panel visits this past year.

I would also venture a guess that Castle Stuart may not cut the mustard as the reviews shared by some who vote were all over the map with a handful that have it nowhere near their top 100.

[David Kelly]

Top 100 in the World is pretty lofty for Cal Club.  I like it a lot but I think CPC, PB, LACC, Riv, Pasa & SFCC are better.  Does California really have 6 or 7 or 8 (Olympic?) of the top 100 courses in the  world?

[Jud_T]

I had a dream that Whistling Straits dropped 61 spots, the European Club was sent packing and Kingsley snuck on.  Gotta lay off the spicy barbecue after 6 PM....

[John Handley]

Tom-

You are correct.  I was thinking Top 100 in the U.S. not the World.  My mistake.

John

[Ron Csigo]

Top 100 in the World is pretty lofty for Cal Club.  I like it a lot but I think CPC, PB, LACC, Riv, Pasa & SFCC are better.  Does California really have 6 or 7 or 8 (Olympic?) of the top 100 courses in the  world?

With the exception of Pasatiempo, those 6 courses are consistently ranked in the World Top 100 lists.  Pasa and Cal Club would both get my vote to be there as well.

[Greg Tallman]

Safely In:
1. Old Mac
2. Diamante

Good Shot:
1. Bardougle Lost Farm
2. Sebonack
3. Castle Stuart
4. Bandon Trails

Long Shot:
1. Huntsman Springs
2. Kingsley
3. Rock Creek (based solely on Tom's comments)

[Anthony Gray]

  Castle Stuart and Diamante in.

  Anthony

[Steve_Roths]

How close is Boston Golf Club to the W100 list?  I have heard nothing but great reviews of the place.

[Adam Clayman]

Tom, How much influence, on the final list, are all the new editions to the panel? (panelists)

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, How much influence, on the final list, are all the new editions to the panel? (panelists)

Adam:

I have no idea how many panelists have been added or subtracted this time.

They do make a difference, but of course they make a lot more difference on the courses that don't have so many votes.  Most of the top courses have 40-50 votes, so getting someone new on the panel who hates one of them is not going to be noticed; but for the newer courses that only have 5-15 votes, those people will have an impact.

Likewise, if you take away all the votes from somebody like Tom Ramsey, who recently passed, a course like Newcastle probably has less chance of getting into the list than before.

[Ian Andrew]

This is not what I expect to happen - but rather what would happen if it were my choice....

My Five Out:

72 Royal Adelaide
75 Nanea
77 Chambers Bay
90 Spyglass Hill
91 Waterville

My Five I would add

Yale
Essex County (Mass.)
Enniscrone
Prestwick
Rock Creek

[Tom_Doak]

This is not what I expect to happen - but rather what would happen if it were my choice....

My Five Out:

72 Royal Adelaide
75 Nanea
77 Chambers Bay
90 Spyglass Hill
91 Waterville

My Five I would add

Yale
Essex County (Mass.)
Enniscrone
Prestwick
Rock Creek

Nope, that's not likely to wind up that way, since I don't think Essex County is even on the ballot of 600 courses!

But, it's nice to see someone post it in this form.  Ultimately, that's what it's about -- which courses do you think should be in, and which do you think should go? 

I'll assume that Ian has seen Nanea, instead of just giving it the boot sight unseen.

[Ian Andrew]

I don't think its fair to ever include or remove what you haven't seen.