[Joe_Tucholski]

After reading the recent Coeur D’Alene thread there was a statement that got me thinking about my perspective on golf courses.  The statement was “there is a big difference between enjoying playing a course and thinking it is a good one.” 

Changing the phrasing a little the statement is saying just because you enjoy playing a golf course does not mean it is a good golf course.  Do you agree with the statement or do you think if you enjoy playing a course it is therefore a good course?

Similarly would you agree that if you do not enjoy playing a course the course is not a good course?

I’m also interpreting the statement (maybe incorrectly) to mean playing the course not the experience.  We’ve all played poor courses with good friends and enjoyed ourselves and many have played great courses with bad caddies and left disappointed.

[John Kavanaugh]

Joe,

I can help you with this question but first need to know a bit about you.  Would you care to share?  What is it that you want from a course?  How does it compare to what you want from a life partner, your car or your shoes?  When is the last time you wore a sweater that was a gift?

[Joe_Tucholski]

John,

I was more looking to hear about other people’s perspectives to see how they compare to mine.  I also only see the first question you asked pertaining to the questions I asked but I have always thought your posts and analysis are interesting and often accurate so I’ll bite.

I want a course that allows me to forget about my day to day tasks, feels like I’m in a natural scenic setting, allows a good walk, provides an opportunity to score but also potentially imposes some high scores if I don’t execute a shot, and it should provide some difficult decisions on how to play a variety of shots.

Not sure I can compare what I want from my wife to what I want from a golf course other than I like a chance to score with both, I want my wife to challenge me at times and I want my wife forgiving when I mess up but with my wife I know what is OB and will avoid it.  What I want and have most from my wife is someone I enjoy and just want to be with…not sure how to go into details of what that means.  From my car I want it to be reliable, affordable and get me where I need to go without much concern (we have a Saturn and a Jeep).  My shoes I want to be comfortable first, functional second and then I want them to go with the clothes I wear.

[Tim Martin]

John,

I was more looking to hear about other people’s perspectives to see how they compare to mine.  I also only see the first question you asked pertaining to the questions I asked but I have always thought your posts and analysis are interesting and often accurate so I’ll bite.

I want a course that allows me to forget about my day to day tasks, feels like I’m in a natural scenic setting, allows a good walk, provides an opportunity to score but also potentially imposes some high scores if I don’t execute a shot, and it should provide some difficult decisions on how to play a variety of shots.

Not sure I can compare what I want from my wife to what I want from a golf course other than I like a chance to score with both, I want my wife to challenge me at times and I want my wife forgiving when I mess up but with my wife I know what is OB and will avoid it.  What I want and have most from my wife is someone I enjoy and just want to be with…not sure how to go into details of what that means.  From my car I want it to be reliable, affordable and get me where I need to go without much concern (we have a Saturn and a Jeep).  My shoes I want to be comfortable first, functional second and then I want them to go with the clothes I wear.

Joe-John is a curious sort and although you may have gone into more detail than necessary about your wife I`m sure he as well as everyone else is still on the edge of their seats about the sweater question. Is there a reason you chose not to answer the question or did you just forget?

[cary lichtenstein]

I always enjoyed a course that excited me by its topography, not it's flat subtle features nor its 4" rough.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Joe-John is a curious sort and although you may have gone into more detail than necessary about your wife I`m sure he as well as everyone else is still on the edge of their seats about the sweater question. Is there a reason you chose not to answer the question or did you just forget?

Tim
I typed my answer to the sweater question but when copying and pasting from word to check spelling I must have omitted it.  I can't remember the last time I was given a sweater as a gift and last wore my rotation of sweaters two years ago.  Not much opportunity for sweaters in LA.

Cary   
So do you not enjoy playing courses that are flat, have subtle features and 4" rough and therefore would you say courses with these features are not good?

[Tim Martin]

Joe-John is a curious sort and although you may have gone into more detail than necessary about your wife I`m sure he as well as everyone else is still on the edge of their seats about the sweater question. Is there a reason you chose not to answer the question or did you just forget?

Tim
I typed my answer to the sweater question but when copying and pasting from word to check spelling I must have omitted it.  I can't remember the last time I was given a sweater as a gift and last wore my rotation of sweaters two years ago.  Not much opportunity for sweaters in LA.

Cary   
So do you not enjoy playing courses that are flat, have subtle features and 4" rough and therefore would you say courses with these features are not good?

Joe-Thanks for a being a good sport as I was just messing with you. Welcome to the board.

[Mac Plumart]

I was once told that playing a good course doesn't necessarily mean you will have a good time.

[John Kavanaugh]

Joe,

You live in L.A. and don't have a pretentious bone in your body, wow, did you get a chance to play Rustic Canyon before, during or after it was a top 100? 

[Alex Lagowitz]

I would certainly describe Pine Valley as a good course, but a 25 handicap may not enjoy his round there

[John Kavanaugh]

I would certainly describe Pine Valley as a good course, but a 25 handicap may not enjoy his round there

Are you seriously going to tell me that some hack that regularly shoots 100 at home isn't going to enjoy shooting 110 at Pine Valley?  If they were that concerned with their score they would have quit when they could no longer break 90.

[Mark Saltzman]

I would enjoy playing most any course because I love to play golf.  That does not mean every course that I would enjoy playing is a good one (no matter how you choose to define the word "good".

[Brian Finn]

I would guess that for most contributors to this board, there would be a very high correlation between quality and enjoyment.  If you were to list your top 10 courses for quality of design, etc and lay them alongside your top 10 "most enjoyable" courses, they would likely have many common members.  Perhaps not in the exact same order, but probably at least 7 or 8 courses would overlap.  For me, there is a difference (albeit subtle) between "good" and "enjoyable" but I would have a difficult time defining the difference, other than by example or list.

[Alex Lagowitz]

I would certainly describe Pine Valley as a good course, but a 25 handicap may not enjoy his round there

Are you seriously going to tell me that some hack that regularly shoots 100 at home isn't going to enjoy shooting 110 at Pine Valley?  If they were that concerned with their score they would have quit when they could no longer break 90.

I am not sure if you have played Pine Valley before, but a 25 handicap would probably not shoot 110.  On a local muni course where the said player would find most of the sprayed balls, at Pine Valley, a sprayed ball is often unplayable or not findable.  The score could quickly add up and before you know it, the said player may be a little frustrated and not be enjoying the round.

Would I enjoy a round at Pine Valley?  Of course.  I am a scratch golfer and even if I shot 100 I would enjoy it, but my statement before said a 25 handicap MAY not enjoy his round there.  Sure some of them would, but if one 25 handicaper didnt enjoy his round there, this would refute the hypothesis that nonenjoyable rounds=bad course.

[JMEvensky]

I would enjoy playing most any course because I love to play golf.  That does not mean every course that I would enjoy playing is a good one (no matter how you choose to define the word "good".

Same here.

I'd rather play a bad course than just walk around/talk about a good one.

[Jed Peters]

Not at all.

Oly Club Lake would be a good example of this.

I don't enjoy playing there, but I think it's a good golf course (if not great).

I've enjoyed plenty of other golf courses, and had a great time on them, but I don't necessarily think they're good (or even great) courses.

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