Sandwich vs. Deal

[Mark Chaplin]

Sergio was good fun on Monday. Interestingly not only did Dustin Johnson take part but Darren Clarke turned up with Chubby Chandler for a few beers. Taylor Made have the dream of both players in the final group.

The second at RCP is a good example of subtle, the second shot is classic links a perfectly struck wedge pinched off the turf will stop but not many of us can do that. Therefore you are reading the contours of the land from 100-150 yards and working out in your head where to land the ball and how it will react on the ground. Misjudge it and you are likely to run through the back and have an extremely tough chip shot up the bank.

Scott - what is the difference between the drive on 2 at RStG and 9 at RCP? The ideal tee shot on 2 RStG is right, away from the bunkers to a flat boring piece of land leaving an approach on the ideal line. Maybe you didn't go right on your visits to RStG but the tee shot on 2 RStG is exactly the same as the one you criticise at 9 RCP.

[Mark Pearce]

I know Scott has hit the ball stiff from at least 50 yards left of the fairway on the 2nd at RSG, so perhaps he knows something we don't!

[Mark Chaplin]

Maybe he isn't aware the hole is more mundane than he thought, it is however very sporty from the hay on the left!!

[Kevin Pallier]

Whilst I like the green at # 1 at Deal - there's not enough in the drive for me to have it ahead of RSG. I'd probably have them square through 2.

[Kevin Pallier]

Surely Chappers was saying to Segio "lime green is better than canary yellow" ? 

[Mark Chaplin]

Rory just birdied the 2nd from Scott's hollow but the crowd had trampled the rough!

[Carl Johnson]

Carl,

The name of the clubs is Royal Cinque Ports Golf Club and it's located in the town of Deal. Calling the course "Deal" is like calling Royal St. Georges "Sandwich" because that's where it's at.

Thanks Brent.

[Scott Warren]

"Scott's hollow". I like it!

I'll have you know I hit that shot in a foursomes match - I didn't drive it over there myself!

[Mark Bourgeois]

Thanks, Sean. I know the fix is in, just trying to figure out how much.

Now carry on, Dealies, with the Deal Subtle Promotion Thread!  

Mark C, have the club considered a golf-orientated "Where's Waldo"-type book? If so, they may have a great Waldo already in their midst.

[Mark Chaplin]

Mark it's not just "Dealies", a selection of press from the week;

Michael Bamberger, senior writer, Sports Illustrated: RSG is a true links golf. It's outstanding in every way. The only thing that's better in southern England is the course next door, Royal Cinque Ports.


Speaking of Deal, they have a train station in legitimate walking distance of the Royal Cinque Ports clubhouse. Something to keep in mind as the London-to-Sandwich train experiment is working until spectators are dropped off at the course, reports the Mail on Sunday.

The Kent tourist board have been promoting the ‘excellent’  transport links between London and Sandwich for golf fans — especially the high-speed train service that slashes journey time by 55 minutes.

Unfortunately, it was also taking spectators nearly an hour to walk from the station to the course due to overcrowding on the narrow path and queues for entry.

Ted Bishop V-P US PGA on playing Deal on Wednesday morning;

“As you tee up in front of the Clubhouse, you are about to follow in the footsteps of champions. You will have the opportunity to challenge your control of the golf ball from elevated tees exposed to the sea winds.

Beyond the large rolling fairways, expanses of tight firm seaside turf which are dry and firm underfoot all year round. Beware, however, the cavernous bunkers, which were originally nature’s shelters for grazing sheep but now capture wayward shots. Beware too of the deep contoured swales in the fairways.

Finally, you reach the hallowed greens, truly nature’s dance floor. “

Bill Dwyre Los Angeles Times; http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dwyre-british-open-20110712,0,3244666.column

[Michael Whitaker]

"Speaking of Deal, they have a train station in legitimate walking distance of the Royal Cinque Ports clubhouse."

I've never thought of walking to the course, but it is reasonably doable... only 30 minutes or so.

[Mark Chaplin]

It's 25 I often do it when I haven't got the  push bike. If you walk to the beach turn left and walk all the way to the end of the road you just cross 2nd fairway and around the back of the 18th green, pleasant walk on a nice day.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Mark, Bamberger hasn't been signed up? You're slipping.

[Mark Chaplin]

Michael they haven't taken the wind into consideration that's why it's 25 mins!  

Mark - I'm not alone add Disher, Whitaker, Jones, Muldoon, Freeman, Keil, Sheehy, Will Smith, Moore, Pennell, Woodger, Techner, Boyd & Warren and a few more GCA'ers to boot.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I respectfully do not see these courses as comparable. I think both are great and deserve the love they get. I feel the same about Rye which to me is #2 in SE England with Deal #3 behind Sandwich. Sandwich is a big championship course which Deal is not.

[Mark Chaplin]

Tiger I totally agree that RCP isn't a big championship course however that doesn't mean they cannot be compared. Some guys prefer large breasts and others small but well formed, it is still possible to compare their merits.

As for Rye it is a very fine club playing over a very special course, some people love it and for others it's a little too quirky. Also they never allow 3 or 4 ball and I know you are not a fan of foursomes.

[Noel Freeman]

I respectfully do not see these courses as comparable. I think both are great and deserve the love they get. I feel the same about Rye which to me is #2 in SE England with Deal #3 behind Sandwich. Sandwich is a big championship course which Deal is not.

Tiger, I see the word respectfully and so please realize I say this with respect, your comment is nonsensical-with pure upfrontness I'm the Original Dealie (TM) here.  Sure, Sandwich is BIG with acreage but TOC is plenty thin just like Deal and I think people would call it a big championship course.  In fact when it comes to the routings, I believe Deal is the MOST like TOC of any links out there especially when you call into play the similarities of the 1st hole.  Deal was a championship course until 1949 when it lost the rota and hosts the BIGGEST most important AMATEUR event in the UK outside of the Amateur--The Halford Hewitt, and it defends itself just fine.  I'd prefer an intricate, fair yet quirky course with terrific greens rather than an expansive, capricious beast that lacks texture and nuance.  And this from someone who has played Sandwich 6x to 75x at Deal.

Also, Deal if it got the Open could put a TEMPORARY Rail station right behind the club and people could walk thru a farm where the club could put a tented village right up to the clubhouse and first tee. IT is perfect. Think outside the box.  DEAL IS A GREAT VENUE if people could get over the stiff upper lip and inertia.  But fine, don't go to Deal, I'm upset it has been publicized here after all there were not so many Dealies when I joined GCA at the get go, so don't go, the course stinks, stay away!!!

Chappers I'm there this tuesday if you are around..mid-day..  Will do seawall tee pix.

[Sean_A]

"hosts the BIGGEST most important AMATEUR event in the UK outside of the Amateur--The Halford Hewitt"

Tuco - what bollocks is this?  The HH is important for the deck chair port crowd, but not for the best amateurs in the country.  I would be surprised if it is even on the radar for Walker Cup qualification.

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean - the Hewitt is/was believed to be the biggest annual Amateur event in the world with 640 competitors. It is important to the selectors as a good percentage of them take part!!

Noel - sadly I'm working nights this week.

[Mark Pearce]

At last!  After weeks of finding things to disagree about I am completely in agreement with Sean.  Noel, I know you love Deal but that statement about the Halford Hewitt is just utter nonsense.  Chappers, you're a smart guy and a fantastic advocate for Deal but "the most important amateur event outside the amateur"?  Good effort trying to defend that nonsense but perhaps better not to try.  It may be big, I'm sure it's fun but important?   Who to?

[Noel Freeman]

Okay, critique me.. What other event is bigger than that (other than the Amateur) that brings so many great club players around.  Most of the low markers there are some of the best Amateurs in GBI b/c they played for Oxford or Cambridge. Besides, I can quote Frank Pennick or Darwin if you want on the importance of the HH.

What about my other points? on trains etc

[Noel Freeman]

Come April the thoughts of most of Britain's 3 million golfers will turn to The Masters at Augusta National. It is one of the world's most prestigious events with a TV audience which is numbered in millions but it is still something of a sideshow as far as one group of committed golfers is concerned.

As far as the 640 golfers who compete in the annual Halford Hewitt tournament at Royal Cinque Ports and Royal St George's are concerned, the Halford Hewitt is altogether more meaningful than The Masters. Watching The Masters on TV might be a welcome interlude after dinner with one's teammates but, during daylight hours, it is an irrelevance when pitted against the much more important task of winning matches for one's school.

The Halford Hewitt - or Hewitt as it is called - is considered to be something rather special by all those former public school boys fortunate enough to have represented their old schools team in this match play foursomes tournament. Each year, potential competitors sweat it out for months on end until a letter arrives to tell them that their Captain has selected them for his 10 man side. Most treat omission from the side as something akin to a disaster but, even if not selected, many will still make the pilgrimage to this corner of Kent in order to lend their support to their side and to pontificate with colleagues about triumphs old and new.

A total of 640 competitors start out Hewitt week but that sizeable number is swelled by the considerable cadre of supporters who come from far and wide to witness the spectacle. Virtually all the hotels and hostelries in the area are booked up a year in advance as each team guards its precious home for the week. It represents a financial bonanza for all the local hotel owners and a boon for the breweries whose production capacity is tested to the limit.

The tournament is enormous fun but it is also serious sport and never more so than when a match is tied and one unfortunate pair from each side has to go down the dreaded 19th. Royal Cinque Ports - or Deal as it is called more often - is the Hewitt's spiritual home and it has a 1st hole which is ideal for such deciders. There is something utterly compelling about watching from the clubhouse balcony as two hapless pairs battle it out to remain in bounds from the tee and then clear the burn in front of the green. It is even more tremulous to be involved in such a finale to a match and knowing that one small slip can mean the end for your side.

Golfers only have to witness a Hewitt match go into extra time to realise just how special the tournament is. It is no coincidence that the last side to drop out of the tournament was Beaumont back in 1968 (they amalgamated with another school) and no surprise either that the waiting list to get in to the event is as long as your arm. The simple fact of the matter is that the Hewitt elicits more emotion than any other tournament I know, with the possible exception of the Ryder Cup and Walker Cup. It is a tournament which brings together more true amateurs than any other and then scares the life out of them all. It is a celebration of how golf once was and a reminder how pure it still can be. It's unique. Forget The Masters. The Hewitt is the true Rite of Spring.

Colin Callander is the Editor of Golf Monthly and a regular member of the Fettes side at the Halford Hewitt.

[Mark Pearce]

Noel, stop digging.  It's a competition for posh public school kids.  It represents a lot of what makes golf a hard sell to the majority of the population.  It isn't open, it's based on privilege and it matters not to the vast majority of golfers.  More people run in the Great North Run than the Olympic marathon.  That doesn't make the GNR a more important and bigger event.

I'm sure it's great fun and there's some really good golf played.  That doesn't make it matter.  And quoting an ex-Fettesian doesn't help persuade me, even though my wife went to Fettes.

[Scott Warren]

The Hewitt? We're hosting the bloody British Amateur in 2013.

[Noel Freeman]

Peter McEvoy is one of the GREATEST amateurs the UK produced and a Walker Cup Captain to boot..

"Peter McEvoy once said in an interview that the only thing he regretted in his golfing career was not going to a school that entitled him to play in the Halford Hewitt."

Now you could argue that either way, but I met Peter McEvoy and if ever there was a person who could talk more about amateur golf in GBI, it is him..

The Brabazon is probably the 2nd best amateur event in England and considering in 2002 Deal held it and Charl Schwartzel won it, not too shabby.

I am not a hearty english public school boy Mark, far from it and I'm not digging but that is a ton of amateurs to school in one place (remember it co-hosts with Sandwich as well) and I'm sure a ton of Walker Cuppers have played there and have from the stories I know.

With 640 people competing, no one can question it is the biggest amateur event, but the meaning is debatable and I mean this in good fun even if Sean Arble is an evil man.

Arbs-- any bid to join me at Wallasey Friday late PM this week?  I