Sandwich vs. Deal

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean - about 18 months ago I wrote about plans to strengthen the bunkerIng at Deal and your strongly objected, now you think the bunkering is the weakest point. What do you propose?  

The cross bunkering on 13 is older than us and there for the second shot not the drive. Modern equipment make then reachable with a favourable wind in the summer. No way are they reachable in the winter with no roll, except for the odd ape.

[Noel Freeman]

Sean - about 18 months ago I wrote about plans to strengthen the bunkerIng at Deal and your strongly objected, now you think the bunkering is the weakest point. What do you propose?  

The cross bunkering on 13 is older than us and there for the second shot not the drive. Modern equipment make then reachable with a favourable wind in the summer. No way are they reachable in the winter with no roll, except for the odd ape.

Chappers, I played there with DD and using one of Andrew's old Persimmon drivers (he lent to me) and I will swear to you (it was February) I knocked it in there (as well as on #17) into a strong northerly.. Shocking, ground was near frozen).

I appreciate you calling me an ape! Although some of the guys at the bar we had coffee at last month resembled one!

[JNC Lyon]

Okay, Sean, but what's wrong with the bunker scheme on 14?  I think the bunkering there is very solid.  Since the wind blows from right to left most of the time, players will have to aim at the bunkers and hope the wind will bring the ball back on the green.  Of course, there is about 100 yards of room to the left, so the player can avoid these bunkers without a problem.  But if a player wants to assure a three and have a chance at a 2, he will have to draw one off the right bunkers into the green.

[Sean_A]

Sean - about 18 months ago I wrote about plans to strengthen the bunkerIng at Deal and your strongly objected, now you think the bunkering is the weakest point. What do you propose?  

The cross bunkering on 13 is older than us and there for the second shot not the drive. Modern equipment make then reachable with a favourable wind in the summer. No way are they reachable in the winter with no roll, except for the odd ape.

I think I was more interested in strategic bunkering rather than strengthening bunkering.  We had this conversation before.  You fell on the side of Deal having higher championship aspirations and thus the need for more aggressive bunkering.

JNC

I would rather the bunkering on #14 be to the left of the hole and one long right.  I certainly wouldn't have a bunker guarding mid green on the right as now as I believe the wind demands more space on this side.  Furthermore, its a long shot with a right cross wind.  That shot is faced several times on the back nine and I fail to see the need for another.

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

The first at Deal is being lengthened by 30-40 yards, the second has a new tee for last years Amateur at 430yds, the fifth has a new tee at 602yds, the twelfth is getting a few more yards, thirteen another 40yds so NAF will not be driving into the cross bunkers!! Fifteen is going up to circa 470yds and 16 is being shortened to 497 par 4 and 420 off the member tees.

The old girl will have a little more bite. Sixteen is my only issue as it's a world class short par 5 green not a long par 4 green, not everyone agrees with me though!!

[Scott Warren]

Why?

[hhuffines]

Are they adding any more fairway on the right side of #1?  Not sure I like the change to 16...

[Mark Chaplin]

Hart - IMHO 16 has too much slope to be a fair long par 4 green, attacking a par 5 you accept a little sport but not on a 4 when a long iron/wood could hit a hard downslope and go straight over the green. RCP's strongest shot is the third to 16. The opposite on 1, I think the fairway is being taken a few yards left.

Scott - I guess 3 years of LFQ. It doesn't really affect the members and tees are cheap to build and maintain.

[Brent Hutto]

So next time I'm there, do I have to tee off from 30 yards farther back on #1. If so I'll just write down double bogey and save myself a ball or two. If the rough don't get me, the burn on the second shot (or third or fourth) will.

Wouldn't you know, after I finally have a couple of halfway decent rounds they'll go and toughen up the course!

[Mark Chaplin]

Brent I was playing with a member the other day who said the course was being made too tough. I asked how many times he'd played off the 2nd or 18th back tees........none. It really doesn't affect the average member.

[Bill_McBride]

Mark, is it daft to note that any change to the wondrous 16th at Deal should result in death by an unpleasant means for the proposer, seconder and anyone who vote affirmatively?   The other changes are just the usual, adding length.  The change to 16 - making it a par 4 - destroys the inherent strategy of that great hole, one of my favorite par 5s in golf.  

[Noel Freeman]

Hart - IMHO 16 has too much slope to be a fair long par 4 green, attacking a par 5 you accept a little sport but not on a 4 when a long iron/wood could hit a hard downslope and go straight over the green. RCP's strongest shot is the third to 16. The opposite on 1, I think the fairway is being taken a few yards left.

Scott - I guess 3 years of LFQ. It doesn't really affect the members and tees are cheap to build and maintain.

Chappers, I don't understand the decision on 16.. If they wanted they could put the tee over the road on #12 and make that a par 5 as well.  I'd rather they play #3 as a long par 4 at 520 downwind then #16 as a 4-- thus changing 12 to a par 5 which makes it more fair since it is a harsh par 4.  #16 should never be changed, ever.

And I can still drive into the cross bunkers on 13 with a hearty NORTHERLY.. Well maybe not!

I like the change to #1 for tournament play.. if there was an open surely the tee would be back even further.. But into the wind that is a tough opener when you now have 6iron or 7 iron rather than wedge for the low markers..

Hopefully I will be making an appearance in late Feb or March.

[JNC Lyon]

I have to join the fray on 16.  It's a phenomenal par five--probably one of the two or three best I played in the UK.  Downwind, the green is unlikely to hold a full pitching wedge.  I remember playing it one day when I was there in 2010.  I absolutely crushed a drive downwind, and I had an 8-iron in my hand for the second shot.  All I could think was "how is it humanly possible to hold this shot on the green?"  I got away nicely with my 5.  Making it a four takes away the decision-making aspect on the second shot, and my favorite feature, "the Valley of Inglorious Security," becomes much less of a factor.