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Garland Bayley

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2011, 10:12:20 AM »
2014 at Pinehurst.
I think its fair to say there is an identity crisis with the LPGA currently.
The back to back mens and womens opens at Pinehurst offers, imo, the chance for increased media exposure, compared to the "regular" open at a entirely different site. Perhaps this is a make it or break it event for the LPGA.

Yes, but where are they in 2013?
;)


Sebonack Golf Club.

You going to see that one Bill? I am hoping to make it. I'm hoping you can get some good views of the neighbors from there.

Who says they aren't playing high profile courses the men can't play anymore? In Portland, they play the highest profile courses every year.
Currently one that was created just before the distance explosion, thereby causing it to drop off the USGA radar as a men's venue.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2011, 10:19:19 AM »

I still think the LPGA has an Asian problem with US TV audiences.


I am sorry but that comment is racist at least.  The US audience has a problem with ugly no matter what the race.  Michelle and Stephanie Wie (ei) today and Grace Park of years go by prove that our fine country could care less what the race is of a beautiful woman.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:25:54 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Kalen Braley

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2011, 10:27:44 AM »
My "issue" with the LPGA is the same issue as the WNBA....its just not a compelling product to watch.

As a qualifier to that, I don't think college golf, Nationwide, or even the Champions Tour is a compelling product either.  For me its pretty much the PGA Tour with the occasional "reality TV" Big Break sprinkled in.

That being said, I really like Bryan's idea...if they could play more epic venues like CPC, NGLA, etc, that are deemed too short for the men, I would certainly tune in more.

Terry Lavin

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2011, 10:39:40 AM »
I enjoy watching the LPGA from time to time for one simple reason: they have swings that I can at least con myself into believing that I can replicate.  The swing speed is lower, the athleticism isn't as intimidating and the ball doesn't outright disappear from view when struck.  The typical tour stop is hard to watch for more than an hour or so, however, because there aren't that many compelling personalities out there these days.  As for the Women's Open, this year's event was beset by bad weather, necessitating a lot of breaks in play that made it hard to follow on television, but the bigger problem in my mind is that it is really, really boring to watch women struggle on a USGA setup.  It's hard enough to watch the men suffer at a typical US Open, but it's even less compelling television when the women are doing it. 

As for the players themselves, there are a lot of good players, and they do have one dominant player these days.  One can't help but be impressed by Yani Tseng, but the rest of the Parks and Kims get sort of jumbled in my mind and I don't watch enough women's golf to tell you whether Cindy LaCrosse is going to have a breakout year.  Bottom line, I'd be surprised if the LPGA is in better shape in five years, which would be a shame.  I'd like to see it go in the other direction, but that seems unlikely.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Garland Bayley

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2011, 10:42:12 AM »
My "issue" with the LPGA is the same issue as the WNBA....its just not a compelling product to watch.

As a qualifier to that, I don't think college golf, Nationwide, or even the Champions Tour is a compelling product either.  For me its pretty much the PGA Tour with the occasional "reality TV" Big Break sprinkled in.

That being said, I really like Bryan's idea...if they could play more epic venues like CPC, NGLA, etc, that are deemed too short for the men, I would certainly tune in more.

While you were waiting for CPC, and NGLA, you missed
Prairie Dunes, Orchards, Newport CC, and Saucon Valley. If you missed Newport, you really missed something.

You'd watch the men at Cherry Hills, and Oakmont, so why not the women.

Don't blink in a couple of years or you will miss Sebonack.

I don't get how the LPGA is not that compelling a product to watch. They all play eons better than you. Sporting events are dramatic events. All you have to do is allign yourself with the characters and they are compelling to watch. If you have kids in little league, their games are compelling to watch.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2011, 10:43:26 AM »
Terry,

I think you have a pretty good handle on it.  Not to put you on the spot, but what 5 things would you do specifically to make things improve and actually have reason to tune in?

I can think of only 2, (only 1 real one)

1)  Play on epic/awesome venues
2)  Make em play in bikinis...ok just the hot ones!  ;)

Terry Lavin

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2011, 11:08:13 AM »
I'm not qualified to render any sort of recommendations to the LPGA.  Annika's premature retirement really hurt.  So did Bivens and the horrific mishandling of the "Korean Problem".  The best thing to happen to the LPGA would be the re-emergence of Michelle Wie and a titanic several seasons-long duel with Tseng.  They need more compelling, consistent drama on the leaderboard, rather than what we've been seeing the past three seasons or so.

Last point, I'm not a big LPGA fan, but I will say without hesitation that the Solheim Cup at Rich Harvest Links was the single best golf spectator event I've ever been to, better than a PGA Tour event, better than a US Open, better than a Ryder Cup here or abroad.  Simply magical and that is despite the fact that I really don't like the golf course at all.  The women players were spectacular teammates and the cheering/singing from the grandstands was absolutely riveting.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Charlie Goerges

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2011, 11:18:55 AM »
If you require a "good looking" LPGA in order to watch, then you don't really give a rip about the golf. That's pretty damn sexist. Does anybody give a toss what the men look like?

Tim M. I'll give Mike credit for not pulling any punches, even if his was a big fat whiff.


To be completely sexist and ridiculous myself, wasn't the LPGA's future much more secure and brighter back when it could count on the lesbian demographic?
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

George Pazin

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2011, 11:40:41 AM »
Last point, I'm not a big LPGA fan, but I will say without hesitation that the Solheim Cup at Rich Harvest Links was the single best golf spectator event I've ever been to, better than a PGA Tour event, better than a US Open, better than a Ryder Cup here or abroad.  Simply magical and that is despite the fact that I really don't like the golf course at all.  The women players were spectacular teammates and the cheering/singing from the grandstands was absolutely riveting.

And yet, if memory serves, more than a few on here saw fit to criticize or complain. Sad.

Don't much know what the LPGA can do. It's a really competitive world out there, and week in and week out, it just doesn't hold my interest. And I really like golf and women! Tough job for someone.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2011, 02:02:27 PM »
The loss of Lorena Ochoa hasn't helped either. The occasional wins by Kerr & Creamer help.They have charisma. Lest we forget that Stacy Lewis just won a major. I think American TV audiences liked Sorenstam & Ochoa dominating. Now, as Judge Lavin wrote above:


As for the players themselves, there are a lot of good players, and they do have one dominant player these days.  One can't help but be impressed by Yani Tseng, but the rest of the Parks and Kims get sort of jumbled in my mind and I don't watch enough women's golf to tell you whether Cindy LaCrosse is going to have a breakout year.

Morgan Pressel lost an Open a few years on a holed bunker shot on the 18th hole to someone who has never won since. The big names can't win all the time just like on the PGAT. Look at all the pre tourney hype about Tseng.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Phil McDade

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2011, 02:11:22 PM »
Last point, I'm not a big LPGA fan, but I will say without hesitation that the Solheim Cup at Rich Harvest Links was the single best golf spectator event I've ever been to, better than a PGA Tour event, better than a US Open, better than a Ryder Cup here or abroad.  Simply magical and that is despite the fact that I really don't like the golf course at all.  The women players were spectacular teammates and the cheering/singing from the grandstands was absolutely riveting.

And yet, if memory serves, more than a few on here saw fit to criticize or complain. Sad.


Not me!
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41143.0.html

Kalen Braley

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2011, 02:12:42 PM »
If you require a "good looking" LPGA in order to watch, then you don't really give a rip about the golf. That's pretty damn sexist. Does anybody give a toss what the men look like?

Tim M. I'll give Mike credit for not pulling any punches, even if his was a big fat whiff.


To be completely sexist and ridiculous myself, wasn't the LPGA's future much more secure and brighter back when it could count on the lesbian demographic?

Charlie,

If I prefer to marry a woman who is good looking over one who isn't good looking does that make me sexist?   ;)  Any therapist worth their salt will tell you an essential component to a long lasting and fulfilling marriage is there must be physical attraction to your partner.

The point is, the LPGA must be compelling to a base where the majority of its potential viewers are indeed male.  I watch womens tennis from time to time, do you think its purely coincidental that there are several good looking gals out there playing?  Ditto for womens soccer.

P.S.  The men are held to a different standard because they do amazing things with club and ball that are almost otherwordly.  When Tiger is hitting a 2 iron out of the rough from 260 yards and he bends it around a tree and sticks it 10 feet from the pin...of course every guy is thinking what Ernie said at Firestone: "Fuck me!".  Can't say I ever see the ladies pulling off those kinds of shots...or anything even close to that.  Watching the ladies play is like watching a boys Junior College event in terms of quality of shots...and I can't say I can ever recollect seeing a JC event on TV, much less a D1 event.

Tim Martin

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2011, 02:17:07 PM »
The women's open needs 2 things. First and most importantly, a superstar. She doesn't have to be an American, just have looks and some kind of personality. I know it sounds sexist, but if an Anna Kournikova look a like came along and won at an Annika/Tiger pace, she could be bigger than anyone on the mens tour. Second, and more important to us at gca, why not put the US open at some of the courses the men couldn't use (for different reasons), ie. Cypress, Pine Valley, Seminole, Chicago etc. I know with some of those choices, you would lose revenue because of the size and restrictions of the venue, but the wow factor might make up for it. I don't know if it's feasible, but it would have more of my attention than any mens tournament.

Bryan-I like the courses you mentioned as venues for the Women`s Open but I don`t think they(members) have any interest in that type of commitment. You may see a Curtis Cup,U S Amateur, Walker Cup, U.S. Junior but not an Open. These courses don`t need the cache or the money.  

Phil McDade

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2011, 02:20:23 PM »
The point is, the LPGA must be compelling to a base where the majority of its potential viewers are indeed male.  I watch womens tennis from time to time, do you think its purely coincidental that there are several good looking gals out there playing?  Ditto for womens soccer.

I'll leave it others to judge the looks of Abby Wambach. I'll tell you this, though -- I am afraid of her. No wonder she's nicknamed "The Beast."


Tim Martin

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2011, 02:30:04 PM »
The point is, the LPGA must be compelling to a base where the majority of its potential viewers are indeed male.  I watch womens tennis from time to time, do you think its purely coincidental that there are several good looking gals out there playing?  Ditto for womens soccer.

I'll leave it others to judge the looks of Abby Wambach. I'll tell you this, though -- I am afraid of her. No wonder she's nicknamed "The Beast."



Now that this has morphed into an entirely sexist thread I always thought Laura Diaz was very easy on the eyes. :)

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2011, 02:39:16 PM »
The point is, the LPGA must be compelling to a base where the majority of its potential viewers are indeed male.  I watch womens tennis from time to time, do you think its purely coincidental that there are several good looking gals out there playing?  Ditto for womens soccer.

I'll leave it others to judge the looks of Abby Wambach. I'll tell you this, though -- I am afraid of her. No wonder she's nicknamed "The Beast."


Its just when she's got her game face on that others can see the beast come out.  But away from the field, I'm sure she's as gentle as a kitten.  ;)

P.S.  She cleans up pretty well!




John Kavanaugh

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2011, 02:44:04 PM »

Does anybody give a toss what the men look like?



Yes.  I love Sumo but it just can't get the ratings.  I can think of no other reason than the cellulite ass shots.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2011, 02:54:21 PM »
The point is, the LPGA must be compelling to a base where the majority of its potential viewers are indeed male.  I watch womens tennis from time to time, do you think its purely coincidental that there are several good looking gals out there playing?  Ditto for womens soccer.

I'll leave it others to judge the looks of Abby Wambach. I'll tell you this, though -- I am afraid of her. No wonder she's nicknamed "The Beast."


Its just when she's got her game face on that others can see the beast come out.  But away from the field, I'm sure she's as gentle as a kitten.  ;)

P.S.  She cleans up pretty well!





Is it me or is she a dead ringer for Martina Navratilova?

Paul OConnor

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2011, 02:54:33 PM »
 Worth a look.  Plenty of different flavors to choose from.

http://golf-babes.blogspot.com/



Paul OConnor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2011, 02:57:34 PM »
From the Golf Babes website.  Maybe not the girl for the GCA crowd!!!

Jenny Suh Doesn't Date Scumbags (Anymore)
There's a "Quick 18" up on LPGA.com with Jenny Suh in which this exchange takes place:


5. What is one thing you have done and would never want to do again?
Dating scumbags.


Given that some studies show as much as 89-percent of young, single men are, in fact, scumbags, this policy must greatly reduce Jenny's dating pool!

Kalen Braley

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2011, 03:15:22 PM »

Does anybody give a toss what the men look like?



Yes.  I love Sumo but it just can't get the ratings.  I can think of no other reason than the cellulite ass shots.

John,

I don't think that's the problem.  I love Sumo too, but the real issue is too many cultured folks in the USA would much rather watch Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, The Rock, etc, etc smash chairs and tables on each other and otherwise play grabazz in scripted "wrestling" matches.

For real fighting, I tune into UFC for real MMA action.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2011, 03:21:27 PM »
My reason to loose track of this year's US Women's Open was timing, weather delays, lack of familiarity with many of those in contention, and too much other stuff to do.  I hurried home to watch what I was most interested in, Stricker's attempt to 3-peat.  

It seems to me that the LPGA needs to find a way to make these players more familiar to us in a sympathetic way.  Or, find a way to make us feel an attachment/familiarity to the foreign ladies, even if it means make them the rival nemisis of a spirited competitive manner (for the right reasons, not jingoism).  The talent is there, IMHO.  The venues could be selected better, I think.  Timing is important and I don't know exactly how you time it to not compete with other interesting stuff, either for the TV audience or locals to show up in numbers to spectate.  

I was wondering if the apparent notion that the Solheim cup seems to be more enthusiastically embraced, means they ought to find more opportunities to play team match play events.  You could have Asians VS Americas VS Euro.  Or, some arbitrary team by city or region, that would have matches at certain off weeks of the year that aren't filled on the schedule now.  If some of the unknown foreign ladies, particularly the Asians that we don't currently know, were mixed on some other regional identity team you might follow, that might go some way to help with the attachment/familiarity to the fan that the LPGA seems to need.  I just don't think it is a lack of talent.  

The ladies have to cooperate, if they are going to market their product, like it or not.  They have to make themselves available for publicity, and mind their public image, as reluctant as some may be to buy-in to marketting their show.

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2011, 03:25:53 PM »


Yes.  I love Sumo but it just can't get the ratings.  I can think of no other reason than the cellulite ass shots.


The only way this thread could possibly get further derailed is if someone opines that CBM had Sumo wrestlers help him design Merion.Someone is probably checking the ship manifests to/from Tokyo now.

Bruce Wellmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2011, 03:44:19 PM »
Any thread on the LPGA without the mere mention of the words "Natalie Gulbis" would be sacrilege.

Carl Rogers

Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2011, 04:33:54 PM »
ok there is some interest ....

I think the women's game is interesting because:
- they can not dominate the course, because of length and (often not noticed) height of their game's geometry
thus:
- a greater segment of the male golfing population can more easily relate to their game and how they should play the course
- more of the GCA elements come into play

A negative is the pace of play .... usually awful

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