Amateur Tournament Golf

[Mike_Young]

I have always had great respect for amateur golf and the great players the have evolved from such or have maintained distinguished careers in amateur golf.  Ga is having it's state am this week.  We always have the college guys and usually a new crop comes in and starts to work its way up each year and then we have the guys that have always been career amateurs and will place in the top 20 or so each year.  All of this is to be commended but I often wonder just how good many of these players are.  The guys with no jobs and the means to practice and play each day will always be near the top.  The college guy might have won one year and then gets into the workforce and comes back each year with a little less "game" each year .  All of this brings me to the question.  Is amateur golf similar to being stuck in class B baseball?  The guys that win after college careers rarely can make it in the pro ranks and the amateurs that can consistently play amateur golf after college rarely have jobs or play other sports.  IMHO the few guys I see that spend their entire day and year practicing for a few amateur tournaments and have the good fortune to not have to work and can play golf everyday are a frustrated breed.  Think about it.  You have every opportunity to take the game to the highest level and you spend a lifetime in golf finishing in the top 20 of your state tourney.  Why do people do it?

[Jason Topp]

They aren't good enough to take it to the highest level but enjoy the competition. Two profiles - wealthy and scraping by. I admire both.
 

[Will Peterson]

Mike - I have heard nearly those exact comments from almost every girl I have dated.  If you're not going to make any money, why continue to do it?

I try to play 8-12 events a year.  Some years I play a lot of qualifiers and get nothing and others I qualify so I play fewer events because more days are involved.  I got away from competitive golf in my early 20's, but rediscovered it while studying for my Masters in London.  My visa limited the amount I could work during term, so I started playing events again.  I don't know how I stayed away.

I play for three reasons (in no particular order):

1.  Access - You get to play great courses under tournament setups.  This year alone I will play Doral - Blue Monster, Black Diamond Ranch, Milwaukee Country Club and hopefully a few more if I can play decent in the coming months.  Many of the courses are private or expensive, and tournament entry fees are reasonable.  For example, I qualified for the FL Am ($100 for qualifier and $125 after qualifying) and made the cut.  I got three rounds at Doral - Blue Monster and one at the McLean course in the tournament plus a practice round at each for $25 apiece, those rounds alone would have cost nearly $1000 in the off season.  Milwaukee Country Club is one of my favorite courses, but is nearly impossible to access.  I paid $125 for the US Am qualifier, and will get three rounds there (36 in the tournament and a practice round).  Compared to my friends who play mini tours (some of them are making money) I play much better courses.

2.  Competition - There is nothing like competitive golf.  I regularly play with a group of professional golfers (PGA Tour, LPGA, and mini-tours), and there are always bets.  Those rounds do not compare to playing in a tournament.  It's an experience that you cannot create with your regular group.  It's stressful, full of pressure, exciting, terrifying, rewarding, and so much more all rolled together.  Plus most State Golf Associations really put on great events.  There aren’t ropes and galleries, but they really take care of the players.  Tournaments are just so much different than just playing a course on a regular day.  I have as many great experiences as I do terrible ones, but I keep coming back.  There is just something about playing against the best around.  I know that I will never make a living playing golf, but I can still play a bit.  For those who are under the 1-2 handicap range, it’s tough to find people to compete with.  I played in a bunch of friendly events at my club in London, and more often than not I was giving double digit shots.  I had a great time with some great people, but competitively speaking it’s no fun giving so many shots.    

3.  Accomplishment - Just because I'm not going to make any money playing golf doesn't mean I don't want to accomplish something in the game.  It won't be anything in the grand scheme of golf, but to see your hard work pay off in tangible results is exciting.  I probably spend too much time playing and practicing, but it is what I love to do.  The only reason I work out is to improve my game, but it's improving my health.  It's a reason to go to the course and really work on something.  I had a few years where I just played and it was fun, but something was missing.  I wouldn't really practice and could break 80, but couldn't shoot or break par.  It wasn't satisfying at all since I knew what I was capable of.

As for the college guys, I have played with a few that have no desire to continue competitive golf after they graduate.  Some will get jobs and continue to play events because they love it, and others will turn pro but not make it.  By the time they are 28-30, a lot of them will have their amateur status reinstated because they still want to compete.  

I will say that I enjoy Mid-Am events the most because the college guys who practice all day are not there as well as the kids who have their parents in tow and take foreeeeeever to play.  It gives us with a full time job a little better chance to finish higher on the board.

I can’t speak for others, but these are the reason I continue to play amateur golf.
    

[Steve Kline]

Mike - I have heard nearly those exact comments from almost every girl I have dated.  If you're not going to make any money, why continue to do it?

I try to play 8-12 events a year.  Some years I play a lot of qualifiers and get nothing and others I qualify so I play fewer events because more days are involved.  I got away from competitive golf in my early 20's, but rediscovered it while studying for my Masters in London.  My visa limited the amount I could work during term, so I started playing events again.  I don't know how I stayed away.

I play for three reasons (in no particular order):

1.  Access - You get to play great courses under tournament setups.  This year alone I will play Doral - Blue Monster, Black Diamond Ranch, Milwaukee Country Club and hopefully a few more if I can play decent in the coming months.  Many of the courses are private or expensive, and a tournament entry fees are reasonable.  For example, I qualified for the FL Am ($100 for qualifier and $125 after qualifying) and made the cut.  I got three rounds at Doral - Blue Monster and one at the McLean course in the tournament plus a practice round at each for $25 apiece, those rounds alone would have cost nearly $1000 in the off season.  Milwaukee Country Club is one of my favorite courses, but is nearly impossible to access.  I paid $125 for the US Am qualifier, and will get three rounds there (36 in the tournament and a practice round).  Compared to my friends who play mini tours (some of them are making money) I play much better courses.

2.  Competition - There is nothing like competitive golf.  I regularly play with a group of professional golfers (PGA Tour, LPGA, and mini-tours), and there are always bets.  Those rounds do not compare to playing in a tournament.  It's an experience that you cannot create with your regular group.  It's stressful, full of pressure, exciting, terrifying, rewarding, and so much more all rolled together.  Plus most State Golf Associations really put on great events.  There aren’t ropes and galleries, but they really take care of the players.  Tournaments are just so much different than just playing a course on a regular day.  I have as many great experiences as I do terrible ones, but I keep coming back.  There is just something about playing against the best around.  I know that I will never make a living playing golf, but I can still play a bit.  For those who are under the 1-2 handicap range, it’s tough to find people to compete with.  I played in a bunch of friendly events at my club in London, and more often than not I was giving double digit shots.  I had a great time with some great people, but competitively speaking it’s no fun giving so many shots.    

3.  Accomplishment - Just because I'm not going to make any money playing golf doesn't mean I don't want to accomplish something in the game.  It won't be anything in the grand scheme of golf, but to see your hard work pay off in tangible results is exciting.  I probably spend too much time playing and practicing, but it is what I love to do.  The only reason I work out is to improve my game, but it's improving my health.  It's a reason to go to the course and really work on something.  I had a few years where I just played and it was fun, but something was missing.  I wouldn't really practice and could break 80, but couldn't shoot or break par.  It wasn't satisfying at all since I knew what I was capable of.

As for the college guys, I have played with a few that have no desire to continue competitive golf after they graduate.  Some will get jobs and continue to play events because they love it, and others will turn pro but not make it.  By the time they are 28-30, a lot of them will have their amateur status reinstated because they still want to compete.  

I will say that I enjoy Mid-Am events the most because the college guys who practice all day are not there as well as the kids who have their parents in tow and take foreeeeeever to play.  It gives us with a full time job a little better chance to finish higher on the board.

I can’t speak for others, but these are the reason I continue to play amateur golf.
    

Will - your post nailed exactly why i still play competitively at the age of 36 (I never turned pro after college golf). The best golf experience of my life was playing in the Mid-Am at Bandon Dunes. I'm working hard to qualify again. Outside of my club championship I have won one tournament my whole life. I would love to win more, but I just love the competition too. Next week I play in the Ohio Am. The first goal is to make the cut - low 60. Then, to make the second cut - low 40. Then to finish top 20 so I don't have to qualify next year. If I play my absolute best I can do better than that.

[David_Tepper]

Anyone interested in "the mind of a competitive amateur" should check out Randy Haag's blog - www.randyhaag.com

Randy is 52 years old and has been playing competitive amateur golf in Northern California, nationally and internationally for 3 decades. He has been NCGA "player of the Year" 5 times and still competes (and wins) against the college kids. He was the low amateur at the British Senior Open last year and was recently medalist at the local qualifier for the US Senior Open.

And, to top it off, he has a job and a family.    

[Mike_Young]

Thanks for all of the above post.  I do understand what you are saying and I agree.  Tournament competition is completely different than any type of betting or whatever might be done.  You guys seem to make up the bulk of what I see at most of the amateur tourneys.  And there will always be exceptions such as Randy Haag's blog etc.  But I am speaking more of the small group that devotes all waking moments to such.  No little league games, not much family life, just a golf addiction and not much to show for it.  Let's face it. The USGA has a problem with guys that played as professionals and regain the amateur status.  It's like riding a bicycle for them.  How many of the last few Mid-ams have been won by past-pros?

I try to play as much as I can competitively as do several of my close friends and we enjoy going to the tournaments.  We go to events hoping we have one good round.  We practice or play when we can but we don't become absorbed with it.  But we were just discussing this past week and had come to some conclusions:  At any of these events there is the field and then maybe 10 guys that actually have a chance.  And of these 10, most practice everyday and play for at least 4 hours.  And most of them could not make a cut a Hooters event.  SO what is the one thing they have over most of the field in any of these tournaments.  Is it talent or time? It is an easy zone to get caught up in. 

[Tim Martin]

Mike - I have heard nearly those exact comments from almost every girl I have dated.  If you're not going to make any money, why continue to do it?

I try to play 8-12 events a year.  Some years I play a lot of qualifiers and get nothing and others I qualify so I play fewer events because more days are involved.  I got away from competitive golf in my early 20's, but rediscovered it while studying for my Masters in London.  My visa limited the amount I could work during term, so I started playing events again.  I don't know how I stayed away.

I play for three reasons (in no particular order):

1.  Access - You get to play great courses under tournament setups.  This year alone I will play Doral - Blue Monster, Black Diamond Ranch, Milwaukee Country Club and hopefully a few more if I can play decent in the coming months.  Many of the courses are private or expensive, and a tournament entry fees are reasonable.  For example, I qualified for the FL Am ($100 for qualifier and $125 after qualifying) and made the cut.  I got three rounds at Doral - Blue Monster and one at the McLean course in the tournament plus a practice round at each for $25 apiece, those rounds alone would have cost nearly $1000 in the off season.  Milwaukee Country Club is one of my favorite courses, but is nearly impossible to access.  I paid $125 for the US Am qualifier, and will get three rounds there (36 in the tournament and a practice round).  Compared to my friends who play mini tours (some of them are making money) I play much better courses.

2.  Competition - There is nothing like competitive golf.  I regularly play with a group of professional golfers (PGA Tour, LPGA, and mini-tours), and there are always bets.  Those rounds do not compare to playing in a tournament.  It's an experience that you cannot create with your regular group.  It's stressful, full of pressure, exciting, terrifying, rewarding, and so much more all rolled together.  Plus most State Golf Associations really put on great events.  There aren’t ropes and galleries, but they really take care of the players.  Tournaments are just so much different than just playing a course on a regular day.  I have as many great experiences as I do terrible ones, but I keep coming back.  There is just something about playing against the best around.  I know that I will never make a living playing golf, but I can still play a bit.  For those who are under the 1-2 handicap range, it’s tough to find people to compete with.  I played in a bunch of friendly events at my club in London, and more often than not I was giving double digit shots.  I had a great time with some great people, but competitively speaking it’s no fun giving so many shots.    

3.  Accomplishment - Just because I'm not going to make any money playing golf doesn't mean I don't want to accomplish something in the game.  It won't be anything in the grand scheme of golf, but to see your hard work pay off in tangible results is exciting.  I probably spend too much time playing and practicing, but it is what I love to do.  The only reason I work out is to improve my game, but it's improving my health.  It's a reason to go to the course and really work on something.  I had a few years where I just played and it was fun, but something was missing.  I wouldn't really practice and could break 80, but couldn't shoot or break par.  It wasn't satisfying at all since I knew what I was capable of.

As for the college guys, I have played with a few that have no desire to continue competitive golf after they graduate.  Some will get jobs and continue to play events because they love it, and others will turn pro but not make it.  By the time they are 28-30, a lot of them will have their amateur status reinstated because they still want to compete.  

I will say that I enjoy Mid-Am events the most because the college guys who practice all day are not there as well as the kids who have their parents in tow and take foreeeeeever to play.  It gives us with a full time job a little better chance to finish higher on the board.

I can’t speak for others, but these are the reason I continue to play amateur golf.
    

I think Will`s post is pretty spot on. The competitive fire doesn`t just burn out because you can`t collect a check at the professional level.

[Mike Sweeney]

Tomorrow I will run a sprint triathlon in Connecticut and I have absolutely no chance of Top 50% in the men's category as I have not seen a pool yet this season. Probably looking at the bottom 25%. Basically, I suck but I like the competitive atmosphere and it keeps me in shape.

In golf, I will play the occasional club tournament at Yale but that is it. Being third man on the high school golf team is not much of a legacy, but my misplaced golf ego (I think I am better than I am) prevents me from playing any amateur events as I don't want to be embarrassed. I played with two Vermont Amateur players over the weekend, and I was thinking "I can hang with this guy, but not the other."

Someday my wife will allow us to move from Manhattan and I can practice chipping at night after work......

Yea that will do it! 

[jeffwarne]

Thanks for all of the above post.  I do understand what you are saying and I agree.  Tournament competition is completely different than any type of betting or whatever might be done.  You guys seem to make up the bulk of what I see at most of the amateur tourneys.  And there will always be exceptions such as Randy Haag's blog etc.  But I am speaking more of the small group that devotes all waking moments to such.  No little league games, not much family life, just a golf addiction and not much to show for it.  Let's face it. The USGA has a problem with guys that played as professionals and regain the amateur status.  It's like riding a bicycle for them.  How many of the last few Mid-ams have been won by past-pros?

I try to play as much as I can competitively as do several of my close friends and we enjoy going to the tournaments.  We go to events hoping we have one good round.  We practice or play when we can but we don't become absorbed with it.  But we were just discussing this past week and had come to some conclusions:  At any of these events there is the field and then maybe 10 guys that actually have a chance.  And of these 10, most practice everyday and play for at least 4 hours.  And most of them could not make a cut a Hooters event.  SO what is the one thing they have over most of the field in any of these tournaments.  Is it talent or time? It is an easy zone to get caught up in.  

Mike ,
As someone who still competes semi-regularly(spring and fall) in a very competitive PGA Section, it's a question I frequently ask (particularly when I live 2 hours away from the closest event)
However, I've been unwilling to sacrifice family time( I coach Little League and basketball) or work time, and it shows in my golf.
that said, in the past couple years I've played some of the best rounds of my life0(in casual games)-perhaps due to perspective.
So I guess i still play to see if any of that shows up under the gun-occasionally it does.

Also, we play a bunch of great old dead guy courses that I enjoy playing for their history and architecture , as well as for the fact that you don't need to hit it 300+ to be competitive.
Also, I enjoy seeing the great pros and cameraderie of the MET section

All that said, I enjoy more setting up and playing in smaller informal events with local pros on local venues where the cameraderie is great  and the money doesn't gp to the administration and middlemen. ((although I completely understand the need for such)

[Matt_Cohn]

I don't exactly know who these people are who don't have jobs and play amateur golf all the time - I sure don't see them around. I do see folks who have work and family situations that allow them to practice and play, and certainly some of us have jobs that aren't as restrictive. Randy Haag works and does well but can play golf essentially whenever he chooses. I'm paid hourly but I can take days off when I need them, and I have summer for the most part. One of the better 30+ mid-ams in California is Scott McGihon from Palm Desert, and he's a teacher. Guys whose jobs are more restrictive just don't play as much.

Qualifiers are almost always on weekdays and any big tournament (more than 2 days) obviously includes a weekday, so if a guy works 9-5 and gets 2 weeks off each year, he just isn't going to play much tournament golf no matter how much he can practice on the weekends. I play a pretty solid schedule from April onwards. Just to give you an idea, I will be playing tournament golf on at least 17 weekdays in 2011. Someone might be forgiven for thinking I don't have a job! But I do; I just fit work, life and golf around each other. I think it's a pretty good accomplishment to be able to do that and obviously something that will be a whole lot harder if and when I have a family.

Hypothetically, if someone were rich enough to play golf every day and travel to all the tournaments they wanted, but couldn't win tournaments or be among the best players in the state? Well, yes, I'm sure they'd be pretty frustrated if they took it seriously, although they wouldn't be the first rich person who was just okay at golf! Maybe there are more of these folks in senior divisions? I don't know. But I don't see them where I play.

So is it the B-leagues? It depends on whether you're trying to get to the A-leagues, I suppose. I'm not. I think most competitive amateurs feel like we're in the A-league for people that don't have jobs. If you're under 22, playing amateur golf is part of the process of becoming a pro, so it feels like a natural step and not a step down. If you're over 22, you're probably playing amateur golf because you decided not to turn pro, and you forget about it.

I think the flaw in the analogy is that in baseball, you can't make it to the big leagues without going through B and AA and AAA or whatever they have. In golf, just say you're a pro and you are. The B-leagues are the E-Golf Tour, the Tight Lies Tour, etc., where everyone there wants to be somewhere else. I think everyone in amateur golf is right where they want to be - maybe striving for bigger tournaments, but not wishing they were pros.

That was kind of rambling. Did I answer the question?

[Steve Kline]

I own part of a family company and my particular job is slow in the summer. My home course is less than five minutes from my office. Even with the bad weather this year I have played or practiced most days. I typically go at lunch to practice or leave at lunch to play so i take as little time as possible away from my family. From October to January my clubs basically go in the basement because work is very bust, but you cannot play that much in Cincinnati then anyway. The fact is I would play the same amount of golf whether I was playing tournaments or not. I love to play. I might do more GCA outings in place of tournaments.

[Garland Bayley]

If you have a college scholarship to play golf, you are not an amateur IMO. Go earn your college tuition like the rest of us.

[Rory Connaughton]

Mike

  I have a friend that was a national caliber amateur as a young man. He competed in US Am's State Am's and Opens, local ams and opens and in a variety of national amateur tournaments and team events.  He did work for a living but the competitive fire never went out.  He won our county open in 5 decades (50's through the 90's) and placed second multiple times since including shooting his age a few weeks ago to threaten the leader on the last day. Frankly his legend is such that I believe had he been paired with the leader (a Division 1 scholarship player soon to turn pro) on the final day, he would have won such is his competitive fire.  He has also won a variety of state senior titles and continues to win even though he could play as a super senior at this stage. I think that there was probably a window to turn pro but I can tell you, he is only frustrated when he plays poorly. Amateur golf has been a great part of his life and I suspect that he would not trade it.

[Mark Johnson]

I don't exactly know who these people are who don't have jobs and play amateur golf all the time - I sure don't see them around. I do see folks who have work and family situations that allow them to practice and play, and certainly some of us have jobs that aren't as restrictive. Randy Haag works and does well but can play golf essentially whenever he chooses. I'm paid hourly but I can take days off when I need them, and I have summer for the most part. One of the better 30+ mid-ams in California is Scott McGihon from Palm Desert, and he's a teacher. Guys whose jobs are more restrictive just don't play as much.

Qualifiers are almost always on weekdays and any big tournament (more than 2 days) obviously includes a weekday, so if a guy works 9-5 and gets 2 weeks off each year, he just isn't going to play much tournament golf no matter how much he can practice on the weekends. I play a pretty solid schedule from April onwards. Just to give you an idea, I will be playing tournament golf on at least 17 weekdays in 2011. Someone might be forgiven for thinking I don't have a job! But I do; I just fit work, life and golf around each other. I think it's a pretty good accomplishment to be able to do that and obviously something that will be a whole lot harder if and when I have a family.

Hypothetically, if someone were rich enough to play golf every day and travel to all the tournaments they wanted, but couldn't win tournaments or be among the best players in the state? Well, yes, I'm sure they'd be pretty frustrated if they took it seriously, although they wouldn't be the first rich person who was just okay at golf! Maybe there are more of these folks in senior divisions? I don't know. But I don't see them where I play.

So is it the B-leagues? It depends on whether you're trying to get to the A-leagues, I suppose. I'm not. I think most competitive amateurs feel like we're in the A-league for people that don't have jobs. If you're under 22, playing amateur golf is part of the process of becoming a pro, so it feels like a natural step and not a step down. If you're over 22, you're probably playing amateur golf because you decided not to turn pro, and you forget about it.

I think the flaw in the analogy is that in baseball, you can't make it to the big leagues without going through B and AA and AAA or whatever they have. In golf, just say you're a pro and you are. The B-leagues are the E-Golf Tour, the Tight Lies Tour, etc., where everyone there wants to be somewhere else. I think everyone in amateur golf is right where they want to be - maybe striving for bigger tournaments, but not wishing they were pros.

That was kind of rambling. Did I answer the question?

In terms of the mid-am set, most of the perenniel top players I knew in both MN and PA fell into two or three categories.   

- self-employed or own their own business (everything from lawyer to plumber; several top MN players are in real estate or construction management)
- Home based sales role;  still working for someone else but have a lot of control over their schedule.   At my club, there are many players who play multiple times per week between 7 and 8 AM;  they are still probably working 35-40 hours per week but can structure their job around when courses/ practice areas are open.
- stay at home dads (actually more out there than you think)

As you will see, almost none of them have a typical 9-5 job where someone is actively watching their hours.  Luckily given the advent of technology, more and more jobs have flexible work environments

[Jordan Caron]

Crazy, I was just thinking about this today! 

My room mate is a very good amateur player and has won the PNGA and British Columbia Mid Am's.  Last night I got home late and he was packing for Kamloops and the BC Am being played this coming week.  He's already played the PNGA Cup at Eugene, the BC Mid Am at Storey Creek on the Island so far this year.  That's about 6 - 8 days off of work because both events run during the weekdays.

So now he's leaving to head Kamloops are a 4 day event during the week.  Calculating the days off work he misses and the travel expenses adds up in a hurry! 

He was talking about joining the CPGA this year I said he should do it because he can make an extra $10K in playing this year because he would dominate the Professional events.  Most of the events are 1 day events or 2 day weekend Opens which are fine because he has weekends off already. 

Working in the back shop and a few pro shop shifts means he doesn't make much money.  With the expenses of amateur golf and the amount of money he could make playing Professional golf as a CPGA member, my guess is that he would probably profit about $12k if he made the switch.   That's a lot for a guy who probably only makes $25K a year working in a shop.

In the end I think his love for amateur golf is in the way though and I have major respect for him because of that.

[Chris Cupit]

If you have a college scholarship to play golf, you are not an amateur IMO. Go earn your college tuition like the rest of us.

Garland,

I do not completely disagree with you but what about accomplished musicians who accept music sholarships or voice scholarships--piano, violin.  Are they "professionals" who have not earned a scholarship like "the rest of us"?

It's not apples to apples but I'm curious what people think.

I do agree that accepting a college scholarship is being paid to play and I would have no problem classifying scholariship athletes as professionals.  I chose to play college golf and accepted a scholarship to do so but I knew at an early age I had no desire to ever play professionally and given the choice between staying an amateur or accepting a golf scholarship, I would have declined the scholarship.  

I think it is kind of sad that the US Amateur is dominated by the semi/future pros, the publinks is dominated by college kids with access to some of the finest facilities in the world even if they are not technically private club members and the Mid-Am Championship is dominated by former golf professionals.  There really is little for a genuine career amateur to play in in which he or she is competing against other "real" amateurs.

[Mark Chaplin]

In the UK amateur and mid amateur events are played on some of our finest courses. Every week there is good competitive 36 and 72 golf available and they also cost very little.

Contrast that with events for aspiring young pros who visit all sorts of goat tracks for 18 hole events.

It is no wonder the amateurs do so well in Open qualifying.

[BCrosby]

Chris -

David Noll won the GA state am yesterday by birdieing 4 of the last 6 holes, in each case after driving it into the rough off the tee. He also had an incredible two putt to save par on the 17th after an approach out of the rough that he couldn't spin. An amazing finish.

As you know, Noll is in his mid-40's, hits it a mile and is a very nice guy. He didn't know he had the lead until he asked me on the way to the 18th green.

Is he a reinstated amateur? In a field full of D-1 kids from UGA, GaTech, LSU, Alabama, etc., it's interesting that the first and second (Mitchell) place guys, both in their mid-40's, lapped the field.

Bob

[JSlonis]

Chris -

David Noll won the GA state am yesterday by birdieing 4 of the last 6 holes, in each case after driving it into the rough off the tee. He also had an incredible two putt to save par on the 17th after an approach out of the rough that he couldn't spin. An amazing finish.

As you know, Noll is in his mid-40's, hits it a mile and is a very nice guy. He didn't know he had the lead until he asked me on the way to the 18th green.

Is he a reinstated amateur? In a field full of D-1 kids from UGA, GaTech, LSU, Alabama, etc., it's interesting that the first and second (Mitchell) place guys, both in their mid-40's, lapped the field.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for the info.  David has been a great mid-am player for quite some time, good to hear he won.  I had the chance to play him in the first round of match play in the 2003 US Mid Am at Wilimington CC (Delaware).  It was my first USGA event and he smoked me 5&3. 

[JR Potts]

The reinstated amateur is the biggest amateur golfing sham in the world.

While it would make little difference to my amateur golfing success/failure, it defies logic that guys with numerous professional victories across the globe and hundreds of thousands of dollars of professional winnings, can be, at any time, considered an amateur.

For all the failings of the USGA with technology, the reinstated amateur rule is in my opinion, the USGA's biggest.

[PCCraig]

The reinstated amateur is the biggest amateur golfing sham in the world.

While it would make little difference to my amateur golfing success/failure, it defies logic that guys with numerous professional voctories across the globe and hundreds of thousands of dollars of professional winnings, can be, at any time, considered an amateur.

For all the failings of the USGA with technology, the reinstated amateur rule is in my opinion, their biggest.

Ryan:

I agree with you on this. The USGA allows guys to flip flop way too easily and quickly between Pro and AM. 

[Shane Wright]

If you have a college scholarship to play golf, you are not an amateur IMO. Go earn your college tuition like the rest of us.

Is this an inside joke or something?   You can't be serious. 

There are over 300 scholarship golf programs (it may be as high as 400) in the US.  There are probably 4000-5000+ male student-athletes on golf scholarships across the US.  Less than 1% will make it to the tour for any amount of time and probably 10% +/- will play some form of professional golf for a brief amount of time - nationwide, hooters, some of the southern tours, etc.

Approximately 90% aren't good enough or choose not to play professionally, so to say they haven't earned it, and then to say they shouldn't be able to compete in amateur tournaments is an amateurish comment.

[Bill Seitz]

I'll echo the agreement with Will's post.  I try to play in a few of the state and district amateur events every year, and while my game is good enough to qualify occasionally, I mostly play for the reasons Will mentioned.  I've gotten the opportunity to play a lot of good courses in the Chicago area that I probably wouldn't have played otherwise.  And there's something about exchanging scorecards, being hyper-vigilant about the rules, and holing every putt that just makes it feel so much different than a regular round among friends.

I'd add a fourth reason to Will's three, which is that playing competitively gives me a reason to practice, and something to work towards.  There's a point toward the end of the summer when all the events are done where I feel kinda bummed, because I just don't really have anything to work for anymore.  I like the motivation that I get from competitive golf.

[Chris Cupit]

Chris -

David Noll won the GA state am yesterday by birdieing 4 of the last 6 holes, in each case after driving it into the rough off the tee. He also had an incredible two putt to save par on the 17th after an approach out of the rough that he couldn't spin. An amazing finish.

As you know, Noll is in his mid-40's, hits it a mile and is a very nice guy. He didn't know he had the lead until he asked me on the way to the 18th green.

Is he a reinstated amateur? In a field full of D-1 kids from UGA, GaTech, LSU, Alabama, etc., it's interesting that the first and second (Mitchell) place guys, both in their mid-40's, lapped the field.

Bob

I will find out but I thought both he and Billy did try and play professionally at one time.  I will double check though.  I am so sorry I missed the final round--I did follow it on-line and what a great finish.  Everyone loved the course and the set-up.   

[Chris Cupit]

Bob,

Yes David did play professionally.  A 2005 article described him as "a former touring professional and re-instated amateur".  He is a terrific player and a great guy.  I had the pleasure of being on a GSGA team with him and thankfully he carried us to victory! I think he got his status back around 1999.

Billy Mitchell also played (Asian Tour, Hooters Tour) and I am not sure when he got his status back.  Another great guy and I was glad to see him play well.

FWIW, our current top five points leaders for Player of the Year in GA are three re-instated ams, Russell Henley and someone I am just not familiar with.  I know one year at US Mid-Am qualifying, of the six qualifiers, five were former golf pros.

Let me also say that while I too think that re-instatements have been mishandled by the USGA it has nothing to do with the individual guys themselves  who tried to play professionally and have come back.  They all played by the rules as laid out and each of the guys I know is a quality person and golfer.  However, there is a distinct advantage those former professionals have over life long amateurs and it is a shame that there is are no events for golfers who stayed amateurs forever.