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Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2011, 04:29:27 PM »
Trump National Bedminster Old... it would be even better if there was some variety in the par 3's
Pinehurst #3.. Some very fun shots on a very short course w. small greens
Paramount (NY)... can't figure out why more people in NYC dont talk about this one with the size/slope on greens. Every hole gets better from tee to green
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Mike Hogan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2011, 11:44:11 PM »
For me it's

Bandon Trails-Bandon
Old Mac Donald-Bandon
Dismal River-Mullen Neb
Kingsley Club- Traverse Mi
Deacons Lodge-Brainerd Mn
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Trevor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2011, 12:06:30 AM »
Palmetto
Chisholm Park
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"When expectations are low, they can be met"

Sam Morrow

Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2011, 12:21:37 AM »
Trump National Philadelphia exceeded my expectations, I didn't know what to expect after reading what everyone on here had to say about it. Also Pine Dunes, I would rather play it everyday more than Whispering Pines.
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Cristian

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2011, 06:45:56 AM »
Bandon Trails
Ravenstein
Cruden Bay
Murcar
Ballyliffin old
Dooks
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Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2011, 06:47:53 AM »
North Berwick

Whilst "The Redan" gets all the accolades - there are so many other good holes to enjoy and appreciate.
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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2011, 06:55:06 AM »
KP,

I hate to be a pedant, but the hole is just called "Redan".

You're right, the stretch from 12-17 is about as good a run of holes as you'll find anywhere and about as gorgeous as views get late in the afternoon.
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Michael Goldstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2011, 07:02:34 AM »
I second Barnbougle/Lost Farm and Palmetto.  Also Plainfield, the Creek, Elie, the Machrie, Hoylake, New Zealand and Alwoodley.
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@Pure_Golf

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2011, 07:13:37 AM »
Quote from: Scott Warren on July 05, 2011, 06:55:06 AM
KP,

I hate to be a pedant, but the hole is just called "Redan".

You're right, the stretch from 12-17 is about as good a run of holes as you'll find anywhere and about as gorgeous as views get late in the afternoon.

Yes Scott - but in my mind it retains the emphasis...

What about 2 - 7 + 10 - it's a special place NB.
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Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2011, 08:44:35 AM »
White Manor in Philly is a course that exceeded my expectations. Bobby Weed did an excellent job on a course where the property was great and the bones were there.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2011, 12:58:14 PM »
It is also possible for an architect to occasionally build a course that exceeds his own expectations.

Most people would find that difficult to understand, because what's been sold for generations is that the all-seeing architect visualizes the entire course in his head, before anything is constructed, and then it's just a matter of building it all according to the Vision.  And, if that were true, then your courses would never exceed expectations, they could only let you down.

Fortunately, it's not true.  Sometimes the more ground you open up, the more little nuances you find that you can use; and sometimes your crew comes up with great details you hadn't thought of.

I would say of the courses we've built, the three that most exceeded my expectations are Ballyneal, Old Macdonald, and Tumble Creek.  I never really thought the first two would be compared favorably with Pacific Dunes by anyone, but they have been.  And the third was a development project that I hoped would be able to shed the "development" stigma, but it turned out way better than I thought; it has one of the best sets of greens we've built.
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Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2011, 01:28:13 PM »
Stone Eagle was amazing to see in person.  I didn't think anything new could be done in Palm Springs but boy was I wrong.

Olivas Links in Ventura was a surprise also.  The old course was bland nothing and the redo was really amazing.
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I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2011, 01:30:30 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 05, 2011, 12:58:14 PM
It is also possible for an architect to occasionally build a course that exceeds his own expectations.

Most people would find that difficult to understand, because what's been sold for generations is that the all-seeing architect visualizes the entire course in his head, before anything is constructed, and then it's just a matter of building it all according to the Vision.  And, if that were true, then your courses would never exceed expectations, they could only let you down.

Fortunately, it's not true.  Sometimes the more ground you open up, the more little nuances you find that you can use; and sometimes your crew comes up with great details you hadn't thought of.

I would say of the courses we've built, the three that most exceeded my expectations are Ballyneal, Old Macdonald, and Tumble Creek.  I never really thought the first two would be compared favorably with Pacific Dunes by anyone, but they have been.  And the third was a development project that I hoped would be able to shed the "development" stigma, but it turned out way better than I thought; it has one of the best sets of greens we've built.

Oops, hit the post button too soon. 

Tom, this is a bit off topic and perhaps deserves a thread of its own but how many architects/designers use your approach vs laying out the whole course and then making it fit?  Do most start to open up the routing and "feel" the land or are the drawing used almost exclusively? 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 01:34:39 PM by Jim Nelson »
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I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Ted Cahill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2011, 02:51:07 PM »
The Florida Club in Jupiter, FL.  I was playing with a local fellow at PGA Village and he suggested I meet him at the FC the next day.  I was enjoying my round with him and was game for something new, unknown- so my expectations were zero and I loved the course- an actual hidden gem and with rates under $30 in the summer- I was very smitten.  Have returned numerous times since. 
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“Bandon Dunes is like Chamonix for skiers or the
North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is
where those who really care end up.”

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2011, 06:12:26 PM »
Just today I ventured out to a 1970 Gordon course in Berks County, PA, that maybe 5 people on this site have played:  Blackwood.  It far exceeded my expectations.  Just solid public golf with a cash discount, walking discount, and even those fancy Bag Boy pull carts to be rented for a whoppin' $2.75. My round was 16 bucks.  And fast and firm conditions to boot, although you did need some hip turn on most putts over 10', but that's okay.   ;D
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2011, 11:39:10 PM »
There are a few great courses that I had very high expectations for, and met or exceeded those hopes.  In the spirit of the OP, the courses that really grabbed me that I didn't know what to expect were Pine Dunes in Frankston, Texas and Barona Creek.  On a recent note I played a course this past weekend in Montgomery, TX (greater Houston area) that for at least nine holes was much better than I was expecting - Woodforest Golf Club.
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Sam Morrow

Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2011, 11:57:41 PM »
Quote from: Greg Clark on July 05, 2011, 11:39:10 PM
There are a few great courses that I had very high expectations for, and met or exceeded those hopes.  In the spirit of the OP, the courses that really grabbed me that I didn't know what to expect were Pine Dunes in Frankston, Texas and Barona Creek.  On a recent note I played a course this past weekend in Montgomery, TX (greater Houston area) that for at least nine holes was much better than I was expecting - Woodforest Golf Club.

That's two for Pine Dunes!
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Jeff Shelman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2011, 12:30:39 AM »
Kirtland
Idle Hour
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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2011, 02:32:32 AM »
Yale
Highland Links
Royal Dornock
The Old Course
The river
Whistling Straits
Ballyneal
Giants Ridge
Old White
Cog Hill #4
Mission Inn
National
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2011, 09:24:02 AM »
Sutton Bay

Seccesion

Ocean Course

Chambers Bay

Lester
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Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2011, 09:32:27 AM »
Cruden Bay

Scioto

Camargo
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Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2011, 04:27:59 PM »
Unfortunately for me, I am the opposite and am usually disappointed in courses I have heard a lot about before playing.  But Muirfield in Ohio greatly exceeded my expectations.  Clearly Nicklaus' best.
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Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations New
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2011, 05:00:53 PM »
Jim:

I would agree that Muirfield Village is a wonderful course.  I really enjoyed playing each hole.  However, I think it suffers due to the  homes that surround almost every hole.  If either the homes were not there or trees were planted so you did not see them as much, it would have a more isolated feel to it.

In looking at old pictures of Pine Valley, there are actually homes on the site, but they have been hidden by the trees.  I would hope Jack would considering doing the same at Muirfield Village.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 08:14:32 AM by Michael George »
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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2011, 05:15:24 PM »
Ballyhack.
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Steve Goodwin

Re: Golf Courses that Way Exceeded Expectations
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2011, 05:31:57 PM »
If the question is about the architect's expectations, then Caledonia deserves a mention.  It was Mike Strantz's first design, and I got to walk it with him before it opened.  He knew he'd done something special and practically coming out of his skin with excitement.

I think the same thing happened to David Kidd at Bandon Dunes.  Not his first design, but almost, and it kept getting better as it took shape.
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