The Prairie Club (Dunes) Photo Tour - Lehman/Brands - All 18 Posted

[Mark Saltzman]

As the yardage guide states, pin position dictates line off the tee.  I never actually ventured over to the right side of the fairway so don't know what it looks like from over there and am not sure what pin that side is best for.  Front right, perhaps?

Interesting to note how the angle and not just the yardage changes from the different tee boxes.  This is part of what makes one want to return to the course as it can play so different.

Black Tee






White Tee




Red Tee (actually seemed like a more difficult tee shot than further back because lack of elevation made it difficult to see the distance to the bunkers and choose a line - not the only hole on the course where this was the case for the forward tees)




Approach from left




One of the simpler greens on the golf course.  From behind the green:

[Jim Colton]

Okay, as Pete Dye used to say, hold the phone.  There has GOT to be some discussion about this last hole, a reachable par-5 with a 100-yard wide fairway and a two-yard wide pot bunker right in the L.A.  To me, that sounds pretty silly, though I would have to reserve opinion until I saw the topography in the landing area and whether the little bunker commands a wider space.  What say you all?

I would also love to know, if it's fair to ask this question, how many of the bunkers on this course were flagged out by Messrs. Lehman and Brand, and how many were suggested / added by the shapers, Messrs. Franz and Smith.  My answer may have to come offline, I don't know, but I am interested to know if I am guessing correctly.

How many holes don't have centerline bunkers? Can there be too much of a good thing?

[Mark Saltzman]

Okay, as Pete Dye used to say, hold the phone.  There has GOT to be some discussion about this last hole, a reachable par-5 with a 100-yard wide fairway and a two-yard wide pot bunker right in the L.A.  To me, that sounds pretty silly, though I would have to reserve opinion until I saw the topography in the landing area and whether the little bunker commands a wider space.  What say you all?

I would also love to know, if it's fair to ask this question, how many of the bunkers on this course were flagged out by Messrs. Lehman and Brand, and how many were suggested / added by the shapers, Messrs. Franz and Smith.  My answer may have to come offline, I don't know, but I am interested to know if I am guessing correctly.

How many holes don't have centerline bunkers? Can there be too much of a good thing?

Jim,

Off the top of my head, there are centerline bunkers on: 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, sort of on 15 and 17, 18... so I guess that makes between 9 and 11 holes with 'em.

It might actually be a bit too much of a good thing, and almost certainly is if you play the course on a day when the wind is down and have to deal with them on every single hole.  However, many of them are not in play depending on the wind of the day.  For example, downwing, that centerline bunker on 12 will never be in play, but will be into the wind.  And if 12 is into the wind and thus the bunker is in play, then 8 will be downwind and the bunker likely not in play.

Perhaps the simplest thing is to say that they provided a lot of interest/variety off the tee, and I enjoyed them.

[Don_Mahaffey]

How many holes don't have centerline bunkers? Can there be too much of a good thing?

Yes

[Adam Clayman]

Jim, The farthest point, and imo, the climax of the drama, has the cutest centerline small bunker. I thought it worked perfectly with the uphill par 5, on the 12th., because the player that finds it won't blame the architect. It's his own damn fault for finding such a small target in a sea of fairway.


A couple of bunkers, that are centerlineish, were the result of battling the heavy rains we've had over the last 2 years. Ross, if I remember correctly, realized it would be a lot easier to have a bunker than fight the water trying to grow grass.

Mark, with the width, they provide the strategic options, too.

[Tom_Doak]

A couple of bunkers, that are centerlineish, were the result of battling the heavy rains we've had over the last 2 years. Ross, if I remember correctly, realized it would be a lot easier to have a bunker than fight the water trying to grow grass.

Huh?  Can't say I understand that logic.  It's just as easy to drain a wet spot in a fairway as it is to drain a bunker ... same amount of pipe involved.

[Don_Mahaffey]

J
A couple of bunkers, that are centerlineish, were the result of battling the heavy rains we've had over the last 2 years. Ross, if I remember correctly, realized it would be a lot easier to have a bunker than fight the water trying to grow grass.

Huh? Please help me understand that logic because I don't get it.

[Will Smith]

Tom,

Kyle found that little bunker while mowing the course before construction and fought to keep it- just a swipe or two of the excavator and it was done.

I don't think I lobbied for one bunker to be added to the course although I certainly expressed my opinions about placement and definitely lobbied for a few to be removed. (I won't say if they were or not).

Jim,

I believe it is easy to make observations about the multitude of centerline bunkers from looking at the pictures, but without playing it is difficult to ascertain truly if it is too much. I have said it once and will say it again. The course is a blast to play. The bunkers do provide for a lot of strategic options and as Mark points out are in play one day and not even a thought the next.

Adam,

Not sure what you are referring to, but I am guessing it is moving water rather than standing water that was may have been an issue?

[RJ_Daley]

TD, as far as centerline Bs and Pete Dye go, the mother of all of them in my mind is at #10 at Whistling Straits!

That little mutt out there in an ocean of FW on #12 at PC is something of a whimsical prickly little mind game for the average joe who hits his cute little right handed draw and is just in the right spot of that uphill shot to put a little brain fart in your backswing.    The better players and longer drivers, even into the wind from back tees should be able to handle 225 to carry that area to the top of the rise, even uphill, it seems to me.  That little bathtub reminds me of Gil's and Geoff's bathtub center B on 13 at Rustic Canyon.

Yes, I believe centerline bunkers can be overdone.  Just not on this particular course with miles of FW width and scope of the field of play as big as all outdoors, IMO.  

[Adam Clayman]

All I can tell ya'll is the fist day I was there, on my tour of the Dunes he was learning where the tough spots were, due to the heavy rains. I thought I recalled him telling me he decided to place a bunker, in a specific spot since he was having so much trouble growing the grass in that spot.

Now, it is possible, like on Dismal's 4th hole, that spot was were the cows would hang out.

I'll see if I can go back over Mark's pictures and point out which bunker. But it was either just under or over 2 years ago.

Sorry guys, I mis spoke, It was only one bunker, and truthfully I don't recall where it was. My guess is it's on 10, but, it could have been 11, 13, I really don't recall. Plus, he may have said he was considering it. This was in the second week of October, I believe 2.5 years ago. The next day, winter hit and stayed for a long long time.

[Phil McDade]

Okay, as Pete Dye used to say, hold the phone.  There has GOT to be some discussion about this last hole, a reachable par-5 with a 100-yard wide fairway and a two-yard wide pot bunker right in the L.A.  To me, that sounds pretty silly, though I would have to reserve opinion until I saw the topography in the landing area and whether the little bunker commands a wider space.  What say you all?

I would also love to know, if it's fair to ask this question, how many of the bunkers on this course were flagged out by Messrs. Lehman and Brand, and how many were suggested / added by the shapers, Messrs. Franz and Smith.  My answer may have to come offline, I don't know, but I am interested to know if I am guessing correctly.

I tend to agree with Tom here. It'd be one thing if this was a gathering bunker, ala what you might find at, e.g., the 12th at The Old Course. But it looks like it sits upon a small knob -- it looks like you'd have to hit a really good shot to get in the thing. Otherwise, a cool-looking pimple upon the landscape, apparently easily avoidable.

[Frank M]

Okay, as Pete Dye used to say, hold the phone.  There has GOT to be some discussion about this last hole, a reachable par-5 with a 100-yard wide fairway and a two-yard wide pot bunker right in the L.A.  To me, that sounds pretty silly, though I would have to reserve opinion until I saw the topography in the landing area and whether the little bunker commands a wider space.  What say you all?

I would also love to know, if it's fair to ask this question, how many of the bunkers on this course were flagged out by Messrs. Lehman and Brand, and how many were suggested / added by the shapers, Messrs. Franz and Smith.  My answer may have to come offline, I don't know, but I am interested to know if I am guessing correctly.

I have to agree. From the pictures, I was quickly asking myself what is that doing there? It is out of character, and based on the scale and width of the course, a little slilly.

When it comes to too much of a good thing referring to the amount of centerline bunkers, it is entirely possible, but not at PD. The width of the course allows for it. I am willing to guess that on most holes the fairway on either side of the center line bunkers are as wide if not wider than the fairways of most other courses. Furthermore, from what I understand they all factor in differently day to day depending on the wind, which allows them to create multiple options in multiple different playing conditions. Overkill sometimes?

[Adam Clayman]

Pete wou;dn't have a problem with this pit bunker on 12. At least I don't think he would since he did basically the same thing at CCOD on many holes right in front of expansive green fronts. Friar's Head added a small pot on it's 2nd(?) hole, adding interest to the approach.

Since it's small it works.

Mark, since you found it, is that what influences your opinion of it?

[Will Smith]

One other note about the bathtub bunker on 12 is that on downwind or calm days, players can drive the ball over the ridge and down into the flat. When trying this, one must be left of the bunker to catch the down slope and find the fairway. If you go right of it, you will go through the fairway into the rough. In other words, this is a key component of the tee shot.

As far walking the course, there are really only two tough transitions - between 2 and 3 and then 12 and 13. Everything else is very reasonable and often intimate. My issue was that there was little signage and no cleared walkpaths. Having built the tees and I knew where they were and was able to stomp over the grass to get to them in a relatively easy fashion. As Mark points out, there needs to be mown paths off the front of the tees to the fairways. The course was designed to be walked and the cart paths were meant to be ridden, not walked. With a little effort and thought, the Dunes Course could be presented in a way that makes it much more appealing to walkers. I have said as much to the powers that be out there, but to no avail. I am no Jim Colton, but I walked thirty-six there last summer on a warm day so.

[Mark Saltzman]

One other note about the bathtub bunker on 12 is that on downwind or calm days, players can drive the ball over the ridge and down into the flat. When trying this, one must be left of the bunker to catch the down slope and find the fairway. If you go right of it, you will go through the fairway into the rough. In other words, this is a key component of the tee shot.

Will,

A very good point that I had not thought of.  Without that bunker there are very few (if any) points of reference to tell you where to hit the drive when downwind.

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark, since you found it, is that what influences your opinion of it?

Adam, I'm not sure what you are referring to.  I didn't hit my ball in that little bunker.

[Jason Topp]

I am enjoying the photo tour.

I have a hard time visualizing how the course plays from pictures in part because it is difficult to guess how the greens play and the impact of the wind at such a location so I don't feel like I can comment much on the merits of the course.

[Adam Clayman]

The course plays like most open space courses, although, for a guy who prefers that openness, there are several places that make you feel ill at ease. #10 especially. I consider this to be a positive because it makes you feel.   Mark, my bad. I thought you found that bunker on 12. Could 13 be an Alps too?

[Ron Farris]

Many great discussions regarding bunkering took place at Merritt Dam during lunch time.  It would be interesting to see the cell phone time that took place between Kyle and Tom Lehman during the construction of PC Dunes.  Likewise, Chris Brands practically lived in Valentine, attended all the Badger football games, ran for mayor and was narrowly defeated by Tyler Swedberg, who was later impeached for neglect of duty (attending too many rodeo events) and replace by Ross Buckendahl, who now controls the town and the golf course.

[Ron Farris]

Happen-chance to be in this bunker, but that is golf.  It is hard to match scale in the Sand Hills of Nebraska, and in golf it is often the going against logic and conventional wisdom that often gets the attention. 

[Mark Saltzman]

An absolutely massive difference between the whites and blacks on this one.  From the tips this is one of the most intimidating approaches on the golf course.  From the whites, the approach is fairly simple.

This is one of the more interesting green shapes on the golf course. 

From the back tees, the farther right the pin is (and thus the more bunker one must carry), the shallower the green becomes.  I'm not sure this makes for a great risk/reward proposition when the pin is on the right (as it is in the photos) and few players will attempt the hero shot at the pin.  The shot will almost always be to the left/centre of the green and if the pin is on the right, then try to two-putt and get out with 3.


From the white tees I think the green shape works really well.  To a back pin, the green starts to get really narrow (especially if the wind is blowing, and it should be a cross-wind from the whites).  One must choose, play 30 feet short of the pin and have lots of room to work with, or play all the way to the pin and you better be accurate.  The risk/reward proposition makes more sense from the whites.



Black Tee






White Tee





Short of green (from white tee perspective)




Massive collection area over green




From Over Green




From Behind

[Mark Saltzman]

Surprised there is no discussion about 14 because of:

a) the massive difference between black/white tees,
b) the unusual shape of the green,

but anyways, to quote Jay-Z, on with the next one..

[Mark Saltzman]

Double Black Tees (662 box)




Black Tees




White Tees




2nd from left side of fairway




2nd from left of centerline bunker




2nd from right of centerline bunker (best angle, but you would never be here on purpose)




First look at green from top of hill




Approach from left side of fairway (can actually see green from here and is shortest line in, but it is darn intimidating hitting over all that blowout)




Approach from centre






The green has a very cool/fun backboard







From Behind

[Ian Andrew]

Mark,

I'm always slow to the party.

This is a golf course that I will make the effort to see.

Thanks for sharing all the information and photos.
Nice to see a talented guy like Chris get due credit for his work.

[Adam Clayman]

Every hole here is unique due to the topography. Should it be perennially #1?

Mark, I have played the 14th a few times now and never saw that look from the back tees. Quite unique.
15 green is especially cool.