Public Links at Bandon Dunes

[Ted Cahill]

Kalen- I agree.  The plumb bobbing was winceful. Also, Dodd's father on her bag- constantly checking her alignment on every shot and verbally coaching her up to the moment of her backswing was very distracting.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen- I agree.  The plumb bobbing was winceful. Also, Dodd's father on her bag- constantly checking her alignment on every shot and verbally coaching her up to the moment of her backswing was very distracting.

I must admit, I got a little cackle seeing the frustration on that kids face who was wearing the red shirt. He would get flustered every time he flew his ball on the green and it ended up 30-40 feet past the hole.  You would think after an entire week there, he'd figure out those kind of shots don't fly.

Overall though, I thought the course looked fantastic.  That was my 1st time seeing the extent of that Alps hole on 16 and I almost laughed at the size of that dune that must be negotiated when going for the green.  I'm guessing there are a few elderly senior players who would like to blow that thing up. 

[Will Lozier]

As much as I hate EVER hearing about the dreaded Stimpmeter, as a former Bandon caddie (and I'd be interested hearing from Joe or other Bandon vets), the 11/10 readings for greens/fairways doesn't seem unrealistic at all.  I've had players putt from over 50 yards off the green in certain situations given that it was the best play and the difference in speed is very slight.  I would add though that downwind, the green readings could be 14 and into the wind as slow as 7 - depending on slope obviously.

[Terry Lavin]

I watched some of each telecast and I thought that the course looked great.  I appreciated the commentary about the architecture and the very special opportunity of holding the PubLinks for both men and women at the same facility.

The most astounding thing to me is that they hosted a national championship on a golf course that was open for only a year.   Has that ever been done in the modern era?  I rather doubt it.

That, to me, is another feather in the cap of Mike Keiser.  Like everything else about Bandon, the notion that one of its courses would be both worthy and ready to host a national championship only a year removed from Opening Day is simply astounding.

[Joe Bentham]

Old Macdonald was opened June 1st of last year so it has been open more then a year.
As for the Turf, I'll defer all of those issues to Tom Jefferson.  If he says the fairways aren't 10, then they aren't 10.  I'm not sure the greens where 11...but like Tom said, it sounds good on TV.
I'm curious how come no one is talking about Mills's drop on 10.  He hit it through 10 green to the back of 5 green.  The USGA official MADE him take a drop of of 5 green to play his next shot.  I understand the ruling if it was a different green but 5 and 10 are the same green!  They don't get a drop at the old course during the open at St. Andrews!!  They had to play shots of the practice putting green at Oakmont a couple of years ago.  Im glad Mills lost the hole but I think the USGA dropped the ball when the decided to call #5 and #10 greens separate.

[Tom Jefferson]

Tom Y;  Regarding the relative similarities in speed and turf species and selection between the greens and fairways, you are no doubt correct, IMO.
(With the possible exception of the Old Course)

Joe;  Of course, the supt. for Old Mac, Eric Johnson, and his colleague Ken Nice are the experts ('masters', if you will) regarding turf at Old Mac, as Ken grew it in and Eric has been fine tuning it for some months now.  Those two deserve the kudos for the purity of the playing surfaces, and the overall phenomenal presentation of the course.

Regarding the 5th/10th green issue, in preparation for the championship and with a bit of consulting from Jim Urbina, the two greens, once mowed as one, lately have been mowed separately.  If you stood on the turf between the two, you would not only see a slight difference in turf height and character between there and the greens, but you would also see the lines of white paint dots denoting the respective green edges.
As to why Mr. Mills received, or was forced into, a drop from #5, Ms. Dodd one day and in an almost identical situation, had to play her ball from where it lay on the 5th, as she was playing the 10th, I do not know.  The rules and their interpretation, at least to the observer, are quizzical sometimes.

Best,
Tom

[Tom_Doak]

My intention was always that #5 and #10 greens were separate, although they started mowing them together when the course opened and had not stopped the last time I played there [which was on Opening Day a year ago].  I'm happy to hear they are separated now.  From a Rules standpoint, there ought to be a drop in play, because if you wind up way over from #10 fairway, there are some places on the right front of #5 green where you couldn't get a putt to stay on #10 green at all ... and if they mowed them together and called it a double green, then there would be no option to drop.

I guess they could have a local rule that says players are FORCED to drop, if they want to keep players from taking a wedge out on the green and taking a divot -- that's always a legal option, although not one very many players would be comfortable taking up.  I am curious if the young lady in the semi-final match really was forced to play her ball from on the #5 green back to #10, or if she just OPTED to do so.  If she was forced to do so, I believe that was an incorrect ruling, with the two greens marked as separate.  Surely they didn't just change it up for Sunday's play?

P.S.  As to hosting tournaments early, my recollection is that the Ocean Course at Kiawah hosted the Ryder Cup before it ever opened for public play.  It was certainly within a couple of months of its opening, anyway.

[Terry Lavin]

Joe,

Thanks for the edit/correction. My trips out there must be blending together.

[Joe Bentham]

Tom

Then isn't having the 10th green and the 5th green so big and so close a design flaw?
Corbin Mills hit such a bad second shot into 10 green that his third should have been in a place that didn't allow him to get it close to the pin. Allowing him to take a drop and hit a wedge to 10 feet after he poorly planned and executed his second shot isn't in the spirit of the game or links golf in particular IMO.

[Will Lozier]

Joe,

I believe the putting green at Oakmont played as OOB for the Open and does on a day-to-day basis.

[William_G]

It was a real treat watching the coverage on TV.  I think the thing that impressed me the most was how good Mills was hitting the various wedge chip shots around the green. Something that is completely beyond my skill set.

 I wonder if the players fell in love with links golf the way most of us do when we first experience Bandon courses or if because it is a competition they come away more frustrated.

+1, golf as it was meant to be!

[Pete_Pittock]

Since 5 and 10 are now mowed as separate greens if you are 5 plating 10 (and vice versa) they are wrong putting greens. You get a free drop when your ball is on gthe wrong putting green at the nearest point of relief. I surmise Mills asked the refereee if he was on a wrong putting green and was allowed to drop off. The day before, when (Dodds?) putted from nearly the same position she suffered a loss of hole penalty. She was apparently unaware of the infraction, and her opponent had the opportunity to call the penalty, but didn't. It was all moot and didn't change the outcome of the match because (Dodds?) lost the hole anyway by scoring higher. OR, while it appeared on TV that she was one the green, when in fact she was not.

As a referee there are two schools of thought as to how much to intercede in the match. Hopefully the referee was aware of the situation and was ready to ac if a claim was made by the opponent. And I was suprised the USGA didn't have a rules official assigned to the telecast. The commentary by the talent was near abysmal from a rules standpoint, IMHO.

Other than that I thought the courses and the resort came out +1, especially with the blue skies. I'd guess BDGR has been saving them up since last November

[Tom_Doak]

Tom

Then isn't having the 10th green and the 5th green so big and so close a design flaw?
Corbin Mills hit such a bad second shot into 10 green that his third should have been in a place that didn't allow him to get it close to the pin. Allowing him to take a drop and hit a wedge to 10 feet after he poorly planned and executed his second shot isn't in the spirit of the game or links golf in particular IMO.

Joe:

It isn't ideal that #10 and #5 are so close.  The fifth green wasn't going to be that big initially.

However, the second half of your argument is ridiculous.  It is entirely consistent with links golf that sometimes a bad miss will result in a fairly easy recovery -- while in other cases, you're completely screwed.  I did not see the shot in question, but I can't think of too many places around the fifth green where it would be easy to get close to a flag on #10.

[Mike Hamilton]

Tom

Then isn't having the 10th green and the 5th green so big and so close a design flaw?
Corbin Mills hit such a bad second shot into 10 green that his third should have been in a place that didn't allow him to get it close to the pin. Allowing him to take a drop and hit a wedge to 10 feet after he poorly planned and executed his second shot isn't in the spirit of the game or links golf in particular IMO.

Joe:

It isn't ideal that #10 and #5 are so close.  The fifth green wasn't going to be that big initially.

However, the second half of your argument is ridiculous.  It is entirely consistent with links golf that sometimes a bad miss will result in a fairly easy recovery -- while in other cases, you're completely screwed.  I did not see the shot in question, but I can't think of too many places around the fifth green where it would be easy to get close to a flag on #10.

I saw both Dodd's putt and Mill's chip and it appeared based on what the Golf Channel folks reported that she was allowed to putt but that he was forced to drop.  However, Dodd had a line the 10th flag and Mills did not, so maybe it was misreported and he was allowed a free drop to avoid taking a divot in the 5th geren.

As far as an easy recovery, from watching on TV I would say Corbin hit a pretty remarkable shot.  He flopped it high, probably some 40-50 yards, landed it softly just off and on top of the back left ridge of the 10th green and it rolled down the hill to within about 15 feet.  I'll bet 3 times out of 4 he would have been left with 50.

All in all a great event and a great venue!

[Pete_Pittock]

Tom

Then isn't having the 10th green and the 5th green so big and so close a design flaw?
Corbin Mills hit such a bad second shot into 10 green that his third should have been in a place that didn't allow him to get it close to the pin. Allowing him to take a drop and hit a wedge to 10 feet after he poorly planned and executed his second shot isn't in the spirit of the game or links golf in particular IMO.

I don't see them as a design flaw, but I didn't see the topography prior to construction. When two holes share a topgraphical feature they have to be close together. I've never seen a ball on 10 when playing playing the 5th and you already said that it was a poorly planned and executed shot(on a 480 yard par 4), so the problem seems to be the play rather than design. Are you advocating a more penal architctural style which would be the opposite of all the resort has done in the last ten years to speed up play.

So he hit a great wedge shot to 10 feet. He had the advantage of wind against and hit the shot to a 2 yard deep section which allowed the shot to be successful. That's how he won the tournament. I have no idea how taking a legal drop isn't in the spirit of the game or links golf so I won;t further answer.

[Scott Weersing]

I watched some of each telecast and I thought that the course looked great.  I appreciated the commentary about the architecture and the very special opportunity of holding the PubLinks for both men and women at the same facility.

The most astounding thing to me is that they hosted a national championship on a golf course that was open for only a year.   Has that ever been done in the modern era?  I rather doubt it.

That, to me, is another feather in the cap of Mike Keiser.  Like everything else about Bandon, the notion that one of its courses would be both worthy and ready to host a national championship only a year removed from Opening Day is simply astounding.

One of our least favorite courses (or is it one of our favorite courses?) was awarded a major tournament before the course was even opened....




Of course, Erin Hills.

It opened in 2006 and hosted the women's APL in 2008. And then it has been redesigned every year since.

[Joe Bentham]

The shot Corbin Mills was 'forced' to hit from in front of the 5th green into the 10th green was difficult, no doubt.  Damn near impossible for the handicapped golfer to get that one down in three once in 10 tries.  But for a scratch player on his way to winning the APL?  Well it wasn't nearly as difficult for him to get that shot close as it would've been had the USGA made him play it off of the 5th green where it had finished.  And that is my point, sometimes you've hit a shot so bad that you just can't get there from where your at. 
Corbin should have had to either play his wedge from off the 5th green, hit a putter down off the front of 10 green or concede the hole.  As it was he made a 5 and if his opponent hadn't made a stellar 4, Corbin would have pushed, or worse won, a hole from Alcatraz. 

This picture is from earlier today (7.4.11).  The pin in the foreground is the 10th, the one in the background is the 5th (and WAY in the back is 17 at Pacific.  But you guys already know all this).  You could have putted your ball from the 10th pin to the 5th pin and the consistency of the grass under your golf ball would have been the same the WHOLE way. 
Old Macdonald, as it was presented for the last couple of days of the matches and the condition it is still in as of this afternoon, is amazing.  Fast, rock hard and the greens rolling in all their glory.  I'm a Pacific Dunes disciple through and through but my argument wouldn't have been as loud this afternoon had someone said Old Macdonald was the best course on property. 

[Garland Bayley]

But Joe, Old MacDonald is the best course on the property.

[Morgan Clawson]

My thoughts and observations after watching the Fri and Sat telecasts:

1)  Old Mac looked amazing visually.  The size and elevation changes of the greens was greater than I imagined.  The Alps hole looked spectacular.
2)  Friday looked very windy.  The players appeared to be struggling. On Saturday the winds were lighter and the players were executing very well.
3)  The USGA has to be thrilled.  Both matches went down to the 36th and 37th holes. The course and the matches were very compelling - back and forth leads, near holes in 1 by both groups, etc.  I should not have spent as much time as I did watching the matches, but I couldn't pull myself away.  Playing women's and men's on the same course was fun to watch.
4)  The announcers seemed to love the course and Bandon in general.  Lots of love for Mike Keiser - perhaps 1 mention of him every hour. Nice shout-outs to Tom Doak and Jim Urbina too.
5)  As usual, the broadcasters were too lazy to provide much beyond a passing mention of the strategy and origins of the template holes.  It was much easier for them tospend time reminding of us Michelle We's Pub Links victory many years ago. Yawn.

[Steve Kline]

In regards to Morgan's point #4 as I watched I kept thinking how much did Bandon have to pay to get the Publinks on TGC? It was like one giant infomercial. How many times did they show where Bandon was located, talk about the how high the four courses were ranked, how Keiser searched the whole country for land like this, and how it is the truest links experience in the US? All of this is true but when it was like watching one of those Hawaii infomercials Rolfing used to do when someone wasn't hitting a shot.

Has the Publinks ever been televised before? Perhaps it has but I only watched this one because it was on Old Mac.

[George Pazin]

In regards to Morgan's point #4 as I watched I kept thinking how much did Bandon have to pay to get the Publinks on TGC? It was like one giant infomercial. How many times did they show where Bandon was located, talk about the how high the four courses were ranked, how Keiser searched the whole country for land like this, and how it is the truest links experience in the US? All of this is true but when it was like watching one of those Hawaii infomercials Rolfing used to do when someone wasn't hitting a shot.

Has the Publinks ever been televised before? Perhaps it has but I only watched this one because it was on Old Mac.

It has been televised before, several times, if memory serves. I vaguely recall seeing Trevor Immelman for the first time during a Pub Links, but it could have been something else. And I think they televised it when Ryan Moore was winning every amateur tourney in sight. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they have an agreement with the USGA to televise one of a few different am events - the Pub Links, the Mid-Am, the Senior Am, etc - and it rotates somewhat from year to year, though there are probably allowances when someone compelling comes on the scene.

I'd call the frequent touting a win-win!

[astavrides]

At the Mid-Am in 2007 i was in the 10 man playoff for five spots to get in match play. I was in the first group of five to play #1 at BT. I hit the green in two but just barely. Another player was on his way to double, saw me mark my ball, and told the rules official I was not on the green. The official came over and said that I was. I thought that was a really jerk move.

In match play, I might agree, but in that situation, wouldn't that be protecting the field?  Maybe a better way to do it would have been to point it out to you first, and then discuss it with you.  If there was still a doubt, then call in the rules official.

[astavrides]

To Cliff's question: Having played in a number of US Public Links qualifiers (before joining a private club) I can attest that there are few, if any, players in the field without anytime access to private clubs.  They exploit loopholes to compete in the Championship.  There may be bonafide public golf course players in qualifiers but eventual roster for the event itself is essentially made of collegiate players.

Does anyone really believe Ms. Woods doesn't play at at least one private club?

WW

Indeed, during the finals the announcers said that Kevin Chappell had called in and said that fellow Fresnoite 'Derek Ernst plays at Belmont Country Club, er Belmont Golf Club'.  The announcers, I think, were trying to drop Kevin Chappell's name, not drop a dime on Ernst, and it was funny that they tried to catch themselves and change it the name of this private club from country club to golf club.