How Many Courses Have You Played?

[Paul Richards]

Best five (first time) played in 2001:

Kingsbarns
San Francisco GC
Holston Hills
Hazeltine
Castle Pines

[Joe Andriole]

Played about 600including 80+ of all the national and world lists.  Favorite 5 first time;National Golf Links,Cypress Point, Crystal Downs, Pine Valley, Prairie Dunes.  What are your most diappointing Famous course experiences. My top 5 disappointments:Augusta National,Baltrusol,Shoal Creek, Olympic and Congressional.

[TEPaul]

Shivas:

You get an A+ for observation! I just thought I'd throw in Fernandina Muni to see if anyone would notice! It probably cost about $20,000 build back in the, I don't know what, 1940s or 50s maybe! But it reminds me of old Florida I used to know amongst the low pines and Live Oak and Spanish moss but the course is basically just tees, fairways and greens!

Just put Applebrook in its place on my list!

Actually I have fond memories of Fernandina Muni. My father in law has a place at Amelia Island and one day I was driving past Fernandina Muni with my wife and I said; "Why don't we go in there and look at that course"? So we did and to my amazement she said: "Why don't we play it?"

My wife doesn't like golf, hits balls about once a year and plays on a course about every other year and then with a definite sneer on her face. She also has an ingrained field hockey move and hits every single ball dead right--and I do mean dead right!

I'm not a bad teacher and my Dad who was a very good teacher told me long ago you have a chance of teaching a beginner if they do the same thing wrong on every shot even if it is dramatically bad.

So I'd been musing on my wife's dead right shots for sometime to no avail--her dead right drives BTW go less than 100 yards! And on about the 9th hole of the Fernandina Muni I decided to browbeat a couple of radically different thoughts past her vicious sneer and to my total amazement she hauls off and rips this gorgeous looking low to medium draw out there well past 200yds for the first time ever. If you could have seen the difference between that shot and the other dead right stuff she hit every single time you wouldn't forget the Fernandina Muni either!

[Paul Perrella]

  1. Royal Portrush
  
  2. Royal County Down

  3. Fenway

  4. Quaker Ridge

  5. Shadow Creek

  If I could put 10 on my list of top 5 there would be more from Ireland.

[Paul Richards]

Paul:

Amen to that!

[TEPaul]

PaulP:

As you can see this site does not look at numbers the same way normal people do (par!?), so you can put ten on your list of top five--or as many from Ireland as you want to!

But don't mind me, because I AM losing my mind! Recently I've been thinking of ways to apply John Forbes Nash's "Game theories" to many of the problems of golf and golf architecture!

For instance, Nash proved the existence of a strategic equilibrium for non co-operative games--"The Nash Equilibrium"--and proposed the "Nash Program" in which he suggested approaching the study of cooperative games via a reduction to non-cooperative form!

I mean, come on, this is much better than Max Behr! Can you imagine a better way to understand or even prove how and why Davis Love, Tiger Woods and Ted Tryba, all paired together, played #10 Riviera in the LA Open the way that they did?

[THuckaby2]

Mr. Paul:

You get an F for powers of observation, this time.  It was I, not shivas, who commented on your inclusion of Fernandina Muni.  As penance, you are required to extol the virtues of Pebble Beach as #1 course in the world, surpassing Pine Valley.

Fr. Tom Huckaby, order of Golf Course Idiots

[JohnV]

326 at last count, with another 17 that I spent considerable time on working tournaments but didn't play.

Top 5 new from 2001
1. Prairie Dunes
2. Pacific Dunes
3. Hollywood
4. Hamilton Farm
5. University of Michigan, Blue

[John_Lovito]

I have probably only played between 50 to 60 courses.  That's about the same number of courses Noel Freeman plays over a three day weekend.

[Bill_Coggins]

I have seen a few tracks in po-dunksville, but nothing that really amounts to much.


My excess would be having played more than a 1000 rounds at the same course.  I use to do 12-15 rounds a week.  Should they ever want to return to what the course looked like when I was a kid, I can give them every detail, with my both hands behind my back and my eyes closed.

[NAF]

JAL, hombre, amigo,

How dare you?  Yes, I am on a quest. A quest for knowledge, a quest to educate myself in golf architecture and you kick me in the gut claiming I am an elistist who plays too much...

Was it not you who after I birdied your humble course Plainfield's opening hole and parred the tough 2nd hole that you decided to put your stink on me wishing me bad luck so that I have never broke 90 ever there..

Was it not you who whispered to Bambi at Shinnecock to move a few steps to the left so that our mutual amigo Jim Reilly could shank one into her hindquarters??

It is you, sir, who are the devil..

[John_Lovito]

Noel,

I seem to remember things differently.  I was only trying to be a good friend by giving some advice on how to play the course.  If you recall, I pointed out you should hit it straight, keep the ball below the hole and watch the pace of your putts.  Very simple, you just were not paying attention.    

[NAF]

John,

As I remember:
We were on the 3rd Tee at Plainfield..I put my tee in the ground and as I approached my shot I saw you with voodoo medicine man face paint, dancing a strange skipping jig while speaking in weird tongues and then you finally said you will never do well at my course..Then I hit my 8-iron into the water and the round went pear-shaped.

Then again, I got my revenge at Cruden Bay when we played there last June..Perhaps we should go back to that bar we went to after the round where the locals wanted to kick your yankee tail...Lucky, I was there to keep the raging crowd away...They saw you for the criminal you are..

[Mark_Fine]

I've played a few different courses over the years.  But in all the rounds, the one thing I'm always very conscious of is to make sure I try to enjoy every one.  Frankly, I love golf architecture, but I also just love to play the game.  

[Gib_Papazian]

How many courses? Countless. I tried to write them all down once (from 8 years old to 42) and lost interest after 250. On the Classic GolfWeek list or GD, it works out to eight out of the top 10 and 18 out of the top 25. The Modern List is a bit spotty because so few truly great courses are being built in my part of the country anymore.

Tons of 6's and 6 1/2's  in Northern California , but to crack the top 100 Modern is a tough road to hoe for any course.      

Yet I wonder if there is a law of diminishing returns in playing a zillion great tracks. There are so many people I know who have played 50 or 60 of the top 100 and have ceased to learn anything new because they never play a golf course anymore unless it is "recognized."

Like movies, where seeing horrible films can be as much of a learning experience as great ones, golf may be the same way. Maybe it is closer to wine appreciation in that you begin with Boones Farm, move towards chardonnay and eventually end up preferring fine Cab's, red Zin's & Sirah's.

It seems to me that there are several stages towards enlightenment (or educating your pallette?):

Infancy: Public Muni player who cannot see the flaws in "his little mud heap."

Stage #1: Public player who honestly thinks Pelican Hill (or any decent CCFAD) is a great course.  With no basis for comparison, in his mind it is!

Stage #2.  First taste of something really special in the 2nd tier - SFGC, Creek, O-Club, Bel Air. This often coincides with the realization that the best clubhouses are found at places like Garden City and not "New Riche CC."

Stage #3. An epiphany at NGLA or Cypress or PV, where it all becomes clear. Here, the student begins to feel distain for average golf courses.

Stage #4. Been everywhere, including Scotland, England and Ireland. Seen it all from top to  bottom and can articulate what he/she likes, dislikes and most importantly WHY.

Final Stage: Complete Golf Grok. The great wheel returns to infancy where the master can sense beyond the shortcomings of the simple muni, but grasp the grace, dignity and simplicity of it also. Like an art critic with a painting, he sees past the condition, cart girl and clubhouse and sees the strategies, line, texture and composition.

Call bullshit all you like. I've seen this over and over and believe this wholeheartedly.

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

Gib

That was perfect.  But, you didn't need to repeat it!

I think that all of us, at some point in any of our rounds, no matter where or when or with whom we are playing should put on those ruby red Foot-Joys, click our heels together, close our eyes and say:

"There's no place like home.  There's no place like home."

[Mark_Fine]

Gib,
Just curious about your comment on "recognized" courses??  Just who do you think is "recognizing" them in the first place  

Don't kid yourself, there may be lots of "errors" on these "lists" but you can always learn something from any golf course you play!  
Mark

[SPDB]

Gib - You have SFGC in your 2nd Tier?  
what are the components of Tier 1?

[GeoffreyC]

It was a VERY good year for first time play

1a/1b- Pine Valley and National
3- Shinnecock Hills
4- Garden City
5- Plainfield

I have not kept track of all of the courses I've played but the shoeboxes are full of old cards. I've been very lucky and thanks to all my golf companions.

[THuckaby2]

Gib:  you have anyone in mind as you wrote that?  

It sure as hell hit home for me, whether you had me in mind or not!

The only drag is I know FAR FAR FAR too many people who never make it past stage 1, just due to lack of access.  I have been VERY blessed.  But it's hard for me to hold anything against these guys... it's not their fault...

But anyway, yep, lil ole Santa Teresa is looking better and better, and I am enjoying finding the nuances these days.  Of course, you told me all about that two years ago...

It's been a hell of a fun journey.  Thanks for being a part of it!

TH

[Gib_Papazian]

Mark,

By "recognized," I mean golf courses that come highly touted by virtue of holding a prestigous event, "Best" lists, print media etc. These are the people who  won't take the time to play (or even walk out onto) the Portland course after playing Troon.

Who when they go to a strange town, only want to play the most famous track, ignoring the possibility of a hidden gem.

The kind of guy who has played so many "great" courses that he has long ceased REALLY LOOKING CLOSELY at them and just cuts another notch in the bedpost or check on the Top 100 list.

Not everyone, but many of the men I know who collect courses like Hugh Hefner collected women cannot recall many specifics a year later beyond bragging that they had been there and done that and have an Ashworth shirt to prove it.

These are the same people who will never notice a really cool Redan hole at the  local muni because the tee is barren or the bunkers need work. In other words, snobs. Not aesthetes, there is an enormous difference. Golf social climbers who have lost the ability to adjudge and appreciate that which is good on a bad course.

I am not saying that there is not something to learn every single time you  see a new  course, but what I am suggesting is that this quality becomes a rare commodity in those who eat nothing but caviar and drink only Chateau Rothschild.

How can you fully grasp and appreciate great film if you have not seen Chu Chu and the Philly Flash?

[THuckaby2]

These are the people who  won't take the time to play (or even walk out onto) the Portland course after playing Troon.

WHOOPS!  As a member of Santa Teresa Men's Golf Club, it would be hard to call me a snob... but... I am GUILTY of exactly this!  I played Troon Old but didn't even glance at the Portland.  Please grant dispensation though Sensei - I was so pissed at the crappy treatment I received from Sr. Monty that I couldn't wait to leave the place!

TH

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

Gib

Most of my last 4-5 visits to Troon were played over the Portland course, as my friend and host was getting on in years and didn't want to walk all the way out to the caravan site, and was too proud to cut over the to back nine at any of the possible places to do so on the Old course.

Troon Portland is a superb track.  If it were located near Southhampton we would be drooling to play it.  Someone, somewhere, disparaged the course a few weeks ago to the effect of ("what architect would even think of re-routing Troon to the fields to the east?")

He was wrong.  Very, very wrong.

[Evan Fleisher]

Here here, sir's Gib and Rich!!!

As Tom Huckaby can attest to, one of my best EVER golfing days (along with one of my best Scottish golfing days) was had at the Royal Troon courses.

After shooting a 3-over par 39 on the frontside of the Old Course (including my first ever Scottish birdie...on the Postage Stamp, no less!)...and I was playing to about a 13 handicap at the time...my best bud and I made our way over to the Portland Course for our afternoon round, sans yardage books and caddies.  It was just me, him, and the course.  After my third ever career eagle on the par-5 12th and waxing my buddy 7 & 6, I proceeded to hole out my bunker shot on 18 from the lefthand-greenside bunker for birdie.  I calmy walked over to the bench behind the green and counted up my strokes for a smooth 78...one of the lowest rounds of my life.

You are correct, Rich, the course offers some very interesting holes, and as good a test of links golf as anywhere else (just from a more modest perspective I'd say) but the course itself is never highly touted by anyone...and when we told others of our desire to play both courses at Troon, we were "poo poo'd" and told to go play Western Gailes instead.  i'm glad we stuck to our origin plans!  

[Jim_Bick]

I think it's very true that "collecting" increases the risk of shutting oneself off from the opportunity for great surprises, which can be a feature or a hole or two, if not an entire "hidden gem". I played Portland once and very much admired and enjoyed it. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have played except that the weather had been completely awful in the morning at Troon so paying extra for a second round didn't appeal to me. I also didn't feel like sitting in the bar with my companions for four hours more than our regular "several". So off I went to Portland where my memory is that I was one of only two players on both courses. The weather settled down and it's a special memory. For me, it's also a good check on getting carried away too far in the other direction.

Jim