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Jordan Caron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2011, 04:12:55 PM »
Unfortunately unless they actually get serious about assessing strokes for slow play, the answer is no.

It all comes down to this.  I like to play fast myself but that's just because the longer I take in my pre shot routine, the more I think which is not good.  Coaches can do as much as they want but this has to come from the PGA Tour because younger players (and even older ones) love to emulate what the guys on TV do. 

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2011, 06:05:30 PM »
Wishful thinking. But we can all hope that more emulate Rory's pace of play than that of Webb Simpson.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Kin Britton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2011, 09:34:15 PM »
We can only hope.  To an extent, I understand pros taking the time they do on a course they may only play once a year (plus what they have at stake).  What drives me nuts are players at my own club.  For example on our third hole it is a par 3 playing 195-210.  Some of these guys play it twice a week.  Still they insist on the laser.  It is one of two clubs in most cases...and like me, they absolutely do not have enough control to hit 195 vs. 200!

It was refreshing to see Rory have to wait on the group in front of him.  Most of the time, the final group has 1-2 holes open in front of them.  Nothing will change thsi except for penalty shots...and we'll never see this.

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2011, 01:49:15 AM »
If more and more tour players emulate Rory then maybe.  However there has to be a consistent, concise message everywhere that pace of play is important.

For instance tonight I played an excruciating 5:40 round, but nobody in my group even batted an eye.  It's considered normal to them, especially when playing a "nice" course.

At North Berwick a sign on the starter's hut stuck out to me - it said 3:30 maximum for 18 holes.  In the States players need to be reminded of pace when checking in and on the course.  Otherwise nothing will happen.  It's a shame because golf is such a great game and slow play really takes the fun out of it.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2011, 07:03:30 AM »
 ??? ::) ??
At my home club at the Jersey Shore the members have embraced brisk speed of play.  Rarely does a round take more than 3:45 even on weekends.    Everybody tries to stay in position and there is peer pressure from fellow members to stay up. 

We do have occasional issues with over exuberant "fast players" getting a little too pushy when it slows a bit. it's much harder to address at public courses where people tend to take real exception to prodding by rangers/ ambassadors (lol) who try to keep them moving.  it would be great to see the best players on tour speed up.

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2011, 12:15:04 PM »
If it were up to me, I would offer an incentive to my customers at public facilities:  "Play below the posted time for the facility and the 1st beer after the round in the clubhouse is on me."  Everyone likes something for nothing and if this promotes quick play, terrific.  Increased pace of play allows more groups to go off, more than offsetting the cost of tap beer given away for free.  the results are: happy customers, satisfied customers and potentially more $$ in the register for good old BK!.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2011, 01:23:56 PM »
If it were up to me, I would offer an incentive to my customers at public facilities:  "Play below the posted time for the facility and the 1st beer after the round in the clubhouse is on me."  Everyone likes something for nothing and if this promotes quick play, terrific.  Increased pace of play allows more groups to go off, more than offsetting the cost of tap beer given away for free.  the results are: happy customers, satisfied customers and potentially more $$ in the register for good old BK!.

Sounds good in concept,

But all it takes is one slow group that doesn't care about the free beer....then now you potentially have a myriad of 4 somes playing after that group who are all pissed about not getting their free beer afterwards!

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2011, 02:18:09 PM »
as we have with today's slow players?

Self- policing by the customer is not a bad idea; ohter options don't seem to help much.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2011, 02:27:18 PM »
as we have with today's slow players?

Self- policing by the customer is not a bad idea; ohter options don't seem to help much.

A few comments:

1) I don't think its the customers duty to police a public golf course.  It is clearly the course operators responsibility to ensure its customers have a good experience.  On a private course where everyone is a stakeholder, I can see this in part.

2)  I've seen a handful of self-policing scenarios get pretty testy/ugly and usually end up having the opposite result where one party just ends up calling the clubhouse...and someone has to come out anyways.

3)  I've also observed marshalling to be very effective at improving pace of play...especially when the marshall has good people skills and approaches the situation with a bit of care.

4)  While its true that maybe one group here and then may be offended by a marshall telling them to speed up, the course will likely lose even more loyal customers due to slow play and the course not doing something about it.

Brent Hutto

Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2011, 02:30:27 PM »
Different expectations of pace of play are already a source of contention and ill-will at public courses. Incentivizing one set of those expectations will do less to change the behavior of those who hold to the opposite expectation than it will add to the contention and ill-will involved. I wish it would work but unfortunately think it would cause more trouble than it causes.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2011, 03:36:59 PM »
It would certainly appear that Rory's style of play, quick and aggressive, is because he hasn't been corrupted by the US college system. I doubt that collegiate players say" coach, I'm slowwing down because Tiger does". They are instead following their coach's instructions of maintaining a consistent preshot routine and as Mark mentioned carefully weighing all the variables; unfortunately they don't start that practice until it's their turn to play. Our system also breeds extremely conservative play; the coachs don't allow their players to take any risks which could result in lost strokes and in turn negatively effect the Team score. It's little wonder that Americans have lost the edge and the foreigners are passing us by.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 03:39:41 PM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Brent Hutto

Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2011, 03:46:53 PM »
The reasoning behind modern slow play as taught at the elite level is circular.

One tenant of their belief system is that the first imperative, the #1 priority, is to completely reset your preparation for a shot to the very beginning if anything causes you to deviate from doing it in the usual way, if anything distracts or catches your attention or if anything within your field of view or hearing changes while you are engaged in "preparation".

Well given that, of course you can't start while someone else is hitting. Because that would mean doing your routine while somebody within eye or earshot of you is doing their thing. The potential for so-called distraction is oh so great.

This really becomes a problem when they extend their preparation further and further before the actual shot. I learned some of this from a now leading practitioner of golf psychology a good many years ago now. At that time it was also preached that you can be doing all the assessment of the lie and wind, choosing a club, practicing swings, anything except visualizing the shot, stepping up and hitting it prior to your "routine". Over time it appears to have evolved to where all those elements (damned near everything except walking from the tee to the fairway) is part of a single can-not-be-interrupted procedure.

Heck, I remember doing drills with a stopwatch. If I had not struck the ball within 16 seconds of reaching for the club in my golf bag the coach would say "Too Long". The whole idea was to make your "routine" something simple, committed, quick and continuous. Not sure when that definition got changed.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2011, 05:48:07 PM »
Pace of play seems to be mainly a public course issue, no? Do any of you play at privates that have a consistant POP problem?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2011, 07:33:50 PM »
Pace of play seems to be mainly a public course issue, no? Do any of you play at privates that have a consistant POP problem?

Rock Creek was simply awful.  We kept having to wait for Bambi and friends to cross the fairway!!  ;D

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2011, 02:32:44 AM »
Sean,

Its just not a problem because there are fewer people playing on any given day.  If you average one group teeing off every half hour, the group ahead has to play 18 holes a half hour slower than you for you to have to wait on them.  And with no one ahead of them and no one lined up behind you, and the fact you probably know each other (at least by acquaintance) they would probably have no issues letting you play through.

A group taking five hours isn't going to be a problem at most private courses, but bring them out to any course that's busy and their slow play most certainly is a problem.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

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