Is it time for Rees Jones to retire as the 'Open Doctor'?

[Ben Stephens]

Things change over time and golfers at the top level have raised standards every 20 or so years. I cant help feeling that Congressional was 'soft'. The greens were large enough targets and they were 'flattish' compared to others.

The bunkers werent 'effective' hazards they had very low lips in the fairways could not help thinking than it was more of a members course than a major championsip course. Wait til you see the ones at Sandwich!!

Olympic will be much more of a test next year as there is one one fairway bunker and the rough will be more effective as a hazard! As well as old fashioned small sloping greens.

Not to detract from a fine week golf of highest standard by a kid from Norn Iron! The other competitiors score were like as if it was a PGA tour event rather than a US Open.

Back to the main question - is it time that Rees hands over to others like Gil Hanse, GCA's Professor Emeritus or Bill + Ben?

Cheers
Ben

[Jonathan Cummings]

Check the schedule - this is likely the last US Open venue you'll see tweeked by Jones.  I believe he is retired.  JC

[MikeJones]

I thought it made a refreshing change that a missed tee shot didn't result in a hack out and the fairways were pretty generous by US Open standards at 28 yards or so.

The setup of the pin positions was almost Augusta like with the possibility to use a lot of the back and side slopes to move the ball towards the flag. The only thing that may have needed tweaking was the firmness of the greens, they had sub air systems so perhaps drawing a bit more of that moisture out might have been preferable.

You can't legislate for talent though and when someone like Rory or Tiger is really on their game they're going to kill any course. Look at Rory's destruction of Augusta, Quail Hollow and St Andrews in various rounds over the last year.

[Dan Herrmann]

Who's next?  Fazio?

[Ben Stephens]

Check the schedule - this is likely the last US Open venue you'll see tweeked by Jones.  I believe he is retired.  JC

Future Venues

2012 - Olympic (was it recently updated by Bill Love?)
2013 - Merion (tweaked by Faz)
2014 - Pinehurst No.2 (Bill and Ben)
2015 - Chambers Bay (One of the Jones boys!)
2016 - Oakmont (tweaked by Faz)
2017 - Erin Hills (Hurdzan+Fry)
2018 - Shinnecock Hills (leave it alone!)
2019 - Pebble Beach (Arnie)

Best chance Rees has for US Open is 2020! Hasnt he become the PGA Doctor rather than Open Doctor now? Atlanta Athletic Club this year, Baltusrol in 2016 and Bellerive in 2018!

Cheers
Ben

[Jeff_Brauer]

I was surprised that the "standard shot" was to hit it past the pin and back it up.  Not sure how much was due to wetness of greens.

I would also love to hear the supers here weigh in on the causes of the brown spots on nearly every green edge and collar. Did that look like some wicking between sand and clay layers?  Combo of traffic and drainage?  Or just too humid weather, etc.?

I don't know that it has more to do with design or age, but the changing of the guard probably is occurring in both players and designers for the US Open venues.  Or maybe just with the USGA changing of the guard, there should be a change in design philosophy - the Rees method produced the results that they wanted for years, but with a new set up philosophy, maybe there is just a mis match between that and design?

Or, maybe it was just the weather and great golf.

[Jay Flemma]

Check the schedule - this is likely the last US Open venue you'll see tweeked by Jones.  I believe he is retired.  JC

Yes, but now he's going to be the "PGA Physician."

The greens are actually quite good.  I didn't like the bunkering and there are a few week holes.  1 did nothing for me - boring opener - and 2-4 don't rrally grab you unless you like "just long and hard."  The course starts in earnest at 5.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jay,

As I watched the tourney yesterday I thought I could see the greens were good in concept.  I was surprised by the number of pins just below stair steps or near ridges, like 18.  Also by the number of backstop slopes that seemed to make the standard play over shooting the pin and backing it up, but that may have been the weather.  That single shot seemed to happen so much, I thought it made a good case for some reverse or side slope greens to break up the types of shots needed.

As much as I saw good in the design concepts, I agree that the bunkering seemed blah visually.  Like others, despite practicality, or whatever, just like to see more shape in the bunkers for the size they are.  Rees does do that many times (Bethpage) and it would be interesting to know what makes him go back to the simplified ovals after the critical success and overall attractiveness of the BP bunkers.

[Ian Andrew]

The style of greens feature so many compartments and are reinforced by so much greenside bunkering that it places a heavy emphasis on being long enough to be able to hit the trajectory of shots required to get into those areas. I think this style of architecture rewards length far more than any other skill. When you couple that with the length of the courses he creates with a renovation and we have a course built for the longest players to thrive.

corrected according to Jay's comments

[Jay Flemma]

His style of greens feature so many compartments and are reinforced by so much greenside bunkering that it places a heavy emphasis on being long enough to be able to hit the trajectory of shots required to get into those areas. I think Rees’s style of architecture rewards length far more than any other skill. When you couple that with the length of the courses he creates with a renovation and we have a course built for the longest players to thrive.

Ian, here's the surprise, the majority of greens Rees didn't even touch.  Rees showed remarkable restraint.  They are old school.  17 is a double plateau and 2 is a punchbowl with beautiful surrounds - right out of Garden City.

I have no problem with 10 as a hole, BTW.  I wish he got leeway to do a lot more like that.

[Bill_McBride]

His style of greens feature so many compartments and are reinforced by so much greenside bunkering that it places a heavy emphasis on being long enough to be able to hit the trajectory of shots required to get into those areas. I think Rees’s style of architecture rewards length far more than any other skill. When you couple that with the length of the courses he creates with a renovation and we have a course built for the longest players to thrive.

I have no problem with 10 as a hole, BTW.  I wish he got leeway to do a lot more like that.

10 was very cool with a six iron in hand and the pin in that bowl.

But at 214 yards not many of us mortals have that six iron shot!

[George Freeman]

2013 - Merion (tweaked by Faz)
2014 - Pinehurst No.2 (Bill and Ben)
2015 - Chambers Bay (One of the Jones boys!)
2016 - Oakmont (tweaked by Faz)
2017 - Erin Hills (Hurdzan+Fry)
2018 - Shinnecock Hills (leave it alone!)
2019 - Pebble Beach (Arnie)

On a side note, how good of a run is that!  Seven straight years of very interesting/intriguing venues.  I can't wait.

[Terry Lavin]

I can't say that I'm all that surprised to see some quick post-championship snark about Rees Jones, but the results of the event prove to me that a guy like Jones or Fazio cannot win hereabouts.    Pre-tournament, the grousing was all about the Jones "compartments" that were more or less forced onto some of the greens at Congressional and other re-do's of his.  The whining centered on how that work made the holes unnecessarily difficult and that it was somehow inconsistent with the design of the course.  Many predicted that the course would be needlessly penal as a result.  So what happened?  The course presented itself in a soft and vulnerable condition, the golfers went way low and now Jones will be shown the door because the course wasn't Open worthy.  And most of the complaints, of course, are from people who have never designed a backyard, astroturf putting green!

I'm no architect and I am a fan of more scruffy looking, deeper and steeper bunkers, but I thought the course presented itself quite well on television.  There are a bunch of holes where a pro could make double bogey, which is a bit of a standard for an event like the US Open.  I think the championship suffered a little bit because the course had already hosted tour events over the years and there wasn't the sort of mystery that gets attached to many venues.  Obviously the condition of the greens, attributable to the weather, didn't help matters either.  But I wouldn't blame Rees Jones.  He did what the customer wanted, even if the customer was driven by the USGA, which always seems to get its way, even if the blame usually goes elsewhere.

[Ian Andrew]

Ian, here's the surprise, the majority of greens Rees didn't even touch.  

I stand corrected

[Jay Flemma]

His style of greens feature so many compartments and are reinforced by so much greenside bunkering that it places a heavy emphasis on being long enough to be able to hit the trajectory of shots required to get into those areas. I think Rees’s style of architecture rewards length far more than any other skill. When you couple that with the length of the courses he creates with a renovation and we have a course built for the longest players to thrive.

I have no problem with 10 as a hole, BTW.  I wish he got leeway to do a lot more like that.

10 was very cool with a six iron in hand and the pin in that bowl.

But at 214 yards not many of us mortals have that six iron shot!

Mere mortals don't play it from 214...we play the proper tee box and enjoy our day.  We don;t bang our heads against a wall.

[Matthew Rose]

Did anyone know about this article beforehand?

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,2072127,00.html

[Jay Flemma]

Matthew...of course.  It was in Golf Magazine's U.S. Open preview.

[Paul Carey]

I am really confused.  Every green at Congressional is a Rees Jones creation.  He renovated the course completely before the 95 senior open and 97 open and redid the greens again a couple of years ago.  The routing is his father's plan (except 10) but the rest of the course is all Rees (18 is the same as Rtj sr.)

His style of greens feature so many compartments and are reinforced by so much greenside bunkering that it places a heavy emphasis on being long enough to be able to hit the trajectory of shots required to get into those areas. I think Rees’s style of architecture rewards length far more than any other skill. When you couple that with the length of the courses he creates with a renovation and we have a course built for the longest players to thrive.

Ian, here's the surprise, the majority of greens Rees didn't even touch.  Rees showed remarkable restraint.  They are old school.  17 is a double plateau and 2 is a punchbowl with beautiful surrounds - right out of Garden City.

I have no problem with 10 as a hole, BTW.  I wish he got leeway to do a lot more like that.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Things change over time and golfers at the top level have raised standards every 20 or so years. I cant help feeling that Congressional was 'soft'. The greens were large enough targets and they were 'flattish' compared to others.

If the greens are so "flattish", why did I see ball after ball rolling off a slope down toward different hole locations ?

The bunkers werent 'effective' hazards they had very low lips in the fairways could not help thinking than it was more of a members course than a major championsip course. Wait til you see the ones at Sandwich!!

Ben, what you forget is that when the USGA leaves CCC, the members have to go back to playing it.
Do you think they want deep fairway bunkers ?

What private course isn't a "member's" course ?

Olympic will be much more of a test next year as there is one one fairway bunker and the rough will be more effective as a hazard! As well as old fashioned small sloping greens.

The rough isn't an architectural feature, it's a maintainance feature.

As to Olympic next year, Mother Nature will probably dictate terms, as she does every year.

Not to detract from a fine week golf of highest standard by a kid from Norn Iron! The other competitiors score were like as if it was a PGA tour event rather than a US Open. 

Courses like CCC and Southern Hills are always at the mercy of Mother Nature.
The greens were soft and to the best players in the wolrd, that's like throwing darts.

Back to the main question - is it time that Rees hands over to others like Gil Hanse, GCA's Professor Emeritus or Bill + Ben?

It's NOT Rees's to hand over.
The host club picks their architect, not the USGA.

[Ben Stephens]

Things change over time and golfers at the top level have raised standards every 20 or so years. I cant help feeling that Congressional was 'soft'. The greens were large enough targets and they were 'flattish' compared to others.

If the greens are so "flattish", why did I see ball after ball rolling off a slope down toward different hole locations ?

The greens were more like shelves with ridges, slopes to flattish areas as opposed to tilted greens as see at Pebble. This made putting easier generally.  

The bunkers werent 'effective' hazards they had very low lips in the fairways could not help thinking than it was more of a members course than a major championsip course. Wait til you see the ones at Sandwich!!

Ben, what you forget is that when the USGA leaves CCC, the members have to go back to playing it.
Do you think they want deep fairway bunkers ?

What private course isn't a "member's" course ?

To me it looks like the priority was to be a members course rather than a major champioship course. Bunkers (mainly fairway ones) at CCC werent effective hazards wait til you see Sandwich! It is a private club that is a proper major championship course and bunkers there are half a shot or a full shot lost. I can't help feeling that CCC this year was more suited to a PGA tour event rather than a major championship whether the greens are firm or not. At Merion the bunkers are more effective hazards and the greens are harder.

Olympic will be much more of a test next year as there is one one fairway bunker and the rough will be more effective as a hazard! As well as old fashioned small sloping greens.

The rough isn't an architectural feature, it's a maintainance feature.

As to Olympic next year, Mother Nature will probably dictate terms, as she does every year.

Oh yeah they have to counteract not only the wind, dew but FOG!! At Olympic there is only one fairway bunker and the pros deliberatly planned where to miss fairways/greens so that they get a better lie in the bunker as opposed to the rough. That wont be the case at Olympic next year as they have to avoid trees and rough and aiming at narrower fairways it will be back to the US open set up of old.

Not to detract from a fine week golf of highest standard by a kid from Norn Iron! The other competitiors score were like as if it was a PGA tour event rather than a US Open. 

Courses like CCC and Southern Hills are always at the mercy of Mother Nature.
The greens were soft and to the best players in the wolrd, that's like throwing darts.

It shows that these courses don't have areas on the green where they can tuck or position the flag in difficult spots when the course is soft.

Back to the main question - is it time that Rees hands over to others like Gil Hanse, GCA's Professor Emeritus or Bill + Ben?

It's NOT Rees's to hand over.
The host club picks their architect, not the USGA.

Doesn't the USGA advise the club which course designers to go to? Rees has done some good and bad stuff it is time that others get a chance to work on a major championship course. We will see Bill Love's work with interest at Olympic next year.

Cheers
Ben