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Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Who designed this?
« on: January 26, 2002, 08:32:30 AM »

For those of you who have played it, hold your tounge...er...keyboard for a while.
The bunker on the left is as large as the putting surface.
It plays 152 from the back.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"chief sherpa"

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2002, 09:37:56 AM »
"The boys"? Strong influence of Thomas's bunkering at the Riv?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2002, 11:58:15 AM »
Pete,
  "Thee Boys" with the influence of Tillinghaust at Winged Foot West...according to Jeff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Rob Wilson

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2002, 04:39:39 PM »
I think it's Jay Morrish and Tom Weiskopf(not sure of the spelling) the hole is called "Tillie".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2002, 07:44:14 PM »
It might be Robert T Jones II, but I have no idea where this is.
Good luck with your upcoming hip surgery Pete. We have to get together and talk about the zone system some day during your recovery.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mike_Cirba

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2002, 07:58:23 PM »
Boy...for once I have no idea, but I sure LOVE what I see.

The bunkering, while reminiscent of Tillinghast's style, and the "convex" style of the Golden Age in general, is splendid.

They remind me of what the White Faces of Merion used to look like, with sand flashed up under the lips, or almost something akin to Royal Melbourne with their crisp appearance.

This isn't Barona Creek, is it?

Pete,

On a personal note, please accept my best wishes for successful hip surgery and a very speedy recovery.  I know that nothing is going to keep you off the course for long! :)  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2002, 08:12:36 PM »

Here's another from the same course. Par 4-443 yards.

Thanks for the wishes Ed and Mike.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"chief sherpa"

Mike_Cirba

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2002, 08:14:45 PM »
Schmidt and Curley's Goose Creek?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2002, 09:53:03 PM »
Mike,
Its not Barona Creek. I just played there a couple of weeks ago and the course is phenomenal. If you are in the San Diego area you should put it at the top of your list, you won't be disappointed.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Craig_Rokke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2002, 10:00:06 PM »
C&C, somewhere in the Southwest?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2002, 10:21:21 PM »

I believe those are the 13th and 15th holes at the under appreciated Talking Stick South.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2002, 11:49:51 PM »
It is indeed the 13th and 15th at Talking Stick South in Scottsdale, by Coore, Crenshaw and Associates ("The Boys," thanks RJ and Anthony).

For a couple more photos try the link:
http://pub11.bravenet.com/forum/fetch.php?id=9753125&usernum=889055085
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"chief sherpa"

TEPaul

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2002, 04:34:54 AM »
That's quite interesting you guys would identify those photos and remark that the bunkering was somewhat reminiscent of  Tillinghast.

I had no idea what course those photos were from and I've never seen Talking Stick but Coore once said what it was like working on that particular site and that project-and the 36 holes of it. Apparently the client's (the Indians tribe) instructions to Coore & Crenshaw were very minimal, simply to do two courses and make them different somehow. So they decided on one of the courses they would do some bunkering that was reminiscent of Tillinghast!

BTW, to me, the basic architectural lines on those photos are really good the way things blend and tie with the basic lines of that site! It's not that you can't see that they shaped features for golf--it's just that they tied them all together well!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2002, 05:37:16 AM »
So, THIS is the course I've heard some derisively call "just another resort course" on this Discussion Group???!@!  ::)

Hmmm..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2002, 05:53:04 AM »
Pete-  Recover quickly my friend. I'm glad to hear the surgery went well. I guess the golf rounds will be under 2 hours now :P


The search feature works well on the new site.

Here is what I wrote on January 1st about talking stick south.

I liked Talking Stick South quite a bit.  It is a very playable course with sound strategy and interest built into almost every hole.  Some holes are down right excellent.  

The greensites are a combination of Tillinghast style pushup above the level of the fairway (ala Winged Foot) combined with MacKenzie style fierce bunkering.  In this respect while less natural then the adjact North course they played perhaps better. The greensites at the North are extensions of the desert floor.

The strategies are sometimes simple. #1 challenge the fairway bunker on the right and the 2nd into the green can avoid going over the deep left side bunker at teh green.

#2 just the opposite. Bail out right and you have to deal with a righ greenside bunker.

#3 is downrigh excellent.  A 228  yard par three with great visual deception. The bunker on the right looks fierce and to be avoided at all costs.  It looks to be directly adjacent to the green but it is probably 30 yards short.  Bailing out over to that side also leaves an uphill pitch to the green.  Going to what appears visually to be the easier left side is avtually the more difficult place to play from if you miss.  Wonderful hole!

#4 327 yard par 4 with a central fairway bunker.  It is 220 to carry it or if you choose go left or right.  The green is bunkerless.   Bombs away if you choose.

#5  470 yard monster par 4 into the wind. Challenge the fairway bunkers on the right if you want a direct shot into the green.

I won't go over every hole but I'll mention #14, a par 5 (541 yards) that uses a desert ravine as a diagonal hazard . The green tilts from front right to back left in such a way that the choice of which side of the ravine to lay up on creates different length and different angles for the third shot. You can also bomb it off the tee to get a better possible angle into the green for a shot at it in two or you can lay up off the tee and still be able to cross the ravine on your 2nd for a short third into the green but at a poor angle.  Good hole.

#15 also creates an interesting line of charm towards the green in the distance but that requires messing with two sets of bunkers.  Better to just play away from the line of charm and the green off the tee.

#16 another excellent par 5 with a diagonal hazard except its a stream this time. Again playing the angles is interesting and fun.

TSS is not a great course but I would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone.  At 6800+ yards its good golf.

Pete any more pictures would be welcomed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:01 PM by -1 »

TEPaul

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2002, 05:56:02 AM »
Yep, this is one of those courses Mike!

I say that some of these C&C courses are perceived this way because they can be "minimalist" looking or at least quite low profile and many golfers look at them and think; "Where's the beef?"

I predict that Hidden Creek will be perceived this way (and maybe even the flatland section of Friar's Head!).

And I also predict that the "beef" will be on the results on the scorecard! Some of these holes may not look like all that much at first glance but there will be plenty there, I think--and what's there will show up on the scorecards!

It will probably be a bit like some of the best of Donald Ross where golfers quite often actually do hit good shots but seem confused by way they still make bogie or worse!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2002, 07:34:16 PM »
I saw these pictures last night and was quite interested how much the bunkers have been "Troon-ed" over the years.
They certainly have lost that Jeff Bradley rough and rugged feel to them.

I would also like to say how proud I am of some of you that commented on how good the course looked., and it just wasn'tbecause of the bunkering shapes either. Please notice how gently those green complexes rise out of the ground, and while it doesn't show everything in the pictures, I can assure you all that Talking Stick South is a worthy addition to the popular North.

Surprizing Mark Fine hasn't posted on this topic yet. After all, he is one of the negative voices of the South.

Great shots Pete.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

redanman (Guest)

Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2002, 02:54:40 PM »
Doncha ever dis dis course around the V brothers. ;)

Interesting Mr Cirba, that you thought of Tillie.  My impression of the south has always been a strong Winged Foot East feeling.

PeterG  Glad you're doing well, God knows you needed that surgery.  Just remember not to squat too deeply to line up putts in the future!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2002, 03:25:47 PM »
TE,

You hit the nail on the head there with your "Where's the beef?" comment.** When you drive into Talking Stick you see this course (TS South) on the right, and I assure you it looks very vanilla indeed. As fond as I am of TS North, I didn't pay it much attention--till this thread, that is. Guess TS South will be my "other" new play (along with Apache Stronghold) when I visit the Valley of the Sun this spring.

**When I read it quickly the first time I thought you'd said "Where's the beer?" which, I suppose, also could apply... ;)  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2002, 04:32:47 PM »
The surgery is Feb. 12th, thanks for all the thoughts.
The Dr. said I won't need to buy Pro V's anymore, I'll play better golf just being pain free. (wonder what that's like)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"chief sherpa"

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who designed this?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2002, 04:50:35 PM »
Pete, now you'll have to get to the airport another 1/2 hour early when they make you go through the metal detector several times, or naked! :o

I can't believe how long you have gutted it out.  You richly deserve a good result and pain free days for a change... 8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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