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Niall C

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Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« on: June 09, 2011, 02:48:10 PM »
James Boon's wonderful thread on Rosemount got me thinking, what is the best inland course in Scotland. Scotland's links tend to get all the credit and attention but there really are some very very good inland courses up north. If I hesitate to call them great its because I'm not sure I understand the true meaning of great any more. I think greatness should be something that is generally acknowledged but in the case of Scotlands inland courses (with a couple of obvious exceptions) they don't really get the recognition outside Scotland that makes them pass that test.

Anyway here's a few contenders for best inland course in Scotland;

Cawder
Dalmahoy
Duff House Royal
Downfield
Rosemount
East Renfrewshire
Elgin
Gleneagles (Kings)
Gleneagles (Queens)
Hamilton
The Roxburgh

Thoughts ?

Niall
 

Phil McDade

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2011, 03:10:26 PM »
Niall:

I think Braid's Boat of Garten needs to be on that list. Maybe not the single best inland course, but a very good one, even at its relatively short length. Scottish players I ran into during my trip abroad suggested it was one of the toughest inland courses they played.

Marty Bonnar

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2011, 03:44:52 PM »
Carnoustie? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

What a great Q. I'm finding it very hard to separate a wide number. I do have a special place in my heart for the King's, but it's far from perfect.
Ladybank must be up there somewhere too, but to my mind it's a tad boring compared to others.
Taymouth Castle has capabilities.
Loch Lomond? Pretty stupendous if a smidgin too much of an 'American', rather than a 'Scottish' 'experience'.

Boy, this is tough!

FBD.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 03:52:09 PM by Marty Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Dan Grossman

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2011, 04:06:24 PM »
I've played Gleneagles (Kings), Boat of Garten and Loch Lomond and would probably rank them in that order.  Loch Lomond is very very good, but I don't find that I hold a ton of affection for it given how un-Scottish it is.  Gleneagles and Boat of Garten, I absolutely loved.  Both are wonderfully natural and full of interest and quirk which is not surprising given that both are Braid designs.

Boat of Garten is a bit off the beaten path, although not that far if you are making your way from Cruden Bay to Dornoch.  Doak noted this in his book, but the fairways are mottled with small dimples (slightly larger than a serving platter) which create very interesting bounces.  You can stripe one down the fairway and watch it take a wild bounce into the rough. 

Here are pics of two of the par 3's...I can't remember exactly which ones.




Jim McCann

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2011, 04:47:22 PM »
Niall

Apart from Hamilton (which I haven't played) and Roxburghe (by far the most over rated course in Scotland)
I'd endorse your list of inland tracks as well worth taking the time and trouble to play.

Incidentally, I also know one or two golfers who prefer the Lansdowne at Blairgowrie to the Rosemount.

Don't forget too one of the most under rated of all inland courses in Scotland, the Hawkshill at Newmachar.

You'll find an excellent trio of inland courses are Spey Valley, Letham Grange (Old) and, best of all, St Andrews
Duke's - a wonderful test of golf with the best set of bunkers in the whole country.
 
I have soft spots for lower tier places like Lanark, Mortonhall, Forfar and Kilmacolm which are far from being the best
in the country but are fine layouts in their own right, nonetheless.

 

Phil McDade

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2011, 05:54:28 PM »
When I played the Boat back in 1999, it played to a par of 69 and an overall length of 5,866 yds. (It's now a par of 70 with a tough par 4 converted to a reachable par 5 on the back nine). But it was no pushover -- essentially carved out of a silver birch forest, the course is quite tight, and puts as much a premium on driving accuracy as any course I've played, because straying off the fairways by not a lot meant death in the jungle of birch trees. It also featured those rumbly, dimpled fairways -- very links-like, in the middle of the Cairngorms -- and greens that are both small and seem to shrug off the less-than-well-struck approach shot. Great variety in its par 4s as well, particularly the driveable 10th at 270 yds, the famous Gully 16th (which Doak noted in the CG), with a huge dip in the middle of the fairway, and a stout closer at 18 that plays uphill at 437 yds.

Sort of out-of-the-way, sort-of not -- it's just minutes off the A9, for those making the south-to-north journey in Scotland.

Pete Lavallee

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2011, 06:09:32 PM »
If there is an inland course better than The King's at Gleneagles, I sure would love to play it!
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Marty Bonnar

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2011, 06:11:03 PM »
If there is an inland course better than The King's at Gleneagles, I sure would love to play it!

Pete,
you have. It was called Muirfield! ;)
best,
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Michael Goldstein

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2011, 07:03:07 PM »
Boat of Garton is absolutely charming so is the Queens course.
Loch Lomond is pretty special albeit a bit of a culture shock.

Uniqueness goes to Balmoral...
@Pure_Golf

Mark Pearce

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2011, 07:15:16 PM »
FBD.

Taymouth Castle.  Really?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Pete Lavallee

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2011, 08:48:24 PM »
If there is an inland course better than The King's at Gleneagles, I sure would love to play it!

Pete,
you have. It was called Muirfield! ;)
best,
F.
FBD,

I have not yet had the opportunity to sully the grounds of the HCEG!  ;D
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Matt MacIver

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2011, 10:46:27 PM »
If there is an inland course better than The King's at Gleneagles, I sure would love to play it!

Seconded.  But I've only played Kings, no other inland courses but can think of precious few inland US courses I'd rather play on a regular basis than Kings.  Tobacco Road may have some parallels to Kings, but I think Kings wins hands-down. 

Gary Slatter

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2011, 11:55:05 PM »
my choices (this month):
1. King's
2. Spey Valley
3. Rosemount/Downfield
5. Duke's

Marty, is Panmure inland yet?   fun course, great clubhouse!
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

James Boon

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2011, 03:58:47 AM »
Niall,

I think my mentioning the Rosemount in my thread related to comments Finegan made in his Blasted Heaths... book. However, its certainly up there for me.

From courses I know, Blairgowrie's Rosemount, Gleneagles Kings, Ladybank and Spey Valley are all worth considering for the list, and there are a few others as well, but its interesting to think that I'm not sure many of them are in the class of some of England's inland courses  ;D

Marty,

I love Taymouth Castle but purely for sentimental reasons having spent many a pre Christmas family holiday in the village of Kenmore and walked the course, often covered in snow, probably formulating some of my first ideas of golf course architecture aka how could I make the course better  ::) I'm pretty certain that it doesn't belong in this discussion? Now if I were to write to them and make those long formulated suggestions...  ;)

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sev K-H Keil

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2011, 08:48:39 AM »
I recommend Strathpeffer Spa Golf Club --- it's quite worth the drive from Inverness or Dornoch...


Mark Pearce

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2011, 08:55:27 AM »
Didn't Peter Thompson make some outrageous claim for Downfield?  Best inland course in the UK or something similar?  It's a decent course but I'd probably rather play Ladybank.  I haven't played Rosemount but aim to this summer since we get reduced green fees as members of the Braid Association.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2011, 12:20:03 PM »
The Thomson quote I have (quoted by Peter Alliss in the Good Golf Guide) is: 'Downfield is one of the finest inland courses I've played on anywhere in the world. It's a tough, demanding test of golf amidst some of the most picturesque scenery - you have to be very long and straight off the tee to succeed here.'

Alliss did not gainsay him. He also made a strong case for Renfrew.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2011, 10:05:32 PM »
Of what I've seen it would be between Loch Lomond and Gleneagles (Kings) for mine.

How's the new revamped Dukes' course at St. Andrews ?


Keith Phillips

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2011, 10:35:21 PM »
1. Loch Lomond
2. Gleneagles - Kings
3. everything else

Whether LLGC is 'American' or 'Scottish', it is the best inland course in Scotland!

Niall C

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2011, 04:43:26 AM »
Niall

Apart from Hamilton (which I haven't played) and Roxburghe (by far the most over rated course in Scotland)
I'd endorse your list of inland tracks as well worth taking the time and trouble to play.

Incidentally, I also know one or two golfers who prefer the Lansdowne at Blairgowrie to the Rosemount.

Don't forget too one of the most under rated of all inland courses in Scotland, the Hawkshill at Newmachar.

You'll find an excellent trio of inland courses are Spey Valley, Letham Grange (Old) and, best of all, St Andrews
Duke's - a wonderful test of golf with the best set of bunkers in the whole country.
 
I have soft spots for lower tier places like Lanark, Mortonhall, Forfar and Kilmacolm which are far from being the best
in the country but are fine layouts in their own right, nonetheless.

 

Jim

As always when I post a question, it is usually off the cuff and not at all well thought out. After I came off the computer I immediately thought of quite a few others including some of those you mention. I knid of agree with your comments on the Roxburgh although I'm not sure its rated that highly anyway.

Dukes - I used to have a corparate ticket at the old Duke's and must have played it 20 plus times. A lot of good golf which goes some way towards making up for the farmland its laid out on. I had a look at the redo but haven't played it. It looked as though they simply redid the bunkers on a lot of holes, changing them from "links" to "heathland" without necessarily changing the strategy/routing of the hole. Of the new holes, they looked good, but then some of the ones they replaced were good as well.

Niall

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2011, 04:50:20 AM »
I liked the Dukes re-do a lot...

I think Tim Liddy's bunkering is some of the most intelligent I've seen on a modern course anywhere in Britain or Ireland...

Niall C

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2011, 04:59:37 AM »
Niall:

I think Braid's Boat of Garten needs to be on that list. Maybe not the single best inland course, but a very good one, even at its relatively short length. Scottish players I ran into during my trip abroad suggested it was one of the toughest inland courses they played.

Phil

Did you manage to play Granton-on Spey when you were in the rea. It looks a real treat with the same sort of heathland feel as the Boat. I did play it 20 odd years ago but was away on a stag at the time so my memory isn't quite a sharp on this one.

James

I'll ignore your blatant pro-England propaganda  :). Of the courses you mentioned, I would actually put the Queens ahead of the Kings at Gleneagles but wouldn't argue with anyone who thought otherwise, they are both top notch. Spey Valley we discussed on another thread. I would love to tweak the course to get rid of the silly mistakes which must have happened because the architect wasn't on site. If you did that I think you would have a really good course.

Ladybank - only played it once and they had planted a forest of christmas trees to seperate the fairways. If the club sold the timber rights then not only would they make a financial gain but they would get back the course they must have lost which must have been a cracker. As it is, I wouldn't rate it.

As an aside I went through Blairgowrie last night on the way home after a detour off the A9 which was closed due to an accident. Apart from being a detour I could well done without it did allow me to see again some fantastic countryside which just begs for some golfcourses to be laid out on it.

Niall

Niall C

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2011, 05:03:19 AM »
I liked the Dukes re-do a lot...

I think Tim Liddy's bunkering is some of the most intelligent I've seen on a modern course anywhere in Britain or Ireland...

Ally

Could you expand on the intelligent comment. Interested to hear your thoughts. To me it looked like window dressing in that the course is now the course is a kid on heathland where as before it was a kid on links. Not that that makes it bad course in whichever guise you've seen it in. But interested to hear why you think the bunkering is intelligent.

Thanks

Niall

Niall C

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Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2011, 05:09:21 AM »
Ally

Also on your best inland in England thread, you make the statement that Scotland doesn't have any heathland courses. Interested to know how you would describe a lot of the Highland courses in that regard. I'm thinking of the likes of Forres, Elgin, Granton, the Boat, Gleneagles etc.

Niall

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Best Inland Course in Scotland ?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2011, 06:04:27 AM »
1. Loch Lomond
2. Gleneagles - Kings
3. everything else

Whether LLGC is 'American' or 'Scottish', it is the best inland course in Scotland!

I am somewhat surprised at your choice. When has a 'hybrid' ever deserved such high praise? Yet each to their own, although in your defence I presume you have not played many of our 600 or so courses in our small but greatly suited golfing country.

Perhaps it somehow proves how we seem to accept second best or is it that we have forgotten what one made the game so popular that it burst out of a handful of clubs and went worldwide.

We accept second best so easily these days, just look at the rubbish printed on this site about templates. Christ, when these Holes and Courses were originally designed by the many great names of the past, they were designed for different balls and clubs. Today we see golfers driving the Greens, yet they do so more thanks to their equipment than their ability. Disagree then take a set of Hickory and Haskell and repeat the play, there is very little chance you will repeat your earlier score - proving that your performance is rated not by skill but by the high tech of your equipment. So take your Hickory clubs and enjoy LLGC, it may open your eyes to the reason golf expanded.

My apologies in advance in case you feel that I have embarrassed you with my comments.

Melvyn

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