[Ronald Montesano]

Byrncliff Resort and Conference Center (http://www.byrncliff.com) is located about ten miles east of East Aurora, NY, in Varysburg. Both are near Buffalo, a bit to the south east. The course runs some 6700 yards from tee to green from the way backs. Today, JNC, Kevin Lynch and I played 18 in the AM; those two went to Ironwood (a Scott Witter original) for the afternoon 18. Here is my best effort at a course thread.

Hole #1: a 380-ish par four to start, this one is driver-9 iron off a good drive. The rough on either side of the fairway is usually snarly enough to redirect the clubface a bit. The green is protected by an ever-growing creek in front and to the right side. The putting surface tilts toward the fairway and falls off slightly left, more so right.

Picture from Tee Deck


Picture from Fairway


Picture from behind Green, looking back to fairway


Hole #2: a shortish par five around 480, with a real opportunity to have a mid-short iron in for your second. A typical drive reaches the top or near the top of the slope and face a second shot of 210-240 yards. If your drive is strong enough to carry or bound over the slope, it might run down to the bottom on a dry day, leaving something in the neighborhood of 150 yards in. The fairway pinches in near the green with some native trees left and a creek on the right. The green is a two-tiered notion, with a back extension that was added ten years ago.

Picture from Tee Deck


Picture from Crest of Slope


Picture from Below Green In Fairway


Picture from Back of Green Toward Fairway(it was a morning of sun and shadows)

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole 3: Downhill par four, fairly straight, with a decided cant toward the right in the landing area. Position off the tee is the key, as you should have short iron into the green. Miss left or right and rough/trees will hamper your approach. The place to miss the green is short-center, as it has a ridge up the middle with much speed from back to front.

Picture from Tee Deck


Picture from Fairway


Picture from Back of Green



Hole 4: A mid-length, natural par three, this blind, uphill shot is one of the more classic and memorable holes on the course. Only an average green (greens were not Harries' strong suit) keeps it from being a world-class Dell hole.

Picture from Tee Deck


Picture from Back of Green

[Doug Wright]

Thanks for this Ron--good photos. I remember Byrncliff fondly from high school sectionals. Needless to say, it was a very young course back then (1970!). I recall the fairways were barely grown in and the greens had that firmness associated with new greens that haven't settled yet--I guess it was one of the few courses willing to let a horde of high schoolers chop it up.

I don't recall #1 having a creek in front of it, but it's only been 40 years. I do recall the opening holes were pretty benign, and that the back 9 was tougher. I'm interested in your take on the par 5 7th hole; back in the day it was simply a horrible hole. Looking at the website, it appears to have been changed and softened significantly (for the better). I'll comment more about #7 when you post photos on that hole.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole 5: Par Four dogleg left
The 5th hole was reworked about ten years ago by an in-house team. The fairway and green were moved up on a ridge, changing a benign par four into a terror. Measuring only 375 yards, the hole demands an absolutely precise drive to avoid the bunker on the left corner of the leftward-sloping fairway. Once landed, the drive must be followed by a second shot that negotiates an uphill approach to a leftward sloping green, guarded by a bunker on the left flank. All in all, a solid hole.

Photo from the Tee Deck-Fairway is to the right of quartet of trees on left of photo; old fairway is left of those trees



Photo of the left fairway bunker



Photo from Fairway



Photo from Back of Green




Hole 6: Par Four dogleg right
The sixth is a gambler's paradise. The hole plays about 350 yards by the dogleg, but only 280 yards from tee to green. The gambler must negotiate a mature stand of trees, seen on the right side of the first photo and fortified by a hungry creek. The conservative play is straight out with a hybrid or fairway metal, leaving a wedge in. If you see anything less than driver in Kevin Lynch's hand on this hole, it's a sure sign that aliens have taken over his body.

Photo from Tee Deck


Photo from Corner of Dogleg, with Hungry Creek visible


Photo from Fairway


Photo from Behind Green

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole 7: Par Five with S-Curves
This fine piece of par five (about 540 yards long) descends from a tee deck situated on a ledge, with a soothing, natural waterfall behind. An enormous tree used to occupy a portion of the left fairway in the drive zone...it died. The course replaced it with two round craters that serve as bunkers...not their finest moment. The leftward bend in the drive zone is followed by a rightward lean in the layup area for the second shot. A decent drive into the fairway offers an opportunity to carry the crossing creek and have inside of 50 yards for the third shot. The layup leaves anything from 150-120 yards in. The green is smallish, not bunkered, with an interesting back ledge, the finest of its kind. A solid par five, one of four noteworthy 3-shotters at the course.

From the Tee Deck


Second shot from Fairway (behind craters)


Second shot from right side of Fairway


Third shot from Layup Zone before creek


Shot from behind Green


Hole 8: Par three
175 yards from the tips, a perfect example of how to not muck with Mother Nature. Find a bench, put a green there, get out of Dodge City. No sand, just slope and elevation.

Photo from Tee Deck


Photo from behind Green

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole 9: dogleg right Par Four
Byrncliff never beats you up with the par four holes. If you can place your tee ball, you'll have a scoring club in your hand for the approach. We saw this on 1, 3, 5, 6 and now again on 9. Not long at all at some 380 yards, the hole moves from left to right around a stand of trees and a pond situated mostly out of play. No corner-cutting here; just bang it straight out, then hit your short iron into the green. No major breaks/undulations on the putting surface (just to remind you, it's a William Harries green.)

Photo from Tee Deck


Photo from Fairway (long angle)



Hole 10: Par Four
The most memorable hole since #3, ten is a downhill two-shotter to a ridge, then a downhill run to a stream and putting green. The hole measures some 420 yards but plays much less if you find the speed slot along the left-center of the short grass. Some years back, an enormous tree that guarded the left side of the green came down (you'll see the remnants in the photo), allowing a successful approach from either side of the fairway. The green has 2-3 levels (depending on your interpretation) and is a great place to have putting contests over beers in the twilight.

Photo from Tee Deck


Photo from Fairway


Photo from behind Green

[Kevin Lynch]

Time for me to jump in, since this is one of my favorite places to play in Western New York.  I'm always a sucker for courses with large amounts of vertical motion and uneven lies, and Byrncliff has this everywhere.  Ron's first several posts confirm the "flattening" effect of photography.  You throw in a number of heroic half-par opportunities, and I'm always looking forward to the 'Cliff.

For me, it doesn't get much better than playing Byrncliff in the Fall, when the foliage is in full color.  With a peak weekend walking fee of $33 (or even $15 / $10 in March-May / October-December), it's one of the best bargains you'll find.  It has its weaknesses (some benign greens and cart-path placement was not a primary concern), but the fun I have makes those things easy to overlook.

Byrncliff was one of my formative courses, and was the first "real course" where I was able to break 40 for 9 holes when I picked up the game (late starter at age 17).  It cultivated my bias towards quirk, elevation change, and risk-reward holes.

Hole 1:

I'm not surprised Doug doesn't remember the creek in front of #1 - it probably started as a drainage ditch 40 years ago and grew.  With the course situated at the bottom of a valley, the spring runoff comes from both directions and is causing some serious erosion issues in the last few years.  The creek on #1 spread another 20 feet in some areas, just this past offseason.

The first is a relatively tame starter to ease you into the round, with a potential for penalty if your first iron swing of the day is chunked.


Hole 2

If there is a "theme" I've picked up in the Harries / Tryon design philosophy, it is that they maximize the use of natural slopes in the drive landing areas.  Hit in 240 in the air, it may catch an upslope.  Hit it 250 and you may catch a flat spot or downslope for some speed slot yardage.  However, in a number of cases, if you go for the "speed slot" and just barely make it, you could end of with a wicked downhill/sidehill lie (on this hole, the difference between a 150 yard flat shot and a 175 yard 15 degree downhill lie is pretty small).

As Ron says, the "normal" second shot here is in the 210-230 range, downhill to a very large greensite carved into the hillside trees.  While this may sound easy, Ron left out one detail.  Even though there is a creek to the right, it is on the property boundary and staked as OB.

I love this tempting opportunity for Eagle so early in the round, and it is perfectly balanced with the threat of OB for a slight block, especially on your first long-iron/hybrid/FW Wood swing of the day.  The temptation is great, and there is no worse feeling in my mind than having doubt creep in and reaching for a short-iron to lay-up.

Hole 3

Another sloping drive landing area.  If you hug the high, left side of the fairway, the kick is more forward and leaves you a downhill approach.  As you move away from this ideal, the kick becomes more rightward and leaves a less favorable angle on the second.  Anything landing on the right half of the fairway will kick to the rough.

Above the hole can be scary (relative scale) for your first putt. 

You'll also notice our majestic Windmill Farms in the photo backgrounds, as Wyoming County is leading the "Green Energy" movement in Upstate New York.


Hole 4

Another natural setting greensite on a hilltop dell.  As I've said in a number of threads, I enjoy the "reveal" of a blind shot after ascending the hill.  As Ron said, could have been great with some interior contours, but still a pleasing hole.


I'll add some more later - my 6 y/o has lost his patience for "just a little longer."

[Doug Wright]

Re #7:  When I played Byrncliff 40 years ago, the tee shot on #7 was at a right angle to a tree/scrub brush and rough-infested extremely narrow corridor of fairway (probably around where the bunkers are now). From the tee there was really no aiming point. It could have made it a great "bite off what you can chew" tee shot; however, the margin for error was virtually nil.  Short or low drives caught the trees before the fairway; long shots went into trees/scrub/long grass. The trees one needed to carry were quite tall, and the scrub brush and long grass/rough on the both sides were brutal, routinely resulting in lost balls.  And then there was still the water hazard near the green to contend with. This hole caused play to grind to a halt during our high school sectional tournaments. An exquisitely bad golf hole.

The tee has been moved far to the right, there has been massive tree/scrub removal and despite the ugly bunkers the hole looks like it a real golf hole now. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole 11: Par Four
A slight dogleg left continues the theme of "No Plus-400 yard Par Fours." The bunker visible off the tee is a fairly easy carry (around 205 off the tee to clear) which allows you a good look at the green with your short iron in. The green is round and slightly undulated. If there is an antithesis to the "horizon green," this is it.

Photo from Tee Deck


Photo from Fairway



Hole 12: Par Three
The two one-shotters on the back are, sadly, similar and forgettable. Slightly downhill, slightly over 200 yards, a bunker front left. There used to be a 245-yard deck in play, which made the hole a bit more interesting. Now, it's identical to #16.

Photo from the Tee Deck

[Randy Thompson]

It´s in really good condition on what I am sure is a limited budget. Who designed it and what year did it open.

[Bill Hyde]

When I was living in BFLO, this was one of the places I played before joining a club. This area has very few worthy public tracks (well, maybe more now with the casinos and some Canadian spots), at that time it was Glen Oak, Whirlpool and not much else. Byrncliff was a little bit of a trek, but in a gorgeous setting and well maintained. It is extremely hilly, at the bottom of the largest, steepest hill on 20A as you head to the west. It has a glorified motel masqueraded as a conference center - the only conferences held here are ten foursomes with a half barrel and a bag of oregano! Fun course, not much to speak of architecturally other than if fullfills the most basic requirements I look for in a course: if it's fun and well-maintained I could play it every day (which in Varysburg, NY constitutes May 15- October 15.) Thanks for the memories Tricks.

[Ronald Montesano]

http://www.byrncliff.com/about/history.php

[Ronald Montesano]

And on we go...to the next fun part of the course...

Hole 13: Par Four
A 90 degree dogleg hole, this one goes out about 250 to the corner, although all you need is 200 to get to the 150 marker, as long as you play it far enough right to avoid the tree line (and the run-on sentences.) This is Kevin Lynch's second All-Or-Nothing hole, as he somehow found a notch in the trees that allows him to get close to the green (or on it) in one. The green is one of the best on the course, somewhat postage-stampy in its size, with a nice ridge that divides front from back.

Photo from Tee Deck (Kevin's notch can be seen on the far left.)


Photo from Left Corner of Fairway


Photo from Back of Green


Hole 14: Par Five
A grand hole, this right to left swinger goes out over the gorge to a left-canted fairway, then slides down and down until it reaches a dell-ish green site. It is a hole where pictures, rather than words, tell the story.

Photo from Tee Deck


Photo from Fairway Landing Zone


Photo from 2nd Fairway Landing Zone


Photo from Back of Green

[Kevin Lynch]

Hole 5: Par Four dogleg left
The 5th hole was reworked about ten years ago by an in-house team. The fairway and green were moved up on a ridge, changing a benign par four into a terror. Measuring only 375 yards, the hole demands an absolutely precise drive to avoid the bunker on the left corner of the leftward-sloping fairway. Once landed, the drive must be followed by a second shot that negotiates an uphill approach to a leftward sloping green, guarded by a bunker on the left flank. All in all, a solid hole.

This was a hole change that I hated at first, but have grown to appreciate over the years.  My initial resistance was solely due my youthful obsession with score, and I liked a 300 yard hole with little trouble for an ego boost.  The new hole required a bit more placement and even hitting less than Driver (the horror!)

Ron sold the length a little short (392), so the effective length is well north of 400.  There is a fairly wide landing area well right of the corner bunker, but the trade-off is 165+ yards straight uphill. If you flirt left, the fairway slope will funnel towards the bunker, so it had better be solid enough to get through the slope.  From the bunker, JNC hit one of the best shots I’ve seen live – the 150 yard hook from a deep bunker to the elevated green.

One of the trickier elements of this hole is that you may end of having a hanging lie on the far end of the dogleg.  Combine this with the “death-left” greensite, and you’d better have your nerve ready to commit to the right aim.  The leftward bunker isn’t so much a “guard” as it is a safety bunker to stop your pull from bounding well down the left hill.

Once on the green, there’s still plenty of work to be done.  Although it’s generally a single slope (right to left), the surrounding hillside will make you underestimate the severity.  I’ve seen 4 putts in 2-Man Scrambles on this green (usually involving a first putt off the green).  This is one of the more demanding holes you’ll find in WNY.

The sixth is a gambler's paradise. The hole plays about 350 yards by the dogleg, but only 280 yards from tee to green. The gambler must negotiate a mature stand of trees, seen on the right side of the first photo and fortified by a hungry creek. The conservative play is straight out with a hybrid or fairway metal, leaving a wedge in. If you see anything less than driver in Kevin Lynch's hand on this hole, it's a sure sign that aliens have taken over his body.

What can I say – the first time I played it, I cut the corner and ended up with a 10-15 yard pitch onto the green.  Unfortunately, over the years, I’ve failed to acknowledge that I’m getting older and the trees are getting taller.  Now, I need to aim more for the little “V” in the tree line to provide some “cushion”, but it’s still theoretically drivable.

The hole can be played many ways (one buddy used to hit 7-iron / 7 iron because he knew exactly where the tree gap was), and can bring in a wide range of numbers.

[Kevin Lynch]

It´s in really good condition on what I am sure is a limited budget. Who designed it and what year did it open.

Reposting Ron's link:
http://www.byrncliff.com/about/history.php

Not mentioned in the piece was William Harries, who collaborated with Russ Tryon on a number of Western New York's municipal courses (mid 50s-60s), but also designed several on his own in an earlier iteration of his career (e.g. Thendara back 9 / Brookfield).  In previous courses, Harries is generally credited as the "lead" architect, but I believe Byrncliff was the first where Tryon is credited as the "lead."  I have an old Buffalo News article that discusses Harries’ career and his "semi-retired" assistance at Byrncliff.

I've always been curious about the division of labor in this tandem's collaborations, as Byrncliff features several greens unlike any others I've seen on a Harries-lead design.  Ron & I will be asking the course if we could see its blueprint collections, as I'd love to see the evolution over the years (especially after hearing Doug's description of the early 7th).

With all the rain we’ve had, the grass was hearty.  Luckily, the rains held off for most of the previous week, allowing it to firm up a little.  Situated at the bottom of a valley, Byrncliff is never lacking for water in its ponds, so it stays in decent shape during the summer months.  They don’t go over the top in forcing perfect green, so you’ll still get some roll.  In the early spring / late fall, the rains will slow the course quite a bit (but for $15 at that point, I’m just happy to be playing).

[Kevin Lynch]

When I was living in BFLO, this was one of the places I played before joining a club. This area has very few worthy public tracks (well, maybe more now with the casinos and some Canadian spots), at that time it was Glen Oak, Whirlpool and not much else. Byrncliff was a little bit of a trek, but in a gorgeous setting and well maintained. It is extremely hilly, at the bottom of the largest, steepest hill on 20A as you head to the west. It has a glorified motel masqueraded as a conference center - the only conferences held here are ten foursomes with a half barrel and a bag of oregano! Fun course, not much to speak of architecturally other than if fullfills the most basic requirements I look for in a course: if it's fun and well-maintained I could play it every day (which in Varysburg, NY constitutes May 15- October 15.) Thanks for the memories Tricks.

Bill,

Don't sell our season that short.  Byrncliff is one of the first to open and the last to close. In 2010, I kicked off the season March 15th, and often play into mid-December (they won't close until the deep snow allows X-Country Skis).  Three or four years ago, the Buffalo News featured people in shorts and carts on New Year's Day at Byrncliff.

Can’t argue about the former dearth of public offerings, but I’d question putting Glen Oak in a tier above Byrncliff.  In the “10 round” test, it would be Byrncliff by 8-2 (but that’s due largely to my “elevation bias”, so Glen Oak does little for me).  Plus, for a Southtowns guy like me (Wales Center), Glen Oak is the “trek.”

[Kevin Lynch]

Re #7:  When I played Byrncliff 40 years ago, the tee shot on #7 was at a right angle to a tree/scrub brush and rough-infested extremely narrow corridor of fairway (probably around where the bunkers are now). From the tee there was really no aiming point. It could have made it a great "bite off what you can chew" tee shot; however, the margin for error was virtually nil.  Short or low drives caught the trees before the fairway; long shots went into trees/scrub/long grass. The trees one needed to carry were quite tall, and the scrub brush and long grass/rough on the both sides were brutal, routinely resulting in lost balls.  And then there was still the water hazard near the green to contend with. This hole caused play to grind to a halt during our high school sectional tournaments. An exquisitely bad golf hole.

The tee has been moved far to the right, there has been massive tree/scrub removal and despite the ugly bunkers the hole looks like it a real golf hole now. 

Number 7

I’m trying to fathom where the tee boxes were on #7 to have the shot you described (I first played there in 1988).  About the only place I can imagine is just to the left of #6 green.

Now, it does play as the “bite off what you can” tee shot you may have hoped for.  If you flare it off to the right, you’ll find your ball with little trouble.  However, it will likely be at knee level as you punch it down the fairway for your layup.  If it’s hooked, you will usually find it since they buried the portion of the stream that used to guard the landing area.

The “craters” were added several years ago, as a compromise for burying the creek that used to guard the left side and the loss of the corner tree.  If you can position yourself to the right of the 2nd bunker, you’re looking at 240 or less to a green that will allow a run up.  It is possible to carry the second bunker, which will then catch a little downslope and can leave you in the 190-220 range.

Again, there is temptation spiced with doubt at this point.  In the 210 yard range, the left side of the fairway slopes very gently from left to right, leaving the ball ever so slightly below your feet.  Why is that improtant?  Because the creek, after crossing the fairway in the 100 yard range, then turns and runs up the right side of the hole until around 20 yards short of the green.  This area is where a thinned hybrid will gravitate.

[Kevin Lynch]

Hole 8: Par three
175 yards from the tips, a perfect example of how to not muck with Mother Nature. Find a bench, put a green there, get out of Dodge City. No sand, just slope and elevation.

Couldn't have said it better.  Like #4, could have been so much better with some more internal contouring, but still a nice overall greensite.  First 10-15 feet is false front, so a number of "expected putts" turn into chips while you're making your way to the green.  Still, for a benign looking surface, there's enough slope to make things interesting in the 3-4 foot range.

[Kevin Lynch]

Hole 9: dogleg right Par Four
Byrncliff never beats you up with the par four holes. If you can place your tee ball, you'll have a scoring club in your hand for the approach. We saw this on 1, 3, 5, 6 and now again on 9. Not long at all at some 380 yards, the hole moves from left to right around a stand of trees and a pond situated mostly out of play. No corner-cutting here; just bang it straight out, then hit your short iron into the green. No major breaks/undulations on the putting surface (just to remind you, it's a William Harries green.)

Photo from Tee Deck

I think #5 may have slipped Ron’s mind when he made that first statement, or forgotten that the rest of us aren’t the efficient ball-striking machines he is (and #3 was still 425 yards).  And as we’ll see later, Byrncliff smacks you pretty hard on the Par Four 17th (but that really wasn’t by design, the scorecard was just changed from a Par 5 to a Par 4 one day).  But overall, Ron is correct that the course never really demands the long-iron / hybrid approach on its par fours.

Unfortunately, a few of the good reward design elements have been lost due to technology.  Number 9 is a pretty good example of this.

The flattening effect of the above photo notwithstanding, the fall and rise in the fairway is fairly decent on this hole.   The crest of the hill is around the 230-240 yard range.  Anything carrying short of that will smack into the “wall” and leave a blind, uphill approach.  However, if you can carry to the flat, you will receive significantly more roll and be looking down at the green.  In the days of persimmon & balata, getting out of the valley on the tee ball was a much less likely proposition, bringing more interest to the landing area slopes.  Unfortunately, there is no room to extend the tees on this hole, so the thrill of reaching the crest or not is lost on longer hitters.  On the bright side, I still see many blind approaches hit from below the crest by older friends and higher handicappers, so the initial elements aren’t completely lost (hickory tourney, anyone?)

And while the green may be lacking in significant internal contour, it plays much smaller than it appears.  In addition to a false front, there is also a little bit of a “false right” which will repel any pushes that aren’t a good 10 feet inside the fringe.

[Kevin Lynch]

Hole 10: Par Four
The most memorable hole since #3, ten is a downhill two-shotter to a ridge, then a downhill run to a stream and putting green. The hole measures some 420 yards but plays much less if you find the speed slot along the left-center of the short grass. Some years back, an enormous tree that guarded the left side of the green came down (you'll see the remnants in the photo), allowing a successful approach from either side of the fairway. The green has 2-3 levels (depending on your interpretation) and is a great place to have putting contests over beers in the twilight.

Photo from behind Green

Number 10 – 390 yards
Alas, the greatness of this hole has been hurt by the double-whammy of technology and lightning.

If you look at the above picture, you will note that the ridge runs diagonally across the fairway.  Thus, catching the hill was much easier down the left side of the fairway (say 220 yards) than down the right side (say 250 or so yards).  Also, the left side was much more open if you happened to pull your shot.

Until several years ago, there was a significant price to be paid for playing down the safer left-side.  An immense tree (old stump just before the creek) used to guard the left half of the green for any approach coming from the left side of the hole.  Even if the pin was right, any shot from the left rough ran the risk of catching a limb and being deposited in the creek if it was pulled slightly.  The ideal tee shot, especially to a left pin, was to hug the right side of the fairway (risking the few lone trees in the right rough). Unfortunately, lightning claimed the specimen tree, and removed much of the decision making from the tee shot.

Also, the distance to the ridge (220L-250R) was very interesting in the days of persimmon/balata.  Often times, the ridge would come into play on the approach.  The slope wasn’t so steep that you would be guaranteed a run all the way to the bottom just by reaching the crest.  The result was a number of downhill/sidehill lies in the 120-150 yard range.  The creek short of the green swallowed many heavy approaches from these awkward lies, so you had to decide if you wanted to stay on top of the ridge for the longer, yet flatter, approach.

Like on #9, longer hitters will easily reach the lower, flat tiers of the fairway, and without the need to negotiate a specimen tree, much of the original strategy has been lost.  However, in wetter and windier conditions, the uneven lies do come back into play.

Still, even with the loss of the tree, there is much to enjoy on this hole.  If you happen to go long on your approach, either by overcompensating for your fear of the creek or by attacking one of the back pin plateaus, you will be faced with a very delicate pitch to a green that slopes heavily from back-to-front.  Second pitches are not uncommon at all from behind the green.

******************
Time to call it a day on this one.  Looking forward to any thoughts or questions.

[Ronald Montesano]

This is my first crack at a photo thread and I am much obliged to Mr. Lynch for his follow-up commentary. He knows this course well beyond my words and could wax poetic and philosophic for hours on the merits of Byrncliff. I understand what Bill Hyde is saying regarding Glen Oak, Whirlpool and not much else. I have an opinion piece up (http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/?p=618) of the top 25 publics in Buffalo-Niagara and in reviewing it, note that the top 5 courses all post-date Bill's time in WNY, #6 was even farther out than Byrncliff for Bill and has undergone a very efficient and enlightening redesign and # 7 post-dates again. I left the Canadian courses out of my list, so Whirlpool (Stanley Thompson) does not figure into my rankings.

It seems to me that Glen Oak is the home to a series of neo-template holes, designs created by the diggers of the 1950s and 1960s. The short par three over angled water that goes right up to the green, a la Golden Bell at Augusta, is present at GO, as is the longer par three with a pond, like #16 at ANGC. Holes that move around big bodies of water are found aplenty at Glen Oak, so if that isn't your cup of tea, you may not like the course. For scenery and topography, Byrncliff has it in spades over Glen Oak, while the latter benefits from less influence/hindrance from Mama Nature. Glen Oak has more of the heroic shots yet also checks in with more duds than Byrncliff. That seems to be the consistent theme of the courses slotted 8-10 in my humble ranking: they have just enough dud holes (usually 2-3 per nine) to interrupt the flow of interest, keeping them out of my top seven.

I suggested to Kevin that I try to shoot from the ground up at Byrncliff, to minimize the flattening effect of the camera. If anyone knows of any photographic tricks that preserve topography, please let me know. I trust my Canon and would like to present future courses as faithfully as possible in this type of thread.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole 15: Par 4.5
15 and 17 play as the beloved half-shot holes. 15 plays less than expected while 17 goes the other way. Let me qualify that: 15 should play less than normal if you negotiate the drive. From the photo, the three lower rolls in the fairway are evident. A solid drive aims at the cart path, ground-fades back to center (there is a hidden pond right in the drive zone) and leaves a hybrid to mid-iron in to the green. The green sits over and below the ridge in the distance, blind in a deep declivity, with plenty of aiming targets for alignment's sake. A fronting creek was piped under the fairway 10-15 years ago but, rather than leave well enough alone, management replaced the creek with a cheap and easy bunker, rather than a regraded run-up of interest...so that sucks. No shocker on the putting surface, which occupies a piece of terrain that should lend itself to funk.

Photo from Tee Deck


Zoomed-In photo from Tee Deck


Photo from Fairway, just shy of optimal drive zone


Photo from Fairway, back toward Tee Deck


Photo from Top of Ridge, looking down on Green


Photo from Behind Green



Hole 16: Par Three
If this photo were taken from a tee deck (and not the 13th green) this would be an interesting hole. Instead, the tee decks are at green level, so the hole plays similar to its twin, #12.

Photo from Above Tee Decks

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole 17: Par 4.5
This one is a conundrum, or at least presents one. To begin, you can't tell where to go from the tips. It then follows that you shouldn't actually go where you're supposed to go. Hit a good one straight out into the fairway belly and you run through into a pond...nice reward for excellence. There is a deck some forty yards right of the regular tees, on the far side of the pond, that makes the tee ball a straighter, more obvious affair. The apparent answer to move the tees back isn't it, as you would then have a massive downhill slope right in the resting zone of the tee ball. To wit, the proper tee ball goes over the trees on the inside (left) corner of the hole. The approach is then played uphill with anything from mid-iron to hybrid, to a nicely-sited green. This one borders on interesting, thanks to the topography.

Photo from the Tee Deck (where am I going again?)


Photo from Fairway (aim at the two silos.)


Green from Left Side of Fairway, about 80 yards out


Photo from behind Green


Hole 18: par four
A tough drive for the finishing hole. The fairway goes out to the left, as the trees short and straightaway obscure a sizeable pond. From the blues, a carry of 240 is necessary to reach dry land (JNC hit it 240.1 in the air). Aim left...if you hit it left, you might reach the rough. If you hit it straight or fade it, you end up in the fairway. Approach shot comes in with a short iron to an unbunkered green with fall offs and little internal movement.

Photo from Tee Deck


Photo from beyond short trees, revealing Pond


Photo from dorsal side of KLynch and JNC Lyon


Photo from Landing Zone


Photo from behind Green

[JNC Lyon]

Thanks to Kevin L for hosting on Monday, and I finally got to play with the two legendary Buffalo GCAers.

Byrncliff is a course I knew very little about until the other day.  Driving through Western New York farmland on Route 20 to get there, I was not thrilled with the land.  Then, turning South to go through Attica (site of an infamous prison riot at the state pen), the land changed drastically, merging into the long, narrow North-South valleys that define the Southern Tier from Jamestown to the Catskills.  Byrncliff slides back and forth across one of these valleys, and it contains some dramatic golf because of it.

One of my favorite features at Byrncliff was the collection of benched, hillside greens at holes 2, 4, 5, 8, and 13.  The first, and arguably the most dramatic, comes at the par five second, with a giant two-tiered green hidden back in the forest.  The 2nd hole, with its roller coaster layout, is the first of four phenomenal par fives at Byrncliff.  Most bargain-basement public courses fall short on the par fives, but Byrncliff has one of the strongest sets I've seen in quite some time.  The 7th hole plays down a narrow valley and features two centerline bunkers and a creek at the perfect second-shot interval.  14, as Ron says, is a grand hole, which uses no bunkers and instead relies on the sweep of the terrain.  It's one of those holes where the architect used plenty of fairway to take advantage of dramatic land, leading to a very fun succession of shots.  Finally, 15 is another rolly-poly affair that ends in a brilliant Dell green site.

Byrncliff also has a Trent Jones component to it, using sharp doglegs to create heroic and conservative options on the short par fours.  Holes 6, 13, 18 all offer the possibility for fireworks off the tee, but they also can lure the golfer into backfiring and taking a big number.  Byrncliff should follow the example of an Upstate New York Trent Jones course, Seven Oaks, and take down a few trees on these holes to open views of the green.  However, these holes all require decision-making with the use of very simple architectural features.

Holes 3 and 10 are also of tremendous note as good par fours.  3 has a thrilling downhill tee shot where the golfer needs to stay on the high side of the fairway.  10, as Ron and Kevin outlined, is a very solid par four with wild terrain in the landing area and completely unique green.  The green has three tiers, each shaped in a V and offset from one another.  I didn't play the hole with the tree in front of the green, but I can't imagine the loss of the tree has taken away too much from this first-rate green complex.

Like many public courses, Byrncliff has its clunker holes.  The first 8 holes are exciting, but the course is uneven from there on out.  9 and 11, 12, and 16 are vanilla bland, and 17 is a very strange long par four with a blind pond in the landing area.  These five holes greatly diminish the overall quality of the golf course, but it remains a very solid public layout.  As a group, we felt Byrncliff fits into a 4-5 range on the Doak Scale, and it's definitely worth a play (especially at the price!) if you are traveling down I-90 in Western New York.

[Ronald Montesano]

It was our pleasure to play golf with JNC (double the pleasure for KL, as he went 36 with the lad.) He is quite insightful and authentic in what he sees, says and does. I encourage all to make an effort to golf-hook up with JNC at some point. Just make sure to point out drainage ditches and don't let him go conservative on you...bang that driver, boy!

It's a rum thing, but we have a few courses here in WNY whose par fives outshine their par threes by miles and miles...Byrncliff, obvs and Harvest Hill, a new Hurdzan in Orchard Park. It must be challenging to say, damn, this is a fine par five, but I have to sacrifice a par three to get it, and then do it four times. However, with less good land available these days, that may be what some chose to do.

Byrncliff has more land and has discussed for years about adding a third nine. I hope that they would retain Scott Witter to do it, as I really don't trust anyone else in WNY and I don't know that folks would travel here for a nine-hole commission.

Back to the course:  I wonder how many par three holes have been saved by marvelous greens? I'm thinking of the two boring shorties on the back nine...before I'd sink my money into a new nine, I'd take a look at those holes and figure out what I could do to make those greens pop...not in a Dove Mountain way, mind you, but more along the lines of Travis light.

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