Wisconsin golf tour: Erin Hills/Lawsonia/Blackwolf/Whistling (URLs fixed!)

[Phil McDade]

George:

The prevailing summer (and thus US Am and US Open) wind here is out of the west, or southwest, so #2 will likely play into the wind. Maybe moving the tee up will make more players consider the bold play over the right-hand mound.

One criticism I have of the layout is that the stretch of #s 2, 3 and 4 all generally go in the same direction, into the prevailing summer wind (as does #15, another solid short, gambling par 4).

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

Other than 6 no longer being a dell hole, are there any other drastic changes to the course?  (1 looks fairly altered as well IIRC).

I didn't see the bye hole in the routing, is that gone as well?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

Other than 6 no longer being a dell hole, are there any other drastic changes to the course?  (1 looks fairly altered as well IIRC).

I didn't see the bye hole in the routing, is that gone as well?

I'm hoping others that have played it many times can comment on these recent changes.  But there are more, but uncertain if they would be labeled drastic.  Hmmm, well, wait, yes, the 10th hole is a very long par 4 now and no longer a super-long par 5 with a Biarritz green.  That I would call drastic!

I think I heard the 'extra' bye hole is now bye-bye.   

[Tim Gavrich]

The course looks very interesting; with Chambers Bay (two courses built in this century), it'll be quite an aesthetic change from what we're used to seeing from US Opens.

About the rough on the banks above the bunkers: is it thick enough that some balls will hang up in the rough, or will they almost always roll down into the sand?  If the former, does that look to be the USGA's intention?

[George Freeman]

Joe,

Other than 6 no longer being a dell hole, are there any other drastic changes to the course?  (1 looks fairly altered as well IIRC).

I didn't see the bye hole in the routing, is that gone as well?

Kalen - As you said, the Dell Hole was removed (you now hit over the old greensite from the 7th tee; the bell is still there).  The original bye hole is now the par 3 ninth.

I'm not sure about everything that happened at #1, but I'm pretty sure there was an alternate fairway up top, there was a large tree fronting the green (short and left), and some of the bunkers have been moved around a couple times.

[Phil McDade]

Not to sideline Joe's thread (which is excellent!), but I posted this rather extensive thread last fall on EH that, by linking to even more earlier threads of EH back to its inception, tried to detail some of the extensive changes at the course, many at the direction of the USGA.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45966.0.html

Holes notably changed on the front nine include #1 (tree, fairway), #2 (green mainly), #3 (expanded green), #4 (relocated green site), #5 (fairway moved left), and #7 (combining parts of the NLE Dell hole and a previous par 4). I'll pipe up about changes on the back nine once Joe has posted.

I'd highly recommended those curious about the evolution of the course check out this link:

http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/Wisconsin/Erin%20Hills/index.html

from the excellent golfarchitecturepictures website. This is the course in its earliest incarnation; the differences are notable.

[Mark McKeever]

Looks awesome Joe!  Can't wait to see the rest.

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

Not to sideline Joe's thread (which is excellent!), but I posted this rather extensive thread last fall on EH that, by linking to even more earlier threads of EH back to its inception, tried to detail some of the extensive changes at the course, many at the direction of the USGA.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45966.0.html

Holes notably changed on the front nine include #1 (tree, fairway), #2 (green mainly), #3 (expanded green), #4 (relocated green site), #5 (fairway moved left), and #7 (combining parts of the NLE Dell hole and a previous par 4). I'll pipe up about changes on the back nine once Joe has posted.

I'd highly recommended those curious about the evolution of the course check out this link:

http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/Wisconsin/Erin%20Hills/index.html

from the excellent golfarchitecturepictures website. This is the course in its earliest incarnation; the differences are notable.

Thanks for those links Phil.

I'm going to ask Frank Pont to add my 2011 EH photos to his site, labeled as such so visitors can see the evolution of the course.

[John Shimony]

Joe, what does it feel like to be the best golf course profiler in the whole world?

[Joe Bausch]

 

#10.  Par 5.  This hole has changed.  It is now a very long par 4 instead of a long 5 with a Biarritz green.  Web site hole description:

This plateau fairway is plenty wide. The safe line off tee is up left side to avoid two hidden kettle holes on the right. If tee shot is played down the right side, the ball can kick down the back of the plateau, gaining another 50 yards. The green runs narrow from front left to back right. Make sure to look to the west from the green to view the “Heart of Erin.”



Somewhat blind tee shot:



The fw here, like on many other holes, is generous:



Approach shot view:



Another good pin this day on the higher tier to the right as this pic from the left of the green shows:



Looking back from over the green:



Then looking behind the current green you can still see remants of the previous Biarritz:



#11.  Par 4.  Hole description:

The goal from every tee is to land on or carry the spine of fairway on right. From there, the green is fully visible. Tee shots to the left may find a lower section of fairway, but only the flag is visible from there.



From the middle tees:



From the beginning of the fw:



From short and left of the green:



From over the green:



Right of the green on the way to the neat par 4 11th!



#12.  Par 4.  One of my faves at EH.  Hole description:

Try to land your drive atop the plateau, letting the far slope roll the ball downhill for extra distance. Shots to the tiny natural saddle green should favor the left, as hillside left will feed balls onto the putting surface.



From the middle tees, a blind tee shot:



The 'S' shaped downhill fw starts to give a glimpse of the green after scaling the hill:

From the middle tees:



Good drive leaves a view like this:



Looking back to the top of the hill:



From short of the green:



From over the green:

[Joe Bausch]

#13.  Par 3.  Web site description:

At first glance, it looks like a big, deep green with plenty of bailout right, yet the green is a plateau, so recovery shots from the right will be difficult. In addition, there is a deep swale in the left center of the green that will push balls left into the big bunker. Don’t ignore the very nasty little pot bunker front left. Safe play is back center of green.



Middle tees view:



From just short of the green:



From just over the green:



From long and left of the green:



The view from the 14th tee box:



#14.  Par 5.  Hole description:

This hole looks and plays a little differently from every tee. A drive between right and center fairway bunkers can cut yardage off if you then go for the elevated green in two. Take note of the broad false front. The more conventional three-shot route down left side brings big bunkers on left into play, as well as wetland kettle holes and a high glacial ridge. Play third shots to back left of green, as it flows downhill from there.



View from the green tees:



These bunkers can't really be challenged from the back tees, but can be from the middle tees:



The green is obscured on some lines by this large mound:



Gotta get farther left in the fw for the approach shot:



It is very interesting around this green:



From a hill over the green:



#15.  Par 4.  Hole description:

It's decision time. If downwind, take a crack at the perched green if you feel confident of carrying the tall fescues. If you’re playing safe, lie back to avoid fairway bunkers leaving a short approach to the elevated green site. Your work is not done when reaching the green, as the putting surface is small and undulated.



View from the green tees:



An approach shot view:



Some interesting bunkering:



This bunker right of the green is not a place to be:



From the back of the green:

[PCCraig]

I thought 14 was a pretty poorly designed hole, in that for a normal (non-PGA Tour level) golfer, I see little or no reason to go for the green in two even though it was supposed to be a risk/reward par-5.

However, I think #15 is an awesome hole and probably my favorite on the course.

[Joe Bausch]

I thought 14 was a pretty poorly designed hole, in that for a normal (non-PGA Tour level) golfer, I see little or no reason to go for the green in two even though it was supposed to be a risk/reward par-5.

Can you elaborate further? 

I only had one play there and carried the bunkers off the tee as we had a helping breeze to have about 180 in.  Tried to smoke a 6 iron but was rejected by the upslope to the green and trickled down below just short. 

Once I saw how the area was up close, it looked like a fun shot in.  And all the short area around the green gives plenty of third shot options (which I kept on the ground with a utility wood and made my only bird of the day).

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

I think 14 and 15 are pretty interesting holes.  When I initially saw the card diagram for #14 I thought the green was to the right of that greenside bunker.  How devious would that be?    For a reachable par 5 I think it would make things interesting as an approach shot from the left after a 2nd shot layup would then be really tough.

[Mark Smolens]

Is 15 the green that had the volcano in the middle of it? i think it is, and it looks as if it's no longer there -- good riddance.

[PCCraig]

I thought 14 was a pretty poorly designed hole, in that for a normal (non-PGA Tour level) golfer, I see little or no reason to go for the green in two even though it was supposed to be a risk/reward par-5.

Can you elaborate further? 

I only had one play there and carried the bunkers off the tee as we had a helping breeze to have about 180 in.  Tried to smoke a 6 iron but was rejected by the upslope to the green and trickled down below just short. 

Once I saw how the area was up close, it looked like a fun shot in.  And all the short area around the green gives plenty of third shot options (which I kept on the ground with a utility wood and made my only bird of the day).

Sorry if you already mentioned this Joe, but what tees did you play?

When I was there last August, I hit driver out towards the bunker and was left with 260-280 left to the green. I could of tried to hit a 3-wood at the green, but with the target being so hard to hit and hold and there being as much trouble around the green I thought the alternative of hitting a iron 2nd shot leaving a 90 yard SW gave me a better chance at a birdie. (Sorry for the run on sentence )

Again, maybe it's me or the tees that I played, but I thought the risk was far too great to ever seriously consider going for the green from around that bunker for anyone other than a Tour level golfer.

[Phil McDade]

Pat:

I'll play devil's advocate here. That's a pretty major backstop on 14 behind the green; can't you see the long-hitting Amateurs and pros taking a whack at that, knowing that if they are long, it's an up-and-down from back behind the green? Maybe not the easiest up-and-down, but that slope behind the green is so severe that I can see balls coming back off the backstop and even on to the green. Your thoughts?

And just how many folks do you think will try to drive the green on 15? The length of the hole -- and that severely elevated tee (I think the highest point on the course) -- are surely meant to tempt players into going for it. But you pretty much have to hit the thing on the fly -- note the severity of the slope leading up to it -- and the green's not enormous (bigger than most, but not huge). I worry a bit that the risk on that hole doesn't necessarily equal the reward -- my recollection from the Mid-Am qualifying round last year was lots of safety clubs to the fairway, and wedges/short irons into the green. Again -- your thoughts?

[Brendan Dolan]

Here is a picture of mother nature's version of the 2nd green.

<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/brdolan/?action=view&amp;current=2ndGreen-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/brdolan/2ndGreen-1.jpg" border="0" alt="2nd Green Eh"></a>

Interesting to see how much the place has changed since 2007.  Tons of tree removal.  I am looking forward to seeing it this summer at the US Am.

Brendan

[Joe Bausch]

I thought 14 was a pretty poorly designed hole, in that for a normal (non-PGA Tour level) golfer, I see little or no reason to go for the green in two even though it was supposed to be a risk/reward par-5.

Can you elaborate further? 

I only had one play there and carried the bunkers off the tee as we had a helping breeze to have about 180 in.  Tried to smoke a 6 iron but was rejected by the upslope to the green and trickled down below just short. 

Once I saw how the area was up close, it looked like a fun shot in.  And all the short area around the green gives plenty of third shot options (which I kept on the ground with a utility wood and made my only bird of the day).

Sorry if you already mentioned this Joe, but what tees did you play?

When I was there last August, I hit driver out towards the bunker and was left with 260-280 left to the green. I could of tried to hit a 3-wood at the green, but with the target being so hard to hit and hold and there being as much trouble around the green I thought the alternative of hitting a iron 2nd shot leaving a 90 yard SW gave me a better chance at a birdie. (Sorry for the run on sentence )

Again, maybe it's me or the tees that I played, but I thought the risk was far too great to ever seriously consider going for the green from around that bunker for anyone other than a Tour level golfer.

I played this hole from the 505 yards tee.  You might have been back at the next, almost 75 yards farther.  A much different hole from there.

[Joe Bausch]

Time to finish up the Erin Hills photo tour.

#16.  Slightly uphill par 3.  Web site description:

This can be our most forgiving par three as the green, fashioned from a natural kettle, may gather some offline shots. However, hidden bunkers from the tee will capture many others that are not so lucky. There is a hidden pot hole short of the surface, narrow bunkers left, deep bunkers short right, a deep bunker back right, and a ridge that bisects the putting surface, creating two distinct levels.



From the middle tee box:



The pin was on the back tier and my caddy said he's never seen anybody behind the hole when the hole is cut there.  Well, after a well struck 4 iron I told him from now on he'll have to say 'rarely' instead. 



From over the green:



#17.  Blind tee shot on this bunkerless par 4.  Web site description:

A partial drumlin may block views of green from the left sections of fairway, so tee shot should be played as close to the sentinel oak on the right as you dare. The approach should favor left side of green to avoid deep collection areas on the right. Blind shots over the drumlin could well bounce onto green. The putting surface is receptive and relatively flat. Once on, you'll have a welcomed opportunity at rolling in a putt.



Middle tee box view:



Approach shot view:



From just short of the green:



The very undulating fw:



From the back of the green:



Look at the bunkerless green on the way to the 18th tee box:



#18.  We head back to the clubhouse with a long par 5.  Hole description:

The experience concludes with one last test of discipline and shot-making. If playing away from the left bunker off tee, be aware that more bunkers lie in wait to the right. Keep your second shot short or right of center target bunker, as the fairway slopes left into deep rough. Play approach to right center of peninsula-like green, as front and left edges drop off quickly.



View from 620 yard tee box:



From the tee shot landing area:



Another:



A good second shot, IMO, takes you out to the right of this centerline bunker:



To leave a 3rd shot view like this:



From the left edge of the green looking back down the fairway:



View from left of the green with #9 green and #10 fairway in the background:



I hope you enjoyed the tour of the 'new and improved' Erin Hills.  Perhaps I'll bump this thread when the US Am nears later in the year.

If you wish to view all 148 photos in my album of Erin Hills, go here:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/ErinHills/index.html

[David Harshbarger]

First, great photos and a great thread, thanks.

Second, the bunkers on 4, among others seem much more vertically aligned with the length of the hole than horizontally aligned.  I mean they seem to guard against mishits in direction  across a range of distances as opposed to mishits in distance across a range of directions.  Is that how they impact play?

Third, this is a stunning course, and looks like a real winner.  Kudos to Mike Davis for opening up the USGA to this venue.  I hope they get the wind and at least one slate gray day like this one.

Dave

[George Freeman]

I thought 14 was a pretty poorly designed hole, in that for a normal (non-PGA Tour level) golfer, I see little or no reason to go for the green in two even though it was supposed to be a risk/reward par-5.

However, I think #15 is an awesome hole and probably my favorite on the course.

Pat - I think if you play the hole from a yardage that makes it reachable in two (or nearly), it is a pretty interesting hole.  

The thing I didn't like about the hole was the lack of space to hit your drive.  The two fairway bunkers pretty much eat up all the fairway right where you would want to land your ball.  This aspect could be completely fixed if they maintained the ground behind the big fairway bunker on the left of the hole as short grass (behind the bunker on the left in the second picture of the hole).  That way, you could play aggressively over the bunker to leave a shorter 2nd in, or play straight down the fairway but have to stay short or steer clear of the two center-line bunkers.

I think the green complex is one of the better ones on the course.  Tons of cool movement.

[cary lichtenstein]

My hats off to a brillantly designed golf course, just wish I could play it

[Joe Bausch]

I will bump this thread as the US Am approaches.

My next photo tour will not be the 2nd course I played on my trip, which was Lawsonia, as Dan Moore and others have done such a nice job documenting it. 

I played Lawsonia early the next morning after Erin Hills.  I loved the atmosphere of the place.  I thought I had arrived earlier enough to be the first group off (6:15 AM), but one group was out there and a threesome of regulars were on the tee.  They happily allowed me to go ahead of them and said the guys in the first group will let me through on two.  Sort of funny that on the 4th hole, the Redan inspired par 3, I see a cart come up behind the green as well as one fellow walking... and they sure looked like the threesome that was 2nd off.  And it was!  They already got frustrated with the slowness of the first group and saw I was playing quickly and asked if we could play as a foursome.  I was more than happy to and we zipped around in 3h 10 m.  Man was that good old-fashioned ready golf and I had a blast.  The morning was dreary and a bit rainy so some of my photos are lousy.  But I still took plenty and built an album.  If you wish to view them, go here:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Lawsonia/index.html

After the Lawsonia round I jumped back in the rental to get over to Kohler for a round at the River course at 1 PM. Plenty of time to spare. 

Well, Blackwolf Run River is really neat.  When time permits, I'll start a photo tour of that course.  Stay tuned.   

[Cliff Hamm]

Joe...does your lack of commentary on Lawsonia indicate it was not up to expectations?  Curious as to your impressions and thoughts...