St. Andrews Beach - Gunnamatta Course: A Pictorial!!! (All holes posted)

[Scott Warren]

I dunno, Mark. We had a back pin on the 7th and trying to chase one up to the back tier was one of the most interesting and enjoyable mid-iron shots on the course.

[Tom_Doak]

The back shelf on #7 is pretty much exactly what we found when we started there.  We knew it was going to be a tough shot to it, and ideally it would have been a bit lower, but we decided to use what we had instead of changing it significantly.

[Scott Warren]

Another look at the 6th:


The 7th green:

[Ben Stephens]

Here is my take on Hole 7 - could not belive how wide the fairway was at first glance but realised there were many areas to place the ball depending on the flag position on the green. If the the flag was at back left it was better to hit the right side of the fairway to take the left greenside bunker out of the equation (unless the shot is pulled or hooked!)


Tee shot


'Fried egg' greenside bunker with another stump in the middle


Front of green


Looking back to fairway


View from 8th tee

[David_Elvins]

In my experience 1,17,7 and 18 have more birdies, and 1, 4, 7 and 13 are definitely easier to putt on.

The great thing about threads like these is the ability to share individual experiences, because the course never plays the same for everyone. 

eg.  Seven is definitely a birdie hole to the front pin but virtually never a birdie hole to theback pin.  I have played it to a back pin a disproportionate number of times and assume you have done the opposite.  If I had played 7 ,ore to the front pin, then I think i would say that it is an easier hole than 5. But at the same time, I have seen plenty of birdies to all pins at 5 (the last two times I have been down there, the hole has been halved in birdie.)

Likewise, if you think 4 is an easy green to putt on then and the right hand bunkers are not death, then you have probably played the hole with a left hand pin more often than not.  The right hand pins here are, IMO, the hardest to putt to on the course.  The slope around the cup is extreme and being under the hole generally means being down the little tier. 

After this thread, we should get down there for another game. 

[David_Elvins]

RE: The 6th

Mike Cocking mentioned the poor vegetation on 3 and 4 but I think that 6 suffers more than most.   The bunkers short right of the green were beautifully shaped (see below) but a lot of that is lost with the vegetation.  The shrubs and bushes growing on the greenside lip are clearly ridiculous and should be removed immediately.  

The second photo is from several years ago, they have grown considerably since, as can be seen in other photos on this thread.  





the 6th is a pretty solid hole but I think it works much better to a left pin than a right pin whih is very hard to get to due to the large front to back slope ofthe right side of the green.  I wonder whether it was intended to be more possible to work a ball of the back slope to get ot this pin?  

[Mark_F]

The great thing about threads like these is the ability to share individual experiences, because the course never plays the same for everyone.

Agreed - it has been that way since day one, which is I guess one of the reasons it is so polarising. 

Seven is definitely a birdie hole to the front pin but virtually never a birdie hole to theback pin.  I have played it to a back pin a disproportionate number of times and assume you have done the opposite.  If I had played 7 ,ore to the front pin, then I think i would say that it is an easier hole than 5. But at the same time, I have seen plenty of birdies to all pins at 5 (the last two times I have been down there, the hole has been halved in birdie.)

The pin was never at the back of seven much when I was a member.  It is difficult to get to the top tier obviously, but a very simple putt if you can get it up there. I am surprised you have the experience on five that you have, but that could also be dependent on the pin position.  If it is back left it is a pretty easy putt.  It was always the one green whose pin positions frustrated me, because they varied the least of any green.

Likewise, if you think 4 is an easy green to putt on then and the right hand bunkers are not death, then you have probably played the hole with a left hand pin more often than not.  The right hand pins here are, IMO, the hardest to putt to on the course.  The slope around the cup is extreme and being under the hole generally means being down the little tier. 

No, I agree the right hand bunkers aren't that friendly, but the bigger danger is that a miss right may be wide of them, which is really gone. Probably played a fairly even set of pins, if it is on the right and you are left, it is uphill, and there is more contour there than you realise, but I still reckon it is a much easier green to putt than five.  The slope on five from right to left and back to front must be four feet? 

After this thread, we should get down there for another game. 

Definitely - I will put my tape measure in the car now, so we can measure those green to tee walks, and get the definitive answer on the width of the landing zones on 13.

RE: The 6th

Mike Cocking mentioned the poor vegetation on 3 and 4 but I think that 6 suffers more than most.   The bunkers short right of the green were beautifully shaped (see below) but a lot of that is lost with the vegetation.  The shrubs and bushes growing on the greenside lip are clearly ridiculous and should be removed immediately.  

Agreed.  I was going to say this too, but couldn't find a nude image of the 6th bunker.  Just complete rubbish what they have put there.

The 6th is a pretty solid hole but I think it works much better to a left pin than a right pin whih is very hard to get to due to the large front to back slope of the right side of the green.  I wonder whether it was intended to be more possible to work a ball of the back slope to get ot this pin?

6 works quite well in making a good set of par threes rather than being a standout in its own right.  The 4th and 11th have more decisions to make in regard to choices and shots and a wider variety of pin positions that influence these. 6 is a bit more simple, but it is a pity they never pinned the front crown enough.  It is a fantastic shot to there, and the long miss means a horrible putt that looks as if you are aiming off the edge of the world.

[David_Elvins]

Definitely - I will put my tape measure in the car now, so we can measure those green to tee walks, and get the definitive answer on the width of the landing zones on 13.

THat reminds me, I found my spreadsheet with the green to tee walks:

1   45
2   162
3   56
4   47
5   100
6   43
7   41
8   80
9   41
10   94
11   54
12   55
13   122
14   46
15   106
16   25
17   96

[David_Elvins]

The back shelf on #7 is pretty much exactly what we found when we started there.  We knew it was going to be a tough shot to it, and ideally it would have been a bit lower, but we decided to use what we had instead of changing it significantly.

Tom,

What would you have considered the pros and cons for 'using what you found' vs 'modifying to get what you wanted'? 

[Kevin Pallier]

I dont mind #6 and felt the centreline hazard on #7 and #8 was a good touch.

Interesting that both #8 and #9 are unbumkered at their respective greensites.

[David_Elvins]

Interesting that both #8 and #9 are unbumkered at their respective greensites.

There are a bunker or two right of the 9th green.  But in general you raise an interesting point.  Like Barnbougle, there is a scarcity of greenside bunkers at St Andrews Beach.  No hole other than maybe 11, is bunkered left and right at the green. 

[Matthew Mollica]

I wonder if the Super and his staff have an album of the course as it appeared early on.
Or some sort of visual baseline to refer to, especially in the management of flora around bunkers and greens.
Some of those images of the course in it's infancy are great but very very different to what's on the ground today.

re: 7 - I like the approach from the right when the pin is at the front, on the lower level.
Easier to feed the ball to the hole, and less likely to end up with a downhill putt IMO.

MM

[Mike_Clayton]

Matt,

I may be wrong - but I think the course is being maintained by a contractor.
To me that means they see their role as maintaining the grass.
They are not greenkeepers in the mould of Claude Crockford, the Grant brothers or Ian Todd at Victoria who understand that their role was, or is, to maintain everything inside the fence.
If nothing is done the course will be so overgrown within ten years it will be impossible to get it back to where it was - which is where it should be.
I doubt they even see the problem - let alone how to go about fixing it. The look from the 14th tee is the most obvious example of negligence because anyone with any sort of eye can see how that horrible bush has blocked the view of the right of the hole.

[Kyle Henderson]

Though connected to the 7th, the 322-meter 8th is a much different hole. A big blast past the centerline bunker will offer the best view of the flag on the approach, though many will prefer to stay back and play a full wedge shot that bites into the green upon impact


This is a view of the short approach afforded to players that can place their tee ball well down the fairway.  I find it is visually reminiscent of a short approach at the 1st hole, playing to a green semi-blind green set in a raised saddle.

[Scott Warren]

Easy hole, right John?!

[Bryan Izatt]

Yet another change in direction.  This course seems to be the antithesis of an out and back links routing. 

Could this hole conceivably be called a bottle hole.  It narrows down the further you drive the ball.  I'm not sure about the big blast pas the centerline bunker.  It's less than a 200 yard carry and downhill.  The hole is only around 370 yards max.

[Ben Stephens]

Here is my take of Hole 8 - it was playing into a headwind to a semi blind green - I was just outside Tucky's ball and missed the damn putt!


Tee shot


Fairway bunker looking towards 7th green


Undulating fairway - green just in view in background


Another one for Tucky - Oz wildlife

Cheers
Ben

[Rob Swift]

First of all let me say I worked on the Gunnamatta course from about half way through construction, and into course maintenance for about two years.  I have played the course probably more than 50 times. I have missed the first 7 holes of this thread, but hope I can have an input from now on.

I couldn't agree more with past posts on the vegetation of the course, it has the potential to get out of control without the right ongoing practices.

As for the 8th hole, I always found it alot easier to play the approach shot from on top of the tier before the deep valley approx 120m from the green. The shot from well below the green in the valley is an awkward distance (60-70m) and the couch down there was always alot thicker and harder to play a crisp chip from.

The 8th has one of the smallest greens on the course (approx 320m2) but sometimes you can use the surround on the right to feed the ball back onto the green.

[Mike_Cocking]

Hi Rob,

I remember Tom and Brian (Slawnik) spending quite a bit of time on that little plateau - increasing it slightly and flattening it a touch so that it became more of a legitimate shot to aim for this spot (and have the ball hold there).  Its certianly a much easier pitch from this location but by no means easy to finish there - for me its a 2 or 3 in 10 shot.

Mike.

[Kyle Henderson]

The 9th hole switches tack once again, taking golfers 339 meters to another green set in a raised bowl.


A drive that finishes near this bunker complex will yield a simple pitch to pins set in the lower rear section of the green. However, on this day, the pin was set on a small upper tier at the right/front corner of the green.


A peek at the 9th green from the right (the 10th tee).

[Scott Warren]

Funnilyy enough, when we played this hole into a slight wind, David Kelly and I both felt we hit fairly good drives up the RHS, only to find we were hitting 4i for our second shot. What say the locals? Is there a slope up there that kills the roll?

From the tee and the DZ, this loks like a green that will gather from everywhere. When you get up close you realise it doesn't really gather from anywhere!

[Bryan Izatt]

Strangely, this hole doesn't resonate in my memory.  The approach to the green looks pretty neat.  I would have played it into the wind, but I don't remember it playing long.  It's clearly downhill off the tee and most of the way to the green.  The rise up to the green is no more than 10 to 15 feet according to Google Earth.

[Rob Swift]

The 9th has one of the best green complexes on the course, I think if you can hit a big drive down the left side towards the fairway bunker, it gave me the best angle into a great green. If the pin is up the back I always thought I had a few different options to get the ball close, either by going straight at it or trying to use the steep slope right of the green to bring the ball back.

If the pin was up the front higher portion of the green things were a little tougher, a miss to the left wasn't a bad miss as you had a couple of different shots you could play back up the slope to the pin. I used the bank on the right of the green as a little safety buffer to insure I didn't leave it short and have the ball roll back to my feet.

[Robin_Hiseman]

In a week in which I played NSW, Royal Sydney, RM West, Metropolitan and Huntingdale, St. Andrews Beach was far and away my favourite course.  It is just what I like from a golf course.  Rugged, natural, spacious, endlessly strategic and completely away from it all.

I played the course with Brian Phillips and Mick Henderson (who works with Tony Cashmore) having stolen away from the main party of the joint Australian, American and European architects tour of Australia.  We sneaked away from an afternoon of lectures at Metropolitan and drove down the Mornington Peninsula definitely more excited about playing StAB than anywhere else.  It was deserted...and ridiculously cheap.  $20 I think?  We lost out to the fading light after 16 holes, but it was enough to see that this was a very special course, which at that time had only just reopened, so was still in a rough state, both physically and financially.  I think that rather added to the mystique of the experience, thinking that this may be a course that could soon return to nature.  I ferevently hope that is not going to be the case.

The highlight for me was the tee shot on 7.  There is just so much space!  I could have stood there for hours happily blasting tee shots.  Another highlight was my recovery shot from deep down in the ferocious bunker to the right of 6.  It might just be the best bunker shot i've ever played.  Brian captured it on film, but i've never seen the picture.  Brian.  If you read this, please send me a copy, or post it up here.  I holed the par putt too.

I remember Brian being pretty irate about the blind tee shot on 13.  He hit a pretty good one but it hit the side of the hogsback and was lost in the gunch.  A bit of a lottery we thought.

It's the kind of course I could happily play for ever.

[Rob Swift]

Well said Robin, I think the 13th tee shot will get mixed reviews