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Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« on: May 27, 2011, 02:31:35 PM »
Occurred to me after reading Ran's writeup on Royal Hague.

Most of the courses where the European Tour plays seem pretty pedestrian.  I guess you could say the same thing about the PGA Tour.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 02:48:19 PM »
TOC or RCD
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 02:49:54 PM by Kalen Braley »
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Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2011, 02:48:59 PM »
My guess is Morfontaine, or one of the Dutch links courses.  Haven't played any, though.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2011, 04:09:08 PM »
My own choice (based on limited experience) would be Morfontaine at #1 and De Pan at #2.

I've had good friends who are very well-traveled nominate St. Germain, Royal Hague, and Royal Zoute.  I have seen the latter two and think both are very good.

Of course, the magazine rankings in Europe are vastly different.  Most of them seem to go for Valderrama or Les Bordes or another modern course which spends too much on maintenance.
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Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2011, 04:42:51 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on May 27, 2011, 02:48:19 PM
TOC or RCD

Continental courses,  hombre... U.K courses are disqualified
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2011, 05:01:13 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Henderson on May 27, 2011, 04:42:51 PM
Quote from: Kalen Braley on May 27, 2011, 02:48:19 PM
TOC or RCD

Continental courses,  hombre... U.K courses are disqualified

Every reference I can find to "European Continent" includes the UK!   It could be he meant to exclude certain parts of the European Continent!   ;)

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eu.htm





« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 05:03:10 PM by Kalen Braley »
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2011, 05:02:45 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Henderson on May 27, 2011, 04:42:51 PM
Quote from: Kalen Braley on May 27, 2011, 02:48:19 PM
TOC or RCD

Continental courses,  hombre... U.K courses are disqualified

O Pedantry, thy name is Bonnar...

Kyle,
the European Continent ≠ Continental Europe. The UK is not only part of the European continent, it is THE pre-eminent country therein. ;)

best,
The European Malcontent.
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Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2011, 05:04:02 PM »
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on May 27, 2011, 05:02:45 PM
Quote from: Kyle Henderson on May 27, 2011, 04:42:51 PM
Quote from: Kalen Braley on May 27, 2011, 02:48:19 PM
TOC or RCD

Continental courses,  hombre... U.K courses are disqualified

O Pedantry, thy name is Bonnar...

Kyle,
the European Continent ≠ Continental Europe. The UK is not only part of the European continent, it is THE pre-eminent country therein. ;)

best,
FBD.

Amen Marty...

I will stand with RCD and TOC!!  ;D
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2011, 05:06:51 PM »
Thus, if he wishes to his question to relate to the European mainland, Mr Benedict should rephrase to 'Continental Europe'

best,
The European Incontinent.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Shane Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2011, 05:13:24 PM »
How far is Royal Zoute from Brussels?  Do they have a similar visitors' policy as what is typical at "private" courses in the UK?

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Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2011, 05:19:45 PM »
I am torn between Morfontaine and Royal Hague. Valderrama is a great club, but I don't love the course as much. I haven't seen El Saler, which has long been considered a candidate, but I'm led to believe in its current state it would struggle to compete. Pan is lovely, a perfect members' course, but it's a step below the very best IMO.
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2011, 05:38:18 PM »
Morfontaine, Fontainbleau and The Hague are my favourites.
No one I know in Britain thinks of it as a part of continental Europe.
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2011, 05:42:45 PM »
According to GD, in 2009, the top 3 are:

G. de Morfontaine
Valderrama G.C
Les Bordes

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/golf-courses/2009-05/100greatestinternational_golfcourses?currentPage=2
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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2011, 09:10:16 PM »
G. de Morfontaine is an absolute joy, not the the most stringent test but as near to a Cypress experience as you could wish for.

Bob
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Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2011, 09:42:16 PM »
From the limited exposure I have had in continental Europe, I would nominate PGA Catalunya and Oitavos Dunes.  I was somewhat underwhelmed by Valderrama (especially on a value per dollar basis!).
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Stuart Hallett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2011, 02:26:00 AM »
Morfontaine, Fontainbleau & Chantilly all have the potential to get the vote. Just wonderful sites & great architecture on sand.
St-Germain deserves a mention as an authentic Colt masterpiece, albeit on a flat piece of land and heavy soils.   
There are other sites in France, old & new, that could pinch the spotlight.
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Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2011, 02:48:48 AM »
First tier:  Royal Hague*, Morfontaine, Kennemer*, Falkenstein
Second tier: Pan*, Fontainebleau*, Noordwijk, Royal Zoute, Royal Spa*, Chantilly, Eindhoven*, Falsterbo, Halmstad
Third tier: Valderama, Hilversum, St. Germain, Les Bordes, Le Touquet Mer, Hardelot, Royal Antwerpen, Chiberta

I yet have to see Bundersand, Oitavos and Catalunya in person
(for full disclosure, I'm associated with courses with a *).
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2011, 03:34:20 AM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on May 27, 2011, 02:48:19 PM
TOC or RCD

Kalen

Read Continental Europe as the same as Continental US.  I think this is what was intended.

I don't know which are best, but I am most interested in Royal Hague, Morfontaine, Falkenstein & Royal Zoute.

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 03:38:06 AM by Sean Arble »
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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2011, 03:38:43 AM »
FBD,

If you want to be truly pedantic, the UK is not a country, its four members are.
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Alfonso Erhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2011, 05:27:51 AM »
I agree with Morfontaine at the top.

El Saler should also be somewhere up in the top tier. Maintenance is improving as the greenkeepers of the Spanish Federation have taken over with a view to the Spanish Open 2013.

Others to note: Oitavos, Neguri, Chiberta, Puerta de Hierro, Sotogrande, Chantilly (in no particular order)

Still missing a visit to Benelux courses though; maybe this summer.
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Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2011, 07:38:25 AM »
I meant Continental Europe  I assumed the reference to Royal Hague would have made that clear.  Perhaps I should have said European Union since Britain is not a member.
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Michiel Teeling

Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2011, 07:59:06 AM »
I am surprised Royal Golf Club de Belgique (Ravenstein) is not mentioned.

Is this beautiful course overlooked?
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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2011, 08:07:36 AM »
When did Britain leave the EU, Phil?

They may not use the European currency, but they're every bit an EU member.

In any case, I think everyone understand what you were getting at: Europe sans GB&I.
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Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2011, 08:46:06 AM »
Scott,

My mistake.  How 'bout best course in the euro region?
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Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the Best Course on the European Continent?
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2011, 01:18:58 PM »
Quote from: Alfonso Erhardt on May 28, 2011, 05:27:51 AM
I agree with Morfontaine at the top.

El Saler should also be somewhere up in the top tier. Maintenance is improving as the greenkeepers of the Spanish Federation have taken over with a view to the Spanish Open 2013.

Others to note: Oitavos, Neguri, Chiberta, Puerta de Hierro, Sotogrande, Chantilly (in no particular order)

Still missing a visit to Benelux courses though; maybe this summer.

El saler is very good with some truly exceptional holes, but I felt it also had too many pedestrian holes to be considered among the greatest.  I certainly preferred oitavos to it.
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