[Patrick_Mucci]

There is an absolutely spectacular picture, probably taken 60-80 years ago, that appears in the MGA Calendar of Competitions, in the June section.

If someone could post it, it would make for interesting discussion.

In particular, the kick plate, along with thoughts on how to get to that back left hole location.

This has to be one of the HARDEST Redans in existance.

The IKE Amateur will be held there this year.

There's also a great picture of the 15th green and 16th hole at Sleepy Hollow, taken in the mid 20's.
Sleepy Hollow is a terrific CBM course, opened in 1911, about the same time CBM was working on Merion  

The MET Open will be played there this year.

[Ed Oden]

Pat, it doesn't look like the picture you are referring to is in the online version.  So I can't help with that.  But here are a few taken on an overcast day last summer:









A great hole and a great course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ed,

Thanks for photos.

Wow, what a difference between the MGA photo and your photos.

No trees, sharp steep bunker banks.

The MGA picture is more dramatic.

And, the lack of "framing" trees make targeting the putting surface more difficult.

The kick plate also seems more pronounced in the MGA picture

[Phil Benedict]

What's the point of the 3 bunkers crossing the fairway at what appears to be at least 20 yards short of the green?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Phil,

To avoid run-up shots.

They force aerial carries

[Steve Lapper]

As I've written here multiple times, this hole is, IMO, as good as any Redan on this side of the pond. It is strategic, dramatic, eminently fair, and most importantly, wonderful fun! Great shots here demand high skill and creativity. The hole plays truer than most redans and the approaches must use the topography to get anything close to any hole position.

 The high right-side "kicker" bank has real contour and will assist any shot bounced well short of them. Conversely, they'll reject anything too stiff or hot, which would  leave one facing a damnable chip down into the runway or onto the narrow slotted tongue top.

There is a small gully midway down the back runway that is a frequent pin siite and undeniably the most user-friendly place for the pin. To this location, I've seen one ace and many birdies here with shots that hit the front tongue, jump up and just trickle over the slope's edge before accelerating into this gully. The hardest pin is one up top just set back from the greens front edge.

I am certainly of the opinion that Somerset Hills has by and far Tilly's greatest selection of par 3s. The Redan is really just one of a marvelous four.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Slapper,

It's a great hole and the collection or par 3's at SH is pretty strong.

Now that I think of it, you bear an uncanny resemblance to one of the guys who sat in the booth next to me at the Chinese restaurant.

Could Somerset Hills have been a or "the" topic of your Tillinghast discussions ?

[Ed Oden]

Now I love Somerset Hills and think the 2nd hole is absolutely fantastic.  But, being entirely truthful, I don't think it plays much like a redan.  It is shorter, slightly downhill and isn't as firm or conducive to the ground game as most other redans I have seen.  At the end of the day, this is really an aerial hole all the way.  So I'm not sure it embodies redan ideals quite as well as some others.  That doesn't mean, however, that it isn't a great hole nonetheless and one of my favorites.

[Joel_Stewart]

Made a 2 here the first time I played it.  Good memory. 

It's harder than most redans that I have played, very difficult to hit and hold the green.

[Steve Lapper]

Slapper,

It's a great hole and the collection or par 3's at SH is pretty strong.

Now that I think of it, you bear an uncanny resemblance to one of the guys who sat in the booth next to me at the Chinese restaurant.

Could Somerset Hills have been a or "the" topic of your Tillinghast discussions ?

Pat,

  You must have me confused with Fu Man Who.....a talented and worthy architect whose appearances in the Northeast are causing stirrings. Additionally, I'd never travel great distances to compete with you for any establishment's supply of green tea!

   Had I been there, a discussion of Somerset Hills would sound grossly out-of-place. That venue should only be discussed in 4 star restaurants!!

Ed,

    With all due respect, I think you are quite a bit off in your declaration that this hole plays "not much like a redan." At 145-165, it is hardly a shorter hole than its peers. It is downhill, but so are the likes of those at NGLA, The Creek, Yale, and even ever-so-slightly Yeamans. The conditioning of the turf has often been erratic in the past, but the club has made great strides over the past two years with a new super and a decided bias towards firming up all the approaches. It's tough to keep things really firm around these parts with our weather patterns of rain, rain and more rain, but the course is now in terrific shape.

    Finally, Joel drives home the point that you have to have a delicate touch and definitely use the kicker to keep balls on the green. That's hardly evidence to any argument that the hole is an "aerial hole all the way." Every time I play it and the pin is anyway in the back 2/3 of the green, I try to keep my trajectory much lower and hit right in front of the green to bounce/roll it onto the green's surface.

   What we all agree to is that the hole is terrific, exciting and pure fun.

[Ed Oden]

Steve, I suspect that most of my posts are quite a bit off, so no due respect is expected and no offense is taken.  Again, we both agree that the hole is a great one and only differ on the degree to which it "plays" like a redan.  So, with that in mind, I will offer my reasoning in a bit more detail.  But, before I do, I need to tweak my statement that the 2nd at Somerset Hills doesn't play much like a redan.  That really isn't what I am trying to convey.  Rather, what I mean is that I don't believe it embodies the redan concept of presenting multiple playing options as well as certain other redans I have seen (for what it's worth, I've played probably 10 or so, but not The Creek or Yale from those you mention).  Part of that is distance.  Every other redan I have seen plays in the 190 yard range or longer.  To me that is a critical distinction since the added length means a longer iron which makes stopping a ball on a green running away from you by an aerial route a tough nut to crack and engenders the viability of the ground game option.  The lack of length at Somerset Hills #2 works like a nutcracker for an aerial attack, which implicitly deemphasizes the ground game.  And while I wholeheartedly agree that the new super has done a tremendous job firming up the course, there is only so much he can do to emphasize the ground option given prevailing weather conditions and the significant uphill slope before the green.  If we are ever fortunate enough to  play Somerset Hills together, I will take great pleasure watching you play a running shot short of the green and will give you a big pat on the back if you pull it off.  However, when I step up to the tee with a 7 or 8 iron in hand, I doubt I will ever consider any shot other than trying to land my ball 20 feet or so short right of the hole.  I have a far better chance of keeping my ball on the green and getting close to the hole that way.  In that respect, Somerset Hills is different from other redans I have played since it doesn't really make me consider the ground option.  And that is why I say that it doesn't embody redan playing concepts to the same degree as some other versions.  Again, none of that detracts from my opinion of the hole (which is very challenging and one of my favorite par 3s anywhere) or the course (which is truly special).

[DBE]

During my years working for the USGA I was fortunate to have belonged to THE Somerset Hills CC.  With the exception of the (new in the 1970's) 10th green, the course probably has the best set of greens Tillinghast ever designed on one course.  The second green though, had sunk in the rear portion (1987-1997 were the years with which I'm familiar). Frank Hannigan, who was involved in the Tillinghast book a few years ago and also a member while working for the USGA and during his retirement when he still lived in the Bernardsville area, always wanted the club to raise the rear portion to provide for more hole placements. Has the rear portion been raised?   

My understanding is that Tom Doak's group has been retained to do some work.  For the Curtis Cup in 1990, PJ Boatwright narrowed only one side of several fairways that resulted in some awkward tee shots. A green chairman in the early 1990's also reclaimed tees on the eighth  and 13th holes that had been abandoned and extended some putting green perimeters to their original locations. 

Somerset Hills is a wonderful place.  For more than a year, I didn't know the club had carts until the entire fleet of 12 were used for the member-guest.  And of course, only white attire allowed on the grass tennis courts!

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