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Sam Morrow

Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« on: May 23, 2011, 05:47:59 PM »
I've been invited to play and wanted to know about the course. I don't want this to turn into a Donald Trump hate fest, I just want to know about the good, bad, and ugly of the course.

George Pazin

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 05:49:25 PM »
Search Pine Hill in the archives, there should be plenty.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rory Connaughton

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 06:16:47 PM »
The routing is not ideal as there are some big gaps between greens but it is definitely an enjoyable day of golf.

mike_malone

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 06:33:10 PM »
 Hit it in the fairway or accept your penalty.
AKA Mayday

Wade Whitehead

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 08:20:02 PM »
Very penal course with some very good holes.

Quite a setting, too.

WW

Tom Yost

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 08:21:09 PM »
I understand it's better than Pine Valley.


Brian Potash

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 08:25:03 PM »
I understand it's better than Pine Valley.



 ;D ;D ;D

Tom ORourke

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 08:51:59 PM »
Very tough course. If you miss a fairway you can roll into some very deep woods and a chip out is all you have. Deep traps, greens with some good slopes, very rough rough. You need to play the right tees unless you can really move it off the tee. There are some really strong par 4s that are not easy to reach in two. I think the 10th is one of the prettiest inland holes around. It is not PV but it is a strong test of golf. Not unfair, but don't start hitting going hooks or you will be out of balls quickly. Not a course for the high handicap. And I know at one point a few years ago their membership was 200 men and 9 women as it is not a bounce it up kind of course.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 09:35:12 PM »
Here's Joe Logan's review when the course opened:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/golf/course_guide/6238342.html


I remember there was a big buzz about the course then as a potential GD Best New Public contender. Never happened.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Sam Morrow

Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 12:25:24 AM »
So if I hit it short and crooked there could be a problem? ;D

Joe Bausch

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 02:05:08 PM »
Sam, a few years back I did a photo tour of what was then still known as Pine Hill.  Since this time a few changes have been made to the course, but I think my pics and commentary are still timely.  Here is what I started a thread with back in 2008, I think:


I've seen that Pine Hill has been discussed here many times (quite a polarizing layout it seems with the treehouse), but nowhere was I able to find pictures.  So last Thursday, while it was raining at Bethpage, it was raining in Philly too and I had a very nice outing to attend for the Katherine Brower Foundation.  Thankfully it only drizzled on a few holes, although a point-and-shoot camera has a heckuva time focusing in the rain, so you'll notice fuzziness on a couple of the shots.

PH is a Tom Fazio layout that I guess is about 10 years old now.  I played it many times in the early years when it was public, then it went private.  But like handful of private courses in our area these days, they are taking limited public play again if you are willing to cough up about one bill.

There was a long thread on PH a few years back that is here:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,15797.0/

And here is Joe Logan's review of the place from the Inky:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/golf/course_guide/6238342.html

The back nine at PH is nicely walkable, albeit quite hilly in spots, while the front nine has a sequence of holes that are, well, quite stretched out on the property.  Here is the routing:



The opening hole is a 524 yard par 5 with a blind tee shot to a fairway that cants hard to the left.  This hole is a simple start and your better players will probably expect to make birdie.









The 2nd is a 175 yard par 3 that plays a bit uphill.







The 3rd is the No 2 handicap, a 467 yard par 4 with elevated tees:



The green slopes quite severely from right to left, as these pics sort of show:





The 4th hole is a 437 yard par 4 that runs a bit downhill with a lateral area short and right of the green:







The par 3 5th can play out to 210 yards from the tips:







The par 4 6th is 410 yards long and really sort of plays as a slight dogleg right.  A tee shot in the left part of the FW is best, but a very large and fairly deep bunker is out that way:









A 577 yard par 5 awaits at the 7th.  It doglegs left late.  I really like this hole.









The par 3 8th can be stretched out to 205 yards.  The first photo below is from the middle tee box.  And I have no idea why those evergreens have been allowed to grow in front of the hazard short of the green!



Some of the greens might be considered a bit boring at PH, but this is not one of them IMO.



No 9 returns you to the clubhouse and is a uphill par 4 playing a very healthy 448 from the tips.  And it is very uphill at the end with a skyline green:







The 10th is a 477 yard par 4 that plays from a very elevated tee:









A 408 yard slight dogleg left par 4 awaits at the 11th, with a slightly uphill and semi-blind tee shot:







I guess you could call the par 4 12th (399 yards) a bottleneck hole as the tee shot must be placed precisely in order to see the flag through a chute of trees:







On a clear day the Philly skyline is visible on the 170 yard par 3 13th that for me is the least interesting hole on a back nine I like very much.  The green is very deep here, I'm guessing as much as 40 yards.





The 14th is another par 5 (534 yards) that I really like.  The ideal line off the tee is middle left off the FW, but it is easy to bail right, but that leaves a more difficult 2nd shot with water in play left on the 2nd shot:











The 15th is a hard dogleg right par 4 where the standard play is to keep a drive out left, the more aggressive line to carry some of the trees at the corner of the dogleg:









A very downhill par 3 awaits at the 16th hole (203 yards):







By far my favorite hole at PH is the 17th, a dogleg left par 4 (453 yards; and the No 1 handicap hole), with my only minor suggestion would be doing a little pruning of the trees right so a FW bunker is not so obscured:









The 18th at PH also takes you back up the hill to the clubhouse, a slight dogleg left par 4 (406 yards) with another skyline green:









@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Dan Boerger

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2011, 02:11:34 PM »
I played it in a GAP match a few years back. Really a stern and good test of golf, but not sure I would like a steady does of it (perhaps that speaks to the state of my game more than this course). Because of the camber of the fairways, some are literally half their size. Great pics Joe (as usual).
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Bruce Katona

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 02:14:43 PM »
On your way from #2 green to #3 tee there is a brief cast ride and you will cross over a very small stream.  Look down to see if you can spot any fish.  This is the only native trout stream in all of southern NJ.  The cost to renovate and maintain this stream channel for the number of fish populating this small brrok was simply silly.  Super models make less for shows on the Paris runway than it cost to keep these fish alive.

mike_malone

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 02:24:12 PM »
 Sam,

   If you go 15 minutes down the road and play Scotland Run also , we would be interested in your comparisons.


    BTW how come this isn't Trump National South Jersey?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 02:28:27 PM by mike_malone »
AKA Mayday

Michael Dugger

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 02:35:52 PM »
I like the looks of this course a lot.

Rolling hills, natural looking hazards. 

Nothing gaudy or out of touch with nature.

Uphill, sidehill and downhill holes. 


What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Sam Morrow

Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2011, 12:17:34 AM »
Sam,

   If you go 15 minutes down the road and play Scotland Run also , we would be interested in your comparisons.


    BTW how come this isn't Trump National South Jersey?

I was thinking about seeing if the GCA guys wanted to get a foursome or two on the morning of Saturday June 25. I have to play early that morning and was thinking Scotland Run, Inniscrone, or maybe going to Wilmington and seeing Rock Manor.

Jason Walker

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2011, 12:52:37 AM »
Sam-
I'm not keen on getting sucked into discussions re: Trump Philly but here goes my latest GCA opinion....

First, the keyboard on an iPad sucks.

You will have a great day.  The hospitality and staff there are excellent.  The clubhouse has been completely, 100% redone.  It's consistent with other Trump golf properties.

The course is difficult and your enjoyment is dependent upon you playing the correct tees.  If your handicap is greater than 9 play the blue tees at minimum and don't feel bad about moving up.  This course is classic Fazio, some straight out of the playbook. 

You'll hear then course is too tight.  It's not.  Some holes are narrow,  but many others rely on visual itimidation.  Holes 3, 6, 7, 12, and 17 all appear much narrower than they are.    There has been significant tree removal and on many of the "tight " holes if you are sideways you will more than likely have some option if youre off the fairway.  Certainly not a shot at the green, but perhaps something better than a sideways hack out .

You'll hear the greens are boring and flat.  They're not.  Holes 1, 2, 5. 8, 10, 13, 14, and 16 present interesting greens.  Some greens, such as 4, rely on the slope of the hill to fool the golfer.  Others, such and 3 and 12, have very deceptive front to back elements that create options.

You'll hear the golf is devoid of strategy.  It's not.  Holes 1, 6, 7, 11, 12, 14, 17 all present interesting strategic options.

The golf course used to be soft.  Now that it is a private club it's maintained in a fast and firm fashion.

All in all, Rory said it best--you'll enjoy yourself.  Play the right tees and bring your A game.


Cory Lewis

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2011, 07:49:25 AM »
I was thinking about seeing if the GCA guys wanted to get a foursome or two on the morning of Saturday June 25. I have to play early that morning and was thinking Scotland Run, Inniscrone, or maybe going to Wilmington and seeing Rock Manor.

Play Scotland Run, you will not regret it.
Instagram: @2000golfcourses
http://2000golfcourses.blogspot.com

Sam Morrow

Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2011, 09:13:59 AM »
I was thinking about seeing if the GCA guys wanted to get a foursome or two on the morning of Saturday June 25. I have to play early that morning and was thinking Scotland Run, Inniscrone, or maybe going to Wilmington and seeing Rock Manor.

Play Scotland Run, you will not regret it.

Cory is my expert for that area. I'm thinking GCA mini outing.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2011, 09:49:56 AM »
I was thinking about seeing if the GCA guys wanted to get a foursome or two on the morning of Saturday June 25. I have to play early that morning and was thinking Scotland Run, Inniscrone, or maybe going to Wilmington and seeing Rock Manor.

Play Scotland Run, you will not regret it.

Cory is my expert for that area. I'm thinking GCA mini outing.

SR photo album:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/ScotlandRun/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Sam Morrow

Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2011, 10:19:56 AM »
Do you endorse the idea Joe?

Joe Bausch

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2011, 10:23:25 AM »
Do you endorse the idea Joe?

I do like SR (and hope they have recovered from a tough summer last year), even if their rates are higher than Inniscrone (which I like a bit more!).
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

mike_malone

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2011, 10:39:19 AM »
 Sam,

   My sense is that the Philly gca guys are smart cost/value players. So they usually play SR off season.
AKA Mayday

Tom Yost

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Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2011, 12:50:24 PM »
I like the looks of this course a lot.

Rolling hills, natural looking hazards. 

Nothing gaudy or out of touch with nature.

Uphill, sidehill and downhill holes. 


I agree.  It does seem to fit the land pretty well and looked interesting to me at least from the photos.  Seems to be a lot of little pine trees growing in those bunker islands? Those will become an annoyance if left to grow will they not?

Sam Morrow

Re: Tell Me About Trump National Philadelphia
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2011, 10:02:28 AM »
What would be a good value course in the area to play in June?