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Mark Saltzman

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On a cold February day I decided that I should take a trip sometime this summer.  After several additions to the trip, I'm now looking at a 23ish day trip across 4 or 5 states.  Any advice on the feasibility of this trip (and any other info) is greatly appreciated.

Day 1: Fly Toronto to Denver (arrive 10 am) - golf Sanctuary
Day 2-4: Golf around Denver, not sure where yet (maybe just travel day 4)
Day 5-6: SHGC
Day 7-9: 5th Major at Dismal River!
Day 10-11: Prairie Club
Day 12: Awarii Dunes
Day 13: Wild Horse (and maybe PM round at Bayside)
Day 14-15: Ballyneal
Day 16: Drive to Denver and Flight to Spokane
Day 17-20: Golf at Idaho Club, Black Rock, Palouse Ridge, Circling Raven, day trip to Wine Valley and (not a call for access!, but does anyone know how open RCCC is to outside play? Given glowing reviews here on GCA, it must be worth the 3 hr drive in to Montana to see it)... and I know Gozzer Ranch should be played in CDA, but access is an issue with this one as well.
Day 21: Flight to Seattle and golf somewhere?
Day 22: 36 at Chambers Bay
Day 23: Flight to Toronto

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 01:06:38 AM by Mark Saltzman »

Matt_Ward

Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 03:29:10 AM »
Mark:

Want to play a solid public layout in the Colorado Springs area -- then play Four Mile Ranch. Well done by Jim Engh and frankly I like it more than Sanctuary which is more of an engineering feat with a few holes of note.

Missing the Utah area is also a big void that you should consider -- better than a number of courses you listed.

Andy Troeger

Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 06:02:53 AM »
Mark,
Your title is a bit misleading--there won't be that many mountains along that route!

There are quite a few good options around Denver. If you can gain access, my favorite private clubs not mentioned are Castle Pines, Colorado GC, Cherry Hills, and Ravenna. Pradera is also very good. I would guess Ravenna might be more do-able than the others. On the public side there's still a lot of good stuff--my favorite is probably Bear Dance. I haven't seen CommonGround yet, and others can chime in that have played more of the options more regularly. If you want the mountain experience, go west from Denver for a couple of days and see some combination of Lakota Canyon, Red Sky, Redlands Mesa, and a few others that I haven't seen. Four Mile Ranch is good too, but unlike Matt I'm not as high on it as some of Engh's other work. Its still very good though especially for the price. If you go that way Cougar Canyon in Trinidad is good too, but that adds more driving again. Definitely keep Sanctuary; you'll enjoy seeing how Engh's style evolved from there to Black Rock which I do think is better. Sanctuary is a bit of a thrill ride, but still has a number of good holes. Just hit it straight--its not long.

Gozzer Ranch and Rock Creek are absolutely worth the effort if you can swing them. I liked Black Rock a lot and Idaho Club is a unique experience although really tough. Circling Raven was very enjoyable as well although not in the league of those others.

The issue with Utah is that pretty much everything you would want to see is private--if you can gain access to the clubs in the Park City area it would be a fun detour, but I'm not sure of their policies. If you want good public golf swing south for a couple days to New Mexico and add Paa-Ko Ridge and Black Mesa.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2011, 08:09:17 AM »
Mark:

Want to play a solid public layout in the Colorado Springs area -- then play Four Mile Ranch. Well done by Jim Engh and frankly I like it more than Sanctuary which is more of an engineering feat with a few holes of note.

Missing the Utah area is also a big void that you should consider -- better than a number of courses you listed.

Matt,

I am scheduled to visit Utah later in the summer.  The details are still fuzzy, but I think I will be spending 4 days around Park City and 3 days in Jackson Hole, WY.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2011, 08:25:04 AM »
Mark,

Are you by yourself or do you have a group with you?  The reason I ask is because I bought the rights for four to play RCCC and may be able to work something out.  
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 08:28:59 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2011, 10:16:43 AM »
Mark,

I would second what Andy has said in general.

Both Gozzer and RCCC are definitely worth it.  In the Spokane area Circling Raven and Palouse Ridge should be the lowest on your list if you need to sacrifice a round or two to accomadate playing RCCC as it will be a 24 hour side trip.

I would rank them like so:
1)  RCCC
2)  Wine Valley
3)  Gozzer
4)  Black Rock
5)  Idaho Club
6)  Circling Raven
7)  Palouse Ridge

Matt_Ward

Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2011, 10:20:59 AM »
Mark:

Jackson Hole is more about the view than anything else. Have heard good things about the new Kidd course -- but that's in Idaho via the pass leading out of WY.

Andy is spot on -- your trail doesn't really do the mountains. Your best bet would be to focus on Colorado and Nebraska because it will save you drive times and you will play a top tier array of other courses.

In regards to UT -- yes, many are private and I thoroughly recommend Red Ledges in Heber City, UT. One of the 2-3 best Nicklaus courses I have played out of the 75+. Just a great locale to be in with Park City during the summer -- worth playing Glenwild and Victory Ranch as well -- Promontory is also quite good but a bit less than the ones mentioned.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2011, 10:44:06 AM »
Contact JK at once as this is a very generous offer (depending on how many people you are with). Gozzer would be #2 on my list, but it is a challenge to get on. That is quite a trip. I am assuming you are single with no kids ;D.
Mr Hurricane

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 12:14:04 PM »
Mark,
Your title is a bit misleading--there won't be that many mountains along that route!
 

Apologies from a Canadian.  I wasn't sure what to call the area (I know it's not west, nor is it the mid-west) and a quick Wikipedia search said all of the States I am visiting are in the mountain region (except Washington).

John,

Thank you for posting, PM sent.

Jim,

you are 100% correct - single, no kids, and working for myself!


One of my biggest concerns is that I have 15 straight days of golf.  I want to walk as many as possible and fully expect at least 36 a day at Ballyneal and Sand Hills and probably a few of the days in Denver.  Given the terrain of these courses, is that doable?  Should I be scheduling some days off?  Dare I ask, but I know BN is walking only, but how many of the other courses offer carts for a second go around (or maybe even the first...?)

Thanks again,

Mark

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 12:17:51 PM »
I'd start hitting the treadmill, clubs and all!

Sounds like a fantastic trip, Mark.
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 12:22:06 PM »
Mark,

All of the courses on your list in the Spokane area offer carts.  And at places like Black Rock, Gozzer, Circling Raven it'll make the day a whole lot easier to use them.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 12:32:15 PM »
Mark,

Man that is one heckuva golf trip! You'll be glad to know that you do have the option to take one of these at the 5th Major.



Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2011, 01:31:18 PM »
Mark -- This sounds like a hell of a trip. Do you have most of your times booked at the moment? I'd assume maybe you have SH, Prairie Club and Ballyneal squared away, but not the public offerings.

If so, I might suggest it be a bit easier to head straight to Ogallala when you arrive and play Bayside that first day. Then, Awarii Dunes, WH before hitting the big boys. Move your BN trip up a day or two to play it after Prairie Club and then hub in Denver for a few days BEFORE your flight out rather than when you get in. It might save you some on the gas side of things as well.

A ton of fun stuff around Denver and you should take a trip up the Breckenridge, etc. even if it's not to golf but just enjoy the weather.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2011, 01:40:22 PM »
Mark,

All of the courses on your list in the Spokane area offer carts.  And at places like Black Rock, Gozzer, Circling Raven it'll make the day a whole lot easier to use them.

Palouse Ridge is primarily a cart ball course.

walkinggolfer.com has walkability ratings for many of these courses. Check it out.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2011, 01:48:41 PM »
Mark,

All of the courses on your list in the Spokane area offer carts.  And at places like Black Rock, Gozzer, Circling Raven it'll make the day a whole lot easier to use them.

Palouse Ridge is primarily a cart ball course.

walkinggolfer.com has walkability ratings for many of these courses. Check it out.


That may be, but the aforementioned are a tougher walk than Palouse Ridge...

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2011, 01:50:00 PM »
While in the Denver area, I highly recommend playing Murphy Creek in Aurora. The muni course hosted the 2008 Pub Links and is a formidable test.

https://www.auroragov.org/AuroraGov/Departments/ParksRecreationAndOpenSpace/AuroraGolf/Murphy_Creek/index.htm?ssSourceNodeId=824&ssSourceSiteId=621

I haven't personally played CommonGround but it has received high praise from many.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Andy Troeger

Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2011, 03:29:59 PM »
Mark,
No worries--happy to provide comments. The states are mountainous other than Nebraska and its a great itinerary regardless of what you call it. Most of the courses on the latter part of your itinerary at the very least offer carts and are generally tough walks. Rock Creek is walkable but definitely not flat.

You are a tougher man than I am--I found out last year that my back was willing to take 8.5 rounds in 6 days, but the last 1.5 rounds on days 6/7 were not so pleasant on a trip to GA/TN/AL last year with lots of golf and driving. Was still worth it and I'd still do it again though!  :)

Matt,
I'm playing Red Ledges and Glenwild in late June--I've played the two Promontory courses and will be interested to see more of the Park City area.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 05:30:32 PM »
While in the Denver area, I highly recommend playing Murphy Creek in Aurora. The muni course hosted the 2008 Pub Links and is a formidable test.

https://www.auroragov.org/AuroraGov/Departments/ParksRecreationAndOpenSpace/AuroraGolf/Murphy_Creek/index.htm?ssSourceNodeId=824&ssSourceSiteId=621

I haven't personally played CommonGround but it has received high praise from many.

I can second Murphy Creek, very challenging course and also very close to the airport on the prairie.  But if you want a real "mountain experience" just south of Denver(about 20 mins) then play the Golf Club at Bear Dance. Mountains, woods, creeks and great views of Pike's Peak.

http://www.beardancegolf.com/
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Matt_Ward

Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2011, 05:56:48 PM »
Andy:

Both of the courses you mentioned in UT are absolutely stellar in my mind.

I personally believe Red Ledges gets lost in the sauce because UT is often overlooked for quality golf and no doubt the short playing season in and around the greater Park City area has a lot to do with that. FYI -- the starting hole at Red Ledges is on my personal short list for great opening holes. Just standing on the back tee box and seeing what lies ahead and what you have do to execute as a player is truly inspirational for lies ahead. Enjoy. Look forward to your comments.

Kalen:

If one can walk Bethpage Black the walk at Palouse Ridge is quite doable and frankly easier.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2011, 06:00:03 PM »


Kalen:

If one can walk Bethpage Black the walk at Palouse Ridge is quite doable and frankly easier.

I've never played Bethpage, but I did walk Palouse and while certainly tiring, it was nowhere close as hilly/bad as many other courses I've played.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2011, 08:15:20 PM »
...
Kalen:

If one can walk Bethpage Black the walk at Palouse Ridge is quite doable and frankly easier.

Matt persists in this even though many posters have noted he is all wet about the Bethpage Black walk.
 ::)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kevin Lynch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2011, 08:55:19 AM »
...
Kalen:

If one can walk Bethpage Black the walk at Palouse Ridge is quite doable and frankly easier.

Matt persists in this even though many posters have noted he is all wet about the Bethpage Black walk.
 ::)

Yeah, I may have to ask Matt how many courses he has played for him to claim such a "National Tough Walk Ranking" for Bethpage.
 ;D  I think he may be guilty of "sweeping generalizations."

I can name 5 or 6 walks in the "flat farmlands of upstate New York" that are much tougher than Bethpage. 

Matt - having a little fun.   ;)   Sorry - please return to the topic at hand.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2011, 07:19:23 PM »
Gentlemen, thank you for all of the suggestions.  

Tony, thank you for suggesting I hub in Denver at the end of the first portion of the trip.  I don't know why I never considered that, but it makes much more sense.

The trip now looks as follows, and if there are any more suggestions, please post or PM as all of this information is very helpful.


Day 1: Fly Toronto to Denver (arrive 10 am) - golf Sanctuary
Day 2: Bayside
Day 3-4: Prairie Club
Day 5-6: Sand Hills Golf Club
Day 7-9: 5th Major at Dismal River!
Day 10: Awarii Dunes
Day 11: Wild Horse
Day 12-13: Ballyneal
Day 14-16: Golf around Denver (right now thinking Four Mile Ranch, Commonground, Murphy Creek and Bear Dance) and Flight to Spokane
Day 17: Gozzer Ranch
Day 18: Rock Creek Cattle Co
Day 19: Black Rock
Day 20: Wine Valley
Day 21: AM flight to Seattle
Day 22: Chambers Bay
Day 23: Golf in Seattle (Maybe Sahalee or Members Club, if possible?)
Day 24: Flight Home
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 10:23:54 PM by Mark Saltzman »

Andy Troeger

Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2011, 07:27:13 PM »
Mark,
Looks like a pretty good itinerary. I'd still consider playing The Idaho Club if you can fit it in--it might not be in the top half of the trip given how strong your lineup is, but it might be worth skipping an extra day in Seattle or Denver. I have it ahead of Bear Dance, Four Mile Ranch, and Sahalee, for example. You're not going wrong with any of those, however.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Planning a Trip to the US Mountain Region - Any Advice?
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2011, 08:55:08 PM »
Mark,

As an additional note,

On day 19, you could easily do a Black Rock/Circling Raven combo as CR is only 20 minutes away from Black Rock.  Of course that would be given that the 2nd course at Black Rock isn't yet open.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 08:57:10 PM by Kalen Braley »