What's the best use of

[Patrick_Mucci]

Various types of water features at a green in terms of fronting, flanking and surrounding  
A pond ?  
A stream ?
A lake ?  
An ocean ?

# 11, 2 and 13 at ANGA would seem to present a great use of a stream/pond as flanking and fronting features.
 # 11 at Merion would also present good use of a flanking feature.

Will modern day restrictions prevent highly strategic streams from fronting and flanking greens ?

[Carl Johnson]

In my opinion, "none."  It's a matter of personal taste for me.  Of course, tastes differ.

[JESII]

Pat,

I think angled is preferred, then flanking, then fronting.

Angled would be something like the creek on 12 at Augusta an 13 after a tee shot into the bottom corner of the fairway on 13.

Flanking would be the pond on 11 and the creek on tee shots on 13.

Fronting would be the creek at the green on 13 when you're high on the right side for a second or third shot.

I think angled hazards encourage decisions and execution (great things)...flanking hazards cause indecision (a good thing)...and fronting hazards mandate execution (also a good thing).

[Jim Franklin]

I like the use of a stream like at Pete Dye GC. As jim said, streams at an angle make the golfer use their minds correctly and require execution as well.

[Terry Lavin]

A serpentine creek that traverses across a golf course at interesting angles is a tremendous feature.

I'm not much of a pond guy, but I greatly prefer if they are off to one side or the other as opposed to the forced carry or the dreaded, "how much to bite off" pond holes.  Can't remember the number, but there's a pond hole at Bandon Trails where the pond is off to the right of the fairway and the green seems to roll right into the pond, with an "infinity pool" look.

Ocean holes are most often designed where the water is beyond the edge of the green or the entire hole runs parallel, but the best are the holes where the player must carry a chasm to get the ball back in play or on the green.  16 at Cypress, 8 at Pebble the little par-3 at Sheep Ranch are good examples of this.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Terry,

Do you think # 16 at ANGC might have been a better hole, (new version) if they had retained the creek and had the green hug it, ala # 13 ?

[Bill_McBride]

Terry,

Do you think # 16 at ANGC might have been a better hole, (new version) if they had retained the creek and had the green hug it, ala # 13 ?

I think a creek might be in play more than the pond; has anybody been in that pond in the past few years?

(Not) Terry

[Patrick_Mucci]

Terry,

Do you think # 16 at ANGC might have been a better hole, (new version) if they had retained the creek and had the green hug it, ala # 13 ?

I think a creek might be in play more than the pond; has anybody been in that pond in the past few years?


Yes, a number of players found that pond on their approach.
It tends to come more into play on Sunday.
(Not) Terry

[jonathan_becker]

A serpentine creek that traverses across a golf course at interesting angles is a tremendous feature.

One of my favorites is the creek used on holes 5 and 6 at The Golf Club.  It comes into play off the tee and for the approach shots on both holes. 

My favorite part is how on #6 the creek comes into play with a miss left off the tee and also comes into play with a miss short and right up by the green. 

[mike_malone]

 I think a stream in back is underutilized. It provides interesting strategy.

[Mark McKeever]

Im trying to remember the number of hte hole at Kennett Square CC that has a creek right behind the green of a downhill par 3.  Great hole.

Mark

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think a stream in back is underutilized. It provides interesting strategy.

# 6 at WFW and a number of courses have that feature.

When you know it's there, I think it's a more effective feature.

When you don't know it's there, it can be overly penal to an aggressive approach to a back hole location

[George Freeman]

Can't remember the number, but there's a pond hole at Bandon Trails where the pond is off to the right of the fairway and the green seems to roll right into the pond, with an "infinity pool" look.

Terry - I can't tell if you liked the hole/pond or not?