evaluate this hole for me

[Joe Bausch]

Seeing Mayday's thread today asking about the importance of the first hole for a golf course, it catalyzed me to present the first hole of a course I played recently.  If even 5 people on GCA.com have played this course, I'd be surprised. 

It is a par 4 playing 404 yards on a course that plays about 6400 yards at par 70 (70.0/124).  Let's start with a Google aerial of the hole:



The diagonal creek only in play for a duffed shot to this split, elevated fairway.



From just before the foot bridge:



From the beginning of the fw:



A good drive to the upper left fw leaves a view like this back to the tees:



And this is about 135 yards from the green, with a small tree in the line to the green:



My tee shot was in the left part of the lower right fw, leaving a view like this from 130 yards out:



The right fw runs out at the tree, and this pic is taken just in front of the tree, maybe 75 yards out:



From the bunker short and right of the green:



From the mounding left of the green:



From just over the green:

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

I think it looks neat.

Only thing I would change is mow the grass at fairway height to connect the lower bottom piece near the two bunkers to connect to the upper part of the fairway before it splits in 2.

[astavrides]

not only have i played it, but it was the course where I kept my handicap for 2 years--not that I ever played it more than once or twice a year.  so we're up to 2 people on GCA who have played it.  considering its location, I'd be surprised if less than 10 GCA'ers have played it.
quirky course.  tough.  too many trees, not good enough condition, although by those pics you took, it looks to be in pretty good condition.
i don't have any comments about #1 right now.

[PCCraig]

I'm not sure I see any reason to hit it to the lower, right-hand fairway? Seems to me that the player has more risk as the tee shot has to deal with fairway bunkers, water, and has to be placed in a certain strip so that you're not blocked out by trees....all so you have to hit over a greenside bunker with little green to work with?

I think I would just drive it out left/long, then take my chances with a longer shot but a clear path to the pin?

[J Sadowsky]

It reminds me very much (but is not) the 1st hole at Augustine Golf Club in Stafford.  The most critical difference is that Augustine had you teeing off more straightaway rather than from an angle.  I liked the hole quite a bit, but thought the tree was too penal (there were already wetlands splitting the fairways).

[Joe Bausch]

There will certainly be at least two GCAers to have played it:  you and Cirba!  Heck, probably three with Mayday.

Note for those playing along at home, this is a re-do of the original opening hole.  The original hole teed off from the same place and in the same general direction and was also a par 4, but was very different from that on the ground now.  

Oh, I won't say whether this course is in "Pennsy" or not, b/c if it was, you-know-who would come and thread jack about how lousy public golf is in the Keystone State.   

[Matthew Petersen]

It has a little too much going on for my taste for a first hole. The divided fairway and tree blocking the green and both features I have no problem with in general, but seem quite demanding on #1.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I'm not sure I see any reason to hit it to the lower, right-hand fairway? Seems to me that the player has more risk as the tee shot has to deal with fairway bunkers, water, and has to be placed in a certain strip so that you're not blocked out by trees....all so you have to hit over a greenside bunker with little green to work with?

I think I would just drive it out left/long, then take my chances with a longer shot but a clear path to the pin?

Pat - Strange you said that because I looked at it quickly and thought I cant see much point in the left/higher side....I would take the right hand lower route, but I am a short hitter. Overall it looks as if trees overhang to much and is in need of a prune.

[Shane Wright]

I think it looks like a really good hole.  There is plenty of strategy and at 404 yards it makes you think off the tee.  With that green complex, I'm going left fairway all day long.  But I could easily see where someone playing it for the first time would go right which teases you and then bites your nerves with the 2nd shot over the bunkers and a tough angle.

But going for the left fairway with a slight miss right looks like jail, especially with a back right pin. 

Now, the course name please?

I'd like to play this hole.

[Joe Bausch]

It has a little too much going on for my taste for a first hole. The divided fairway and tree blocking the green and both features I have no problem with in general, but seem quite demanding on #1.

I agree that it is a pretty 'busy' first hole.  Would it make say a better tenth hole?  Perhaps.  But flipping the nines on this rather curiously routed course results in the first and eighteenth holes being par 3's!

[Cristian]

A penal hole, disguised as being heroic...

[Garland Bayley]

Lousy hole. Looks like the architect thinks everyone plays the proper tees and hits drives, and approaches to the proper places. Has a vertical hazard (tree) in the center. I'm guessing it was a better opener before it was redone.

[RSLivingston_III]

A penal hole, disguised as being heroic...

+1

Is this by chance an Art Hills course?

[Joe Bausch]

A penal hole, disguised as being heroic...

+1

Is this by chance an Art Hills course?

No.

The Arthur Hiils White Clay Creek is nearby and I'm not sure there is a single hole at WCC better than this one.  YMMV.

[Jay Flemma]

It reminds me very much (but is not) the 1st hole at Augustine Golf Club in Stafford.  The most critical difference is that Augustine had you teeing off more straightaway rather than from an angle.  I liked the hole quite a bit, but thought the tree was too penal (there were already wetlands splitting the fairways).

I agree...I know it isn't Augustine, but it briefly reminded me of the first there.

I hate the tree:)

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

vrooom, vrooom, vrooom, crashing timber, clean up the branches and play away.

[Chris Buie]

Interesting hole.  I wonder what percentage of players could choose and hit one of the optional fairways with regularity? Overall, I would guess a very small percentage.  I truly do not understand archies always setting up tee shots that get hit less than half the time.  I would suggest to architects that if you are going to make a demand on the tee which the majority of golfers can not meet then make the recovery areas interesting.
That is not to belittle this hole.  It is nice to see a variation in design.  I know nothing about the course so I have no desire to disparage it.  This just a cursory impression - and response to the question.

[Joe Bausch]

vrooom, vrooom, vrooom, crashing timber, clean up the branches and play away.

For a guy that really dislikes trees, and this course is over-treed IMO, but this hole is really not so bad in that regard.
I guess I would like to see the trees on the right thinned or removed as from the tee you really have little idea where the green is.

[Chris_Clouser]

Honestly, the green looks ok to me, but other than that it looks like a hot mess.   There is nothing there that appeals to me from a strategic or aesthetic perspective. 

[Joe Bausch]

Honestly, the green looks ok to me, but other than that it looks like a hot mess.   There is nothing there that appeals to me from a strategic or aesthetic perspective. 

Ok, fine. But why specifically don't you like the aesthetics or strategy?

[Tim Gavrich]

I like the architect's bold inclusion of the bend in the cart path directly on an advantageous line.  If you have to have one, why not involve it in the strategy (or strategery) of the hole?

In all honesty, it seems like an interesting golf hole and a bold opening.

[Randy Thompson]

I like the hole, a lot, not sure about the tree but at least if you don´t like it you have an alternative to play to the other fairway. i think there is iots of room in golf design for controversy and is an important factor in overall design. But I would not have had the balls do it on an opening hole just like I would avoid a blind tee shot or blind green shot on a first hole but there are no cook book recipies in golf design, only basic fundamental to break here and there should one dare!

[John Shimony]

The fairways should be connected and the fairway tree removed.  Enough challenge seems to be provided on this opening hole by what looks like a green that can play small.

[Ronald Montesano]

How far to bunkers in drive zone? It seems to me that the short hitter that plays to the front fairway (below the bunkers) has nowhere to go beyond wedge for the second shot, as the fairway narrows unmercifully. There seems to be little lay-up area and much risk to get there.

Is there just the one tee deck, as shown in your first/marked photo of the entire hole?

It runs counter to the classic (for the most part) architectural premise of a manageable, if not downright welcoming, beginning to the round. What's hole #2 like, a windmill?

~don Quijote

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I've driven by there many times...on my way to other courses but never played there. Now I know why.